Bias between state player

[dan warna]

Look I don't have a problem with NSW players in the team if they earn it.
I really wanted Hughesy to fire up this test.

I rate him but has he done enough?

If he was a VIC, the ****ing selectors would've dropped him by now.

McDonald was showing better form with the bat and the ball than smith and was dropped <Shrug>

Hodge was in better form than clarke, Smith and hughes and was dropped <shrug>

D.Hussey has averaged 55 for 10 years or so and was never selected <shrug>

people suggest he has a technical flaw in his batting, did they see some of the rubbish being served up by people who apparently don't have hussey's technical flaw?

 

[smasha]

People are going Hughesy will come good.

Just needs a few more games.

I mean FFS.

Siddle has a bad test and everyone wants him out yet Hughes-"no,he'll be right mate,roll up,have another 9 goes".

Anyone who bags Siddle needs to have their head read.

That bloke tries he's guts out.

That running catch he took was a ripper.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Its what I find annoying

A player who takes a couple of years to find their feet at State level then when they start performing are told they need to gain more consistency then they hit 30 and after 5 or so good seasons are now too old and the next young player moves in etc.

A player who reaches his 30's and still averages in the 50's is obviously the complete package in he has ways around his weakness, surely in a struggling team its not a bad idea to have a couple of blokes like that rather than just 6 players under 25?

This.

Selectors stuff up by not picking player until he is much older, because they take far too long to work out how good he is. Then they punish the player for their mistake. Strange world.

 

[peternorth]

Its what I find annoying

A player who takes a couple of years to find their feet at State level then when they start performing are told they need to gain more consistency then they hit 30 and after 5 or so good seasons are now too old and the next young player moves in etc.

A player who reaches his 30's and still averages in the 50's is obviously the complete package in he has ways around his weakness, surely in a struggling team its not a bad idea to have a couple of blokes like that rather than just 6 players under 25?

great post.

selectors will use different reasons for different players.

 

[BarneyBent]

McDonald was showing better form with the bat and the ball than smith and was dropped <Shrug>

Hodge was in better form than clarke, Smith and hughes and was dropped <shrug>

D.Hussey has averaged 55 for 10 years or so and was never selected <shrug>

people suggest he has a technical flaw in his batting, did they see some of the rubbish being served up by people who apparently don't have hussey's technical flaw?

McDonald and Hodge were replaced by better players than are currently available. Smith and Hughes also have the "youth" factor in their favour, which the selectors are clearly going for. They are also playing in a struggling team, so their poor form is less pronounced. There are reasons, even if you don't like them.

 

[krisholio14]

McDonald and Hodge were replaced by better players than are currently available. Smith and Hughes also have the "youth" factor in their favour, which the selectors are clearly going for. They are also playing in a struggling team, so their poor form is less pronounced. There are reasons, even if you don't like them.

Come off it. Hodge gets the arse two tests after scoring a double ton because the selectors just could not wait to get Michael Clarke back in the side, even though he'd done bugger all to deserve it.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Actually Hodge was replaced by Damien Martyn

 

[krisholio14]

Actually Hodge was replaced by Damien Martyn

Had a feeling I had the wrong player.

Actually Marto was another bloke who got a bit of leniency when he was having a lean spell. At least he repaid the faith at times.

 

[aneale]

The academy is a some what recent concept where as the Sheffield Shield has existed for about 118 years and done the job very nicely.

Yes in a period of when Test cricketers actually played in it. Hell, Test cricketers played grade cricket. Now they spend all their time traipsing the earth for every useless away tour and chasing T20 cash.

The Academy came into place because the ACB saw what a cluster**** the game had become here, they were sick of being the WI's chew toy and couldn't see a way through the mess. It's introduction is what made Australia a generation ahead of the pack, it resulted in other countries developing their own.

The Shield is clogged with over the hill, never get a game types like DHussey and never will be's, and then sprinkled with a small portion of talented kids. There is little difference between the Shield and the English County system at the moment, and as 3 of the last 4 Ashes series will attest to. You can't argue that the Shield is the best domestic comp in the world and readying our players for a Test given that there is little evidence to support such a theory.

 

[dan warna]

McDonald and Hodge were replaced by better players than are currently available. Smith and Hughes also have the "youth" factor in their favour, which the selectors are clearly going for. They are also playing in a struggling team, so their poor form is less pronounced. There are reasons, even if you don't like them.

Pretty sure the players who came into the side were martyn, clarke and katich, all of whom were dropped or in the case of martyn, retired shortly afterwards the 05 series after failing miserably.

M. Hussey and B. Hodge would have been the difference as both were in form at this time while clarke, kat and martyn were absolute rubbish at this time.

Clarke and katich were selected afterwards again.

Smith and Hughes were carried this series and have contributed nothing but dead weight.

going for youth under pressure, has resulted in carrying 4 batsmen, clarke, hughes, smith and ponting, something NO side can do against reasonable opposition.

 

[BarneyBent]

Pretty sure the players who came into the side were martyn, clarke and katich, all of whom were dropped or in the case of martyn, retired shortly afterwards the 05 series after failing miserably.

M. Hussey and B. Hodge would have been the difference as both were in form at this time while clarke, kat and martyn were absolute rubbish at this time.

Clarke and katich were selected afterwards again.

Smith and Hughes were carried this series and have contributed nothing but dead weight.

going for youth under pressure, has resulted in carrying 4 batsmen, clarke, hughes, smith and ponting, something NO side can do against reasonable opposition.

Once again, those are all reasons why the selectors chose wrong. I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that the situations are clearly different. There aren't even any Clarkes, Katiches or Martyns to replace Hughes or Smith. There is nobody. David Hussey has never played Test cricket before, and at 33 the selectors have written him off based on age. Wrong, but that's how it is. White is in very meh form, Ferg solid but nothing special, Khawaja making lots of 50s but few big scores, McDonald is injured, Marsh is showing form for the first time ever, Klinger has done nothing this year, North was a Test failure. Who else is there?

It's got nothing to do with NSW. It's the state of the team, the state of domestic cricket, and the selectors liking their youth. All three of these factors differ from the McDonald and Hodge selections.

 

[dan warna]

Hughes was probably the least performed opening batsman in the country atm.

Smith was rubbish, white was dropped as a 26 year old after basically doing better than smith.

Same selectors took Katich, note when katich scored his swag of runs, second on the run tables was D. Hussey and yet north was selected ahead of huss.

The selectors can't admit they are wrong so persist in throwing up rubbish.

As for Bollinger, he was selected based on the outrage from the NSW media despite being unready.

What cost us this series, much as in 2005 is we didn't pick the best in the nation.

And huss maybe out form averaging 40 in shield cricket at 46 in FC this season, but he's still in better form than a fair few in the test side currently.

As for white, he's a more talented version of North as well as a leader, as someone else said, he takes the sum of the parts and makes a greater whole from victoria.

The great richie benaud's stats don't add up, what makes him a great is his leadership, something the selectors should have done with white 3 or 4 seasons ago instead of carrying clarke.

They've been condemned because clarke isn't the leader they appointed him to be.

 

[The Donners]

white is starting to be pushed by the nsw media as next captain. the nsw media basically pick the aus team.

all media in australia is based in nsw.

It would be an absolute joke for Ponting's successor to not be in the current test line-up.

I will not support Clarke as test captain. Probably as much the fact I don't support the selectors than anything personal against Clarke - considering he shouldn't even be in the test or T20 teams.

 

[eddiesmith]

It would be an absolute joke for Ponting's successor to not be in the current test line-up.

I will not support Clarke as test captain. Probably as much the fact I don't support the selectors than anything personal against Clarke - considering he shouldn't even be in the test or T20 teams.

Its why you pick White as a batsman and give the captaincy to either Katich or Hussey for the next 12-18 months

 

[The Donners]

Once again, those are all reasons why the selectors chose wrong. I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that the situations are clearly different. There aren't even any Clarkes, Katiches or Martyns to replace Hughes or Smith. There is nobody. David Hussey has never played Test cricket before, and at 33 the selectors have written him off based on age. Wrong, but that's how it is. White is in very meh form, Ferg solid but nothing special, Khawaja making lots of 50s but few big scores, McDonald is injured, Marsh is showing form for the first time ever, Klinger has done nothing this year, North was a Test failure. Who else is there?

It's got nothing to do with NSW. It's the state of the team, the state of domestic cricket, and the selectors liking their youth. All three of these factors differ from the McDonald and Hodge selections.

Mark Cosgrove?
Sean Marsh?

 

[The Donners]

Its why you pick White as a batsman and give the captaincy to either Katich or Hussey for the next 12-18 months

I agree. I'd love Katich as caretaker captain.

 

[Caesar]

How old was Katich when he was selected for the test side again?

Katich got his recall by scoring 1,500 Shield runs in a single season, at a time when there happened to be a batting vacancy. When Dussey does that I'll be the first person advocating his selection.

 

[Catsace]

Krisholio is spot on. I have no issue with the best players being picked, it's simply the fact that the first chances given to a new (or old) player happen to be blokes from N.S.W, or more accurately simply not from Victoria.

Hodge made 203 n/o in his 3rd test, failed twice in the Boxing day test the next match, and then failed in the 1st innings in Sydney in the 3rd test. He was 29 n/o in the 2nd innings in that match, being there in a solid 60+ run partnership with Ponting i believe to carry us to a 7-wicket win.

And, due to a belief by the selectors that he had 'a technical flaw' outside off stump, he was given the Lemon and Sarse. No guidance as to improve the flaw, just dropped like a hot spud. He also took about 7 catches in his short career so his fielding wasn't an issue either. Hodgey gets back for a singular test in the W.I about 18 months later to replace an injured Ponting, and makes 67 in the 1st innings. Sayanara after that, his test career finishes at 6 tests with an average of 55-ish.

That what sucks, he had to play 11 years of 1st class cricket to get a gig, and was discarded without a second thought. Meanwhile Marcus North gets test after test against weak N.Z, Pakistan etc to 'prove' himself, and does a Graeme Wood, ie make a 100 every 5 tests or so to 'save his place'. He was never going to be good enough against England, so why didn't White, or someone else get some tests to establish themselves before the ashes?

I know Cam White played 4 tests in India in 2008, but he was batting at #8 and was probably thrown in the deep end as a front-line spinner in a venue few Aussie spinners have succeeded. Even Warne at his best took stick in India. And White isn't Warne's backside as a bowler. But recently Cam White has been focusing on his batting, and he has had several years of experience captaining the Vics. He is also an imposing figure on the field, and at 27, it's his time. Give him another go now, what is there to lose??

I've been following cricket since the late 70's, and the only Victorian batsmen to play any more than one test in that time is Yallop (also maligned and hard done by), Jones (forced out at just 31 y/o), Elliott (who did have a propensity to make big scores then nothing) and of course Hodge. For what it's worth Wayne Phillips got one test in 1991, where Allan Border was so upset that Geoff Marsh was dropped, he didn't speak to him!!

Simply put, there is too much 'grace' given to blokes who fail time and again. If the selectors are consistent, blokes should get maybe 1-2 tests to prove themselves a la Hodge. The we wouldn't have cases of North, M.Clarke or even M.Hussey for a couple of years staying in the side despite not producing. Can't complain about Hussey this series, he's carried the Aussie batting. But that would be the main beef most Vic fans have with the selection process, the double standards that apply to our state compared to others.

 

[Caesar]

Mark Cosgrove?
Sean Marsh?

Cosgrove will never get a game for Australia in the foreseeable, and that has nothing to do with state bias or frankly anything else besides his personal issues with his weight.

Marsh has a decent claim and can probably feel aggrieved, but the fact he's not an opener and can't bowl a bit like Smith probably counted against him. Not fair, I still think he should have played, but totally explainable without having to talk about conspiracy theories.

Occam's Razor is extremely pertinent in this debate.

 

[Caesar]

Victorians like to bang on about Hodge, but it's pretty clear there were some personality issues going on there that had nothing to do with his state of origin. I thought he got screwed when they brought Marto back in, but the selectors have always favoured incumbents who have entrenched themselves in the side - look at the grace given to guys like Hayden, North and Hussey.

IMO it was the way he spat the dummy after that which put the nail in his coffin for good.

 

[aneale]

Hodge was just unlucky with timing. He aint the first, Stuart Law made 54no in his one and only test, he doesn't even have an average. Moody, Love, Lehmann, Siddons, Bevan, Slater, Elliott they can all feel somewhat aggrieved by that amount of test cricket they did, or in some cases did not play.

Hodge is hardly on his own.

 

[Super Hans]

For The next test hat would you rather?
Khwaja (form player) comes in and makes 80 odd Or White (terrible form) comes in and makes 20 odd? You can't pick someone just because there Victorian, and not pick someone because there from NSW.

 

[eddiesmith]

For The next test hat would you rather?
Khwaja (form player) comes in and makes 80 odd Or White (terrible form) comes in and makes 20 odd? You can't pick someone just because there Victorian, and not pick someone because there from NSW.

Cameron White, terrible form in the Shield where has had what 4 innings? Wow, he also made a century against the English attack, Khawaja failed miserably that game and was shown up, but he did score 200 against SA!

So both players have 1 good score the season. 1 was a double against the might of the redbacks, the other a century against England

Cameron White also has scored ODI runs against England, maybe its time they pick someone who likes playing the opposition, what I have seen of Khawaja in his couple of games against quality attacks is not much because he has never lasted very long

 

[aneale]

Cameron White isn't a test cricketer, he's a pigeon holed ODI player, even he will tell you that. He's played 4 test matches, did nothing in any of them of note. You don't bring someone is because they once scored 46 in a test in India.

He's not a proper batsmen, he's not a proper bowler and he's been around in front of the national selectors for yonks without demanding he be picked. If he isn't a 5 year test player from now there is no point even discussing him.

 

[dan warna]

Cameron White isn't a test cricketer, he's a pigeon holed ODI player, even he will tell you that. He's played 4 test matches, did nothing in any of them of note. You don't bring someone is because they once scored 46 in a test in India.

He's not a proper batsmen, he's not a proper bowler and he's been around in front of the national selectors for yonks without demanding he be picked. If he isn't a 5 year test player from now there is no point even discussing him.

5 year test player? drop Katich, Haddin, punter and Hussey now...probably harris as well.

And yet 2 years ago, he did better than smith from a worse position (batting at 8) and was dropped.

McDonald did better than smith and was dropped.

Hodge did better than Clarke, Smith and Hughes and was dropped

deano did better than many and was dropped much to the annoyance of border.

<shrug>