Bias between state player

[CAS79]

The Shield isn't at some amazing level of standard and the game is being left behind as far as 1) identifying kids and 2) attracting kids away from the likes of AFL and other codes.

Spot on if your from South Australia over the last decade.

However the concept of of giving players a winning cultureis by far and away the most important aspect of the shield and since the 1960 at least when too many county teams existed and they play too mcuh county cricket. The academy is a some what recent concept where as the Sheffield Shield has existed for about 118 years and done the job very nicely . The kids will push their way into the team when there good enough like Pattinson, Starc and Faulkner who are all babies in cricketing terms playing for their state and Smith who's 21 made it top the test team. If they cant push an average 32 year old player out of the competition than there a long way ready from test cricket.

Behind that is the futures competition which exists to let the under 23 players know where they stand in relation to a future with their state.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

It seems to come mostly from Victorian supporters, I'm not sure if it's because they rarely have more than one player in the test side or what but it sure makes some threads hard to read.

When you see comments like "Khawaja? Haven't we got enough NSW players in the side already?" or something along those lines you just have to cringe. If they're the best player for that position, then that's all that matters. Hughes, Smith and Clarke might not be firing right now but very rarely does a NSW player not deserve his chance once he gets it.

 

[hong_kong_bond]

but very rarely does a NSW player not deserve his chance once he gets it.

And it is comments like that have non-NSW supporters (and probably particularly Victorians given the well noted rivalry between the two states), shaking their heads at the NSW bias of some posters here.

 

[krisholio14]

And it is comments like that have non-NSW supporters (and probably particularly Victorians given the well noted rivalry between the two states), shaking their heads at the NSW bias of some posters here.

Not to mention the fact that when a Vic finally does get a go, he gets 3 or four tests to prove himself before he gets dropped and is gone forever, while those from NSW......

 

[caboose]

It seems to come mostly from Victorian supporters, I'm not sure if it's because they rarely have more than one player in the test side or what but it sure makes some threads hard to read.

Totally agree.

I thought this board might get a lot better when Exhale You (probably the worst pro-Victorian there has ever been on BF) left.

But, unfortunately, there have been a whole lot of 14 and 15 year olds who have stepped in to the breach.

It makes the board nigh-on unreadable, unfortunately. It seems you have to spend almost all of your time trawling through a whole heap of irrelevant, stupid, one-eyed Victorian dirge to get to any of the decent posts.

 

[Smokey_22]

It seems to come mostly from Victorian supporters, I'm not sure if it's because they rarely have more than one player in the test side or what but it sure makes some threads hard to read.

When you see comments like "Khawaja? Haven't we got enough NSW players in the side already?" or something along those lines you just have to cringe. If they're the best player for that position, then that's all that matters. Hughes, Smith and Clarke might not be firing right now but very rarely does a NSW player not deserve his chance once he gets it.

You hit the nail on the head here.

Watch for the comments when Copeland gets his inevitable chance.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Edit: I've reopened



It's been a fun exercise, but having this just turn into another thread for a Vic v NSW slanging match seems a little pointless and well, ironic. So please don't take it down there.

We as mods are aware of it, I try to stamp it out where possible, but deleting or infracting 80% of posts in the end is no fun for anyone. Where it in particular drags a thread off topic or just turns into a 2 person debate over another boring "Our NSW/Vic player is greater than yours, you just are a biased ****)" then these issues which are for the main mostly just deleted, in the future you may get yourself a yellow card if it annoys us enough.

If you can't debate an issue effectively and overcome by state loyalties, please think twice before descending into a 3 page argument.

If anyone has issues they want to raise privately, my PM inbox has space for another 1506 messages.

 

[GameOver]

It seems to come mostly from Victorian supporters, I'm not sure if it's because they rarely have more than one player in the test side or what but it sure makes some threads hard to read.

When you see comments like "Khawaja? Haven't we got enough NSW players in the side already?" or something along those lines you just have to cringe. If they're the best player for that position, then that's all that matters. Hughes, Smith and Clarke might not be firing right now but very rarely does a NSW player not deserve his chance once he gets it.

I'm not into the whole state vs state thing however, how exactly did Hughes deserve a chance?? Was that the 17 runs he was averaging at state level this season??

 

[The Donners]

Agree, I find it bewildering. Almost made a thread on it. Having a soft-spot for players of your own state is fine, I do, most people do, but the interstate bitching, especially about NSW players in the team, is ****ing ridiculous.

Hughes wasn't selected because he's from NSW. He was selected because he put together three fantastic seasons of FC cricket, tore apart the Saffers in his first Test series, and there wasn't a single other opener pushing their case.

Klinger hardly got a look in after 2 sensational seasons. Hughes has done less than Klinger this season and Klinger is having a shocker by his standards.

Smith wasn't selected because he's from NSW. He was selected because he was the best batsman in Shield cricket last year, and he's also a dynamic (but inconsistent) bowler. Picked on promise, I didn't agree with this selection either, but it had nothing to do with being from NSW.

Best batsman in Shield cricket last year? D Hussey?

Khawaja isn't being considered because he's from NSW. He's being considered because he's the in-form batsman of the Shield competition, he's coming off a fantastic season last year, and he has a good technique and temperament.

Cosgrove has hit 8 centuries from 24 first class matches and is currently sitting 4th in the world for first class runs in 2010. D Hussey averages 55 in first class cricket and is doing it again in 2010.

It's these guys that get overlooked after multiple seasons of runs in favour of NSW players that leave people scratching their heads. That's without mentioning McDonald.

Get over it, the NSW-bias thing is a myth, NSW just have a larger population, less competition from winter sports, and a stronger grade cricket system (which may be a result of the former two factors). Get behind the bloody players, and don't bitch about which state they come from. It's pathetic.

It's clearly not a myth. Victoria have won the sheffield shield 2 years running and Siddle is the only Victorian who has been given a fair run in the test team. McDonald and White performed admirably from only 4 tests apiece and McKay played 1 test.

I get behind the players and I don't care which state they come from but does Ricky Ponting and the selectors? It's a boys club.

 

[benny_cousins]

Clarke, Smith and Hughes all seem to be Australia's golden boys at the moment. None of them deserve a spot in the side yet I can't see the selectors dropping any of them. Blokes like Katich, Watson and Hauritz all had to go to NSW to get a gig for Australia. When they throw an aging player in they use the excuse that we need experience and when they throw out of form youngsters in they say they are looking to the future. It seems to me that the Daily Telegraph is picking the side for Australia, not the selectors.

 

[ROSEMVP]

all media is based in nsw. they try to shove nsw players down our throats. aka like wwe do with john cena.

 

[Flashhh]

I am a Victorian and I think that our boys have been given a raw deal when it comes to Test selection. Yes, you might say bias, but when you look at Bushrangers who are missing/ have missed out you can easily make a case for it.

It's common knowledge that Brad Hodge had been hard done by before his retirement from the longest form of the game.
Now, we have Steve Smith in the side playing as the 6th batsmen who doesnt bowl. IMO David Hussey and Cam White would be much better options as batsman and can also bowl if required.

Everyone saying that Smith has been 'picked on potential' proves the point that NSW players are gifted baggy greens. Don't pick Smith because he is potentially good enough, pick White or Hussey because they are good enough.

 

[Cleavy]

I prefer to think of it that the Victorian lineup is one where the team as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[The_Reaper]

I am a Victorian and I think that our boys have been given a raw deal when it comes to Test selection. Yes, you might say bias, but when you look at Bushrangers who are missing/ have missed out you can easily make a case for it.

It's common knowledge that Brad Hodge had been hard done by before his retirement from the longest form of the game.
Now, we have Steve Smith in the side playing as the 6th batsmen who doesnt bowl. IMO David Hussey and Cam White would be much better options as batsman and can also bowl if required.

Everyone saying that Smith has been 'picked on potential' proves the point that NSW players are gifted baggy greens. Don't pick Smith because he is potentially good enough, pick White or Hussey because they are good enough.

White is averaging less than Smith in shield cricket this season and also for last season.
White is also an inferior bowler.
Based on shield matches over the last two years Smith is already a superior player to White.

Hussey's batting is better than Smith's but is also lower than Marsh and Khawaja and on par with Fergusons for the last few seasons.
Hussey is also 33.
It is sad but at this stage he should never play test cricket. There is no benefit in selecting him.

 

[eddiesmith]

Its a funny old argument that sees alot of complaints from some people who do it themselves the other way by just pretending that every player from a certain state is a dud

I do it a bit but unlike some dont pretend I dont

Its one of my favourite parts of a message board, people can be ridiculed for defending a player yet those who hate them for some reason are being logical and not biased at all, its all a part of the fun

 

[dan warna]

White is averaging less than Smith in shield cricket this season and also for last season.
White is also an inferior bowler.
Based on shield matches over the last two years Smith is already a superior player to White.

Hussey's batting is better than Smith's but is also lower than Marsh and Khawaja and on par with Fergusons for the last few seasons.
Hussey is also 33.
It is sad but at this stage he should never play test cricket. There is no benefit in selecting him.

How old was Katich when he was selected for the test side again?

That said, D. Hussey is a far more mature batsman than the rubbish hughes and smith served up, and probably clarke as well.

the second time I mean, not when he get his baggy green on the basis of moving from WA to NSW...

 

[The_Reaper]

How old was Katich when he was selected for the test side again?

That said, D. Hussey is a far more mature batsman than the rubbish hughes and smith served up, and probably clarke as well.

the second time I mean, not when he get his baggy green on the basis of moving from WA to NSW...

I don't disagree.

Katich returning was because the team was still under the opinion that they could remain number one. So they selected a stop gap player to maintain that position (and yes he has done his job very well).

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that it will take at least 4-5 years before we can challenger for world number 1. In that case there is no reason to select a stop gap like David Hussey.

Furthermore, Hussey's shield season this year has being good but nothing special so there is no reason to select him ahead of Khawaja or Marsh.

 

[dan warna]

I don't disagree.

Katich returning was because the team was still under the opinion that they could remain number one. So they selected a stop gap player to maintain that position (and yes he has done his job very well).

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that it will take at least 4-5 years before we can challenger for world number 1. In that case there is no reason to select a stop gap like David Hussey.

Furthermore, Hussey's shield season this year has being good but nothing special so there is no reason to select him ahead of Khawaja or Marsh.

He's got maturity, david I mean, he's not going to throw his wicket like hughes and smith. They seem to have no pride in the baggy green, neither does haddin for that matter.

Katich earned a spot with an outstanding year, but the 'outstanding year' doesn't seem to apply to all players.

Something that I saw in O'keefe more than smith on the two times I've seen him go.

Smith is too stupid (in his play i don't know what he's like IRL) to deserve a test spot

 

[eddiesmith]

Its what I find annoying

A player who takes a couple of years to find their feet at State level then when they start performing are told they need to gain more consistency then they hit 30 and after 5 or so good seasons are now too old and the next young player moves in etc.

A player who reaches his 30's and still averages in the 50's is obviously the complete package in he has ways around his weakness, surely in a struggling team its not a bad idea to have a couple of blokes like that rather than just 6 players under 25?

 

[ROSEMVP]

White is australias best odi player
made a ton against england a few weeks back
Great captain

 

[smasha]

I just don't understnad why Hughes and Smith have been selected

In Sheffield Shield cricket this season - surely the key guide - Hughes had an average of 16.85 from 7 knocks (ranking him in 66th spot for the season). Smith is better - he is an average of 32.70 from 6 innings (ranked 28th)

A Test cap must be earned

I just want to see spots awarded on merit.

I don't care where they come from either but it seems you don't have to do much if you're a NSW player and you have to perform like Lillee or Bradman to get in if you're a VIC.

That's where the argument lays.

If the team had 11 NSW players and they got there on merit,then I wouldn't have a problem.

There are 2 different sets of laws being shown.

That's what pisses me off.

And yes I know Hodge has had his day now but why does he make 200,has a few bad ones and then gets the arse while others get 9 lives?


The more I think about it,it pisses me right offf.

 

[smasha]

White is australias best odi player
made a ton against england a few weeks back
Great captain

Yeah but he's been stereotyped as a one day player.

THat's another thing that pisses me off.

Bracketing players.

White would be great in the test side but because the fecking selectors stereotype him as a one day player,he will not get a look in even if he gets the stats up.

FFS, a good cricketer is a good cricketer-simple as that.

****ing pissing me off Cricket Australia.

 

[ROSEMVP]

white is starting to be pushed by the nsw media as next captain. the nsw media basically pick the aus team.

all media in australia is based in nsw.

 

[smasha]

Its what I find annoying

A player who takes a couple of years to find their feet at State level then when they start performing are told they need to gain more consistency then they hit 30 and after 5 or so good seasons are now too old and the next young player moves in etc.

A player who reaches his 30's and still averages in the 50's is obviously the complete package in he has ways around his weakness, surely in a struggling team its not a bad idea to have a couple of blokes like that rather than just 6 players under 25?

Hodge factor.

Bloke was a great player but never had a chance then got old ,then they selected him when it was too late then they have the audacity to say well he isn't good enough because he's too old.


AAARRRGGGGHH.

 

[smasha]

white is starting to be pushed by the nsw media as next captain. the nsw media basically pick the aus team.

all media in australia is based in nsw.

Look I don't have a problem with NSW players in the team if they earn it.
I really wanted Hughesy to fire up this test.

I rate him but has he done enough?

If he was a VIC, the ****ing selectors would've dropped him by now.