Big Brother is coming to the footy

jackcass

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#76
It wouldn’t reveal too much we don’t already know.

Young people are always more accepting of new technology and the opportunities it brings. Older people are always more protective of the fabric of society.
I'm old and I'm more than happy to adopt new technologies, especially those that simplify things for me. Sadly, the two times I've had digital tickets for the footy on my phone (to date) it hasn't worked that well. They'd need to improve the system markedly.
 

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Scodog10

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#77
It is progress, but progress isn't always a good thing. In their time, the nazis were very progressive and they like all fascist regimes that have gone before and will probably come again in the future, would have loved this technology to be rolled out in order to help monitor and control people. Foreign powers and dodgy businesses would also love access to these systems in order to manipulate big issues in our country.

If a bit of extra advertising was the only possible negative, I'd be ok with it, but I think the potential negatives are far more extreme.
I do agree that progress for the sake of it shouldn’t be the goal and the link to Nazi Germany, while interesting, is an accurate one.

The rest is tenuous at best, IMO. Ticketing is already done digitally so the avenue already exists for parties to manipulate the system and if it were an area of concern the intelligence community would step in. Given it’s happening I highly doubt they share your concerns.
 

jackcass

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#79
The old "slippery slope" argument is such nonsense.

That article is also very miss leading, every day people will not be affected by any "ratings", it's more for the very best and very worse citizens to be rewarded / punished.

More public cameras will have a big impact in reducing crime and making us all a little safer.
They may offer some sense of safety to some but realistically cameras clearly don't stop crime. If they did we wouldn't see so much (nearly illegible) footage of alleged perpetrators peddled as news. Maybe when the camera technology catches up.
 
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Black_White

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#80
Stolen? We live in a society that presumes innocence. Nobody stole anything.



If you take a photo of Carlton’s backline during gameday, are you stealing Carlton’s IP? Of course not.

If you take a photo of Carlton’s backline during an open training session, are you stealing Carlton’s IP? Of course not.

If you take a photo of Carlton’s backline from your balcony on Royal Parade overlooking Princess Park during a closed training session, are you stealing Carlton’s IP? No. Calton’s Backline formation is not an official secret under the 1914 Crimes’ act.

If you walk through a men’s toilet door at Princess Park during a public event at the ground are you trespassing? No.

What if you walk through the door and find you’ve made an honest mistake, it’a not the men’s toilet, would you be trespassing? No.



If that were true we’d have no media.

Journalists do that all the time. Maybe they’re not always the ones who are taking the pictures, but at a minimum they’re accessories.

That’s always been an embarrassment to leaders and politicians. See wikileaks. Despite the best efforts of politicians, they’ve never been able to clamp down on it - but with the help of folks like you they’ll eventually get their way. All in the cause of public safety of course.



Carlton perhaps? In Victoria there are laws against not taking reasonable measures to protect your property.
You really hate being wrong don’t you?
And yet.....
 

sr36

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#84
I do agree that progress for the sake of it shouldn’t be the goal and the link to Nazi Germany, while interesting, is an accurate one.

The rest is tenuous at best, IMO. Ticketing is already done digitally so the avenue already exists for parties to manipulate the system and if it were an area of concern the intelligence community would step in. Given it’s happening I highly doubt they share your concerns.
The intelligence community are already stepping in due to fears of espionage, hence Huawei being locked out of playing a part in establishing 5G networks. Hence some feeble rules and penalties about where data can go, which came to light after suspicion of Russian attempts to manipulate the American election. They are able to step in with telecommunication infrastructure, because it is highly regulated and laws are already on the books that enable them to step in. It's a much more difficult task when it comes to individuals who agree to be tracked, which we all do when we agree to location tracking on our devices. The horse has already bolted when it comes to the tracking of our devices, but it staggers me the range of different apps that want to track your location, most of which would seem to have no functional reason to. Don't get me wrong, I love the convenience of google maps and a couple of other apps that I use, where I understand that enabling location tracking makes the app much more functional, but believe it should be highly regulated. There are definite benefits of tracking, but the only great thing in the world that is black and white is our beloved footy club, there are definite risks in tracking as well.

The tracking of devices is one thing, tracking humans is an extra step altogether and it's very likely that if ticketek have their way, the only way of buying a ticket to go watch the footy will involve agreeing to the terms and conditions which are likely to include agreeing to being tracked and probably agreeing that this tracking can be passed on to a third party. The whole thing stinks and I believe is fraught with danger.

I love modern technology, its an amazing new world that we live in, but I think we need to be really wary about protecting rights to privacy and feel that laws are lagging way behind when it comes to this and are also incredibly complicated due to it being a global and not just a national issue.
 

Scodog10

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#85
Can you explain how GC’s role as a mod has any relevance to his opinion about facial recognition?
You’re joking right? You’re so deep into hatred you don’t even actually know what you’re arguing about given I was commenting purely on advertising! I’ve stated a couple of times that I’m not convinced about the facial recognition and my opinion is purely directed at shifting toward a digital ticketing platform.
 

Scodog10

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#86
The intelligence community are already stepping in due to fears of espionage, hence Huawei being locked out of playing a part in establishing 5G networks. Hence some feeble rules and penalties about where data can go, which came to light after suspicion of Russian attempts to manipulate the American election. They are able to step in with telecommunication infrastructure, because it is highly regulated and laws are already on the books that enable them to step in. It's a much more difficult task when it comes to individuals who agree to be tracked, which we all do when we agree to location tracking on our devices. The horse has already bolted when it comes to the tracking of our devices, but it staggers me the range of different apps that want to track your location, most of which would seem to have no functional reason to. Don't get me wrong, I love the convenience of google maps and a couple of other apps that I use, where I understand that enabling location tracking makes the app much more functional, but believe it should be highly regulated. There are definite benefits of tracking, but the only great thing in the world that is black and white is our beloved footy club, there are definite risks in tracking as well.

The tracking of devices is one thing, tracking humans is an extra step altogether and it's very likely that if ticketek have their way, the only way of buying a ticket to go watch the footy will involve agreeing to the terms and conditions which are likely to include agreeing to being tracked and probably agreeing that this tracking can be passed on to a third party. The whole thing stinks and I believe is fraught with danger.

I love modern technology, its an amazing new world that we live in, but I think we need to be really wary about protecting rights to privacy and feel that laws are lagging way behind when it comes to this and are also incredibly complicated due to it being a global and not just a national issue.
I’m pretty confident the intelligence community aren’t stepping in to prevent digital ticketing platforms built by Ticketmaster...
 
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jmac70

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#87
You’re joking right? You’re so deep into hatred you don’t even actually know what you’re arguing about given I was commenting purely on advertising! I’ve stated a couple of times that I’m not convinced about the facial recognition and my opinion is purely directed at shifting toward a digital ticketing platform.
I’m not into hatred at all. GC gave his opinion and you said it was compromised given his role as a mod. GC does not benefit from the advertising on this site, and as such his view is purely his own as a member of society.
 

sr36

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#88
I’m pretty confident the intelligence community aren’t stepping in to prevent digital ticketing platforms built by Ticketmaster...
I agree, I'd be shocked if they were targetting Ticketmaster, but I'd also be shocked if they hadn't had significant talks about the risks associated with private companies tracking individuals. I'd be shocked if they're weren't any in their number lobbying for laws that looked to limit it.
 

Kappa

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#89
They may offer some sense of safety to some but realistically cameras clearly don't stop crime. If they did we wouldn't see so much (nearly illegible) footage of alleged perpetrators peddled as news. Maybe when the camera technology catches up.
So because some crimes happen on camera therefore cameras do not reduce crime... ?


I agree, I'd be shocked if they were targetting Ticketmaster, but I'd also be shocked if they hadn't had significant talks about the risks associated with private companies tracking individuals. I'd be shocked if they're weren't any in their number lobbying for laws that looked to limit it.
Private companies do already track us. From what we google search to which websites we looked at, all that information is already being sold to private companies and has been for a very long time. Strangely our country hasn't turned into Nazi Germany though and I'm still free to walk around outside.
 

sr36

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#90
Private companies do already track us. From what we google search to which websites we looked at, all that information is already being sold to private companies and has been for a very long time. Strangely our country hasn't turned into Nazi Germany though and I'm still free to walk around outside.
Let's only look at our personal experiences over the last 10 years of history and assume that nothing will ever change, even though that decade has seen an unprecedented rate of change. Let's ignore what has happened and is happening in other countries. Let's ignore the previous history of thousands and thousands of years of change, where empires have risen and fallen, governments have risen and fallen, fascism has risen and fallen. Let's assume that those things will never happen again. It's outside our personal experience. Nothing bad has happened to me from the tracking that has occurred, therefore it never will, therefore we should just ignore its dramatic uncontrolled growth and any potential risks that it may pose. Seems prudent to me.
 
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Kappa

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#91
Let's only look at our personal experiences over the last 10 years of history and assume that nothing will ever change, even though that decade has seen an unprecedented rate of change. Let's ignore what has happened and is happening in other countries. Let's ignore the previous history of thousands and thousands of years of change, where empires have risen and fallen, governments have risen and fallen, fascism has risen and fallen. Let's assume that those things will never happen again, because it's outside our personal experience. Seems prudent to me.
There should always be a healthy scepticism with any new big technology, but some people in this thread are heading to the tin foil hat brigade
 

sr36

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#94
There should always be a healthy scepticism with any new big technology, but some people in this thread are heading to the tin foil hat brigade
I'm someone that you have already described as in 'the tin foil hat brigade'. I think there is a great deal of potential negative consequences of companies like Ticketmaster using facial recognition software to track people, with an increase in targetted marketing being a certainty, but the least of the risks. I'm not stating that anything catastrophic will come of digital tracking, but I'm bloody concerned that we're exposing ourselves to a greater risk of it, especially as in the ticketmaster case, it is risk with zero reward. The only positive consequence is to Ticketmaster's bottom line when they sell the data or use it to assist marketers. Frankly, I don't see how anyone other than Ticketmaster can be in support of it being used at the footy. The safety argument is just plain false, as the police won't have the rights to use any of the data.
 
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jackcass

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#95
??????

You must also think that speeding cameras don't reduce the amount of people who speed because they sometimes catch people :drunk:
Speed cameras certainly deter speeding. But that's a system that results in the issuing of penalty notices against the registration plate of every vehicle identified as speeding as opposed to a system that doesn't even provide clear enough picture quality to actually identify perpetrators or isn't easily circumvented by simply wearing a hoody. :drunk::drunk:

To be clear, camera's would deter me from committing a crime. But I wouldn't be thinking of committing a crime if there weren't camera's. Nett result of installing camera's.... zero change in my crime rate.
 
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swoop42

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#96
A hotdog has been available at the football for years.

Nothing new.

Now, if Christina Ballerina is giving out massages undercover at half time you have my attention.
 
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Whilst it's not what you intended, I actually agree with this.
They won't necessarily be a deterrent or prevent crime.
They can however be, (and are successfully) used to apprehend the offenders.
It all becomes about the price we want to pay as a community v the benefits received. It's no doubt a good result when cameras identify a heinous act like that bloke who got pinged belting someone as he walked in the street in Frankston a while back. So how far do we go with cameras in public places. Me I would rather wind them right back.

I will be in the minority probably but I think we have overdone speed cameras. Their effect up to a point is a deterrent but once that's achieved there probably isnt much more to be achieved by rolling out anymore but there is as a revenue raiser.

People are worried about not having a mobile phone with them all the time just in case. New parents want cameras and alarms on their newborns to monitor them just in case. Schools are afraid to put their students into many less controlled environments just in case something goes amiss and they will be blamed. Monkey bars are out.

I want less monitoring of crowds at the footy not more. In the main I have found footy crowds pretty good at managing themselves. We don't have a significant problem. Look at the States now and the lunacy of the crisis Trump is trying to manufacture. Big brother often looks out for themselves not us. We need less regulation in life and more personal responsibility. That leads to happiness and satisfaction in the main.


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Black_White

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It’s a pity this thread seems to have a very narrow focus on the issue at hand.
We appear to think that “footy crowds are good at managing themselves”.
But are we ignoring the society that we now live in?
Are we ignoring world events of the last decade?
Is the ground CFC play the majority of its games on not the biggest, juiciest target in Melbourne?
Time to widen your focus guys.
 
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