Big Cricket Thread

[Ochre]

Some serious underrating of Watson’s bowling ability here. Obviously injuries played a part, but I reckon he was just as skilful with the ball as he was with the bat.

People were so obsessed by what Watto could be, that what he was has been criminally underrated. 35 with the bat (a lot as an opener) and 33 with the ball in Tests is a damn good return, and he was a much better white ball player too.

 

[Ochre]

Also apparently an absolute ripper bloke too.

 

[ioppolo]

Watto would be in a greatest Australian ODI XI in my eyes.
Opening with Gilchrist perhaps.

 

[happy_eagle]

Watto would be in a greatest Australian ODI XI in my eyes.
Opening with Gilchrist perhaps.

Focusing on 1990s onwards

M.Waugh
Gilchrist
Ponting
S.Waugh
Hussey
Bevan
Symonds
Warne
Starc
Lee
McGrath

Watson would be battling with Symonds for a spot at 7

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I’d have Bracken in our best ever ODI XI.

Come at me.

Swang it up front, cutters near the end. Very versatile.

 

[ashley12]

Bracken over Starc.

I'd probably have Michael Clarke over S.Waugh as well.

 

[ashley12]

Shower thought while I'm here.

Gilchrist batted 7 in Tests because any higher up was too tiring after long sessions in the field etc... reasonable logic, but why couldn't he bat higher in the first innings when Australia batted first. Surely that would give him more time to be fresh for the first innings in the field etc...

-----

Also semi related but it still blows my mind how simplistic cricket strategies are in regards to batting lineups and bowling changes.

Level 0 thinking is "here is our XI in batting order" and it's set.

Now we are seeing some level 1 thinking "here is our lineup, but we will send in Maxwell next after 10 overs etc"

Where is the level 2 and 3 thinking. Batting and keeping a RH and LH combo going in your first 8, actual dedicated pinch hit openers. Players moving down because of matchups, not just because of "he is an anchor and we are 0/100 off 10" etc...

 

[MrKK]

Shower thought while I'm here.

Gilchrist batted 7 in Tests because any higher up was too tiring after long sessions in the field etc... reasonable logic, but why couldn't he bat higher in the first innings when Australia batted first. Surely that would give him more time to be fresh for the first innings in the field etc...

-----

Also semi related but it still blows my mind how simplistic cricket strategies are in regards to batting lineups and bowling changes.

Level 0 thinking is "here is our XI in batting order" and it's set.

Now we are seeing some level 1 thinking "here is our lineup, but we will send in Maxwell next after 10 overs etc"

Where is the level 2 and 3 thinking. Batting and keeping a RH and LH combo going in your first 8, actual dedicated pinch hit openers. Players moving down because of matchups, not just because of "he is an anchor and we are 0/100 off 10" etc...

It's like Simmo is running their strategy amirite?

 

[ioppolo]

Focusing on 1990s onwards

M.Waugh
Gilchrist
Ponting
S.Waugh
Hussey
Bevan
Symonds
Warne
Starc
Lee
McGrath

Watson would be battling with Symonds for a spot at 7

Didn't really see M.Waugh play as I was too young.
Watson's bowling was criminally underrated so he was gets my nod.

 

[RookiePick]

Watto's primary sin was not being as good as Kallis. He was consistent but struggled to go big with the bat. His bowling was very good but his body rarely let him display his talent at its full potential.

Plus his eye for the DRS was comical. Playing backyard cricket with him would have been a nightmare for his siblings.

 

[Hook461123]

Watto was all time great in odi’s and t20’s.
Was a bit frustrating in Tests though.
A lot of starts but rarely went on with it. I remember him frustrating the hell out of me at times.
Still a great player though

 

[Agent93]

I can't really remember the last time Cartwright bowled tbh.

Steve Waugh style all-rounder. Used to bowl a bit but just bats these days.

 

[Mop]

Its a sad state of affairs when I get more enjoyment out of a WA win than the Australian side.

Not too many players I can warm to at the minute and I'm still not happy the way some of the players and CA started JL.

Glad someone shares my sentiment. Maybe when Finch GTFO I'll become less cynical

 

[Agent93]

Bevan

**** that guy. His batting regularly caused the problems he supposedly saved the team from.

Watto's primary sin was not being as good as Kallis.

Kallis is an all-time top 10 player. And CA and the Australian public bemoaned Watto for being only a top 20 all-rounder of all-time.

Plus he had that shocking run of getting out LBW, reviewing it, and looking silly.

 

[Truckosaurus]

Didn't he run Katich out a bunch of times too, or was that another opener?

 

[Dazzler9]

* that guy. His batting regularly caused the problems he supposedly saved the team from.


Kallis is an all-time top 10 player. And CA and the Australian public bemoaned Watto for being only a top 20 all-rounder of all-time.

Plus he had that shocking run of getting out LBW, reviewing it, and looking silly.

Yes, a shocking run. So unlucky.

 

[Dazzler9]

I'm hopeful that Cam Green will have a mid-40s batting average and take wickets at about 30. That would put him into the specialist category of either discipline, something that Watson never really was. He was your typical handy all-rounder.

 

[Ochre]

Shower thought while I'm here.

Gilchrist batted 7 in Tests because any higher up was too tiring after long sessions in the field etc... reasonable logic, but why couldn't he bat higher in the first innings when Australia batted first. Surely that would give him more time to be fresh for the first innings in the field etc...

-----

Also semi related but it still blows my mind how simplistic cricket strategies are in regards to batting lineups and bowling changes.

Level 0 thinking is "here is our XI in batting order" and it's set.

Now we are seeing some level 1 thinking "here is our lineup, but we will send in Maxwell next after 10 overs etc"

Where is the level 2 and 3 thinking. Batting and keeping a RH and LH combo going in your first 8, actual dedicated pinch hit openers. Players moving down because of matchups, not just because of "he is an anchor and we are 0/100 off 10" etc...

I've always wondered why teams don't send out a tailender who is good defensively to open in Tests to take the shine off. Cummins, Siddle, Gillespie etc would've all been handy at it.

I think with most of these things it just comes down to the fact the praise the media would give if it comes off is dwarfed by how much you'd get slammed if it didn't.

 

[Dazzler9]

 

[Agent93]

I've always wondered why teams don't send out a tailender who is good defensively to open in Tests to take the shine off. Cummins, Siddle, Gillespie etc would've all been handy at it.

That is generally the idea of opening bats. Take the shine off it, then score some runs, exactly what JL used to do. Notably some of the shine was usually removed with his helmet, but I move on.

Problem is Australia has been seduced by the Warners of the world after having generational talents in Hayden and Langer previously. Limited overs style batting which is either feast or famine, rather than trying to set up and innings. Problem is this runs right through the Shield ranks and we may only just be seeing the end of it.

 

[happy_eagle]

Problem is Australia has been seduced by the Warners of the world after having generational talents in Hayden and Langer previously. Limited overs style batting which is either feast or famine, rather than trying to set up and innings. Problem is this runs right through the Shield ranks and we may only just be seeing the end of it.

Is it just an Australian problem though ?

Looking at the leading opening bat run scorers in the past 5 years



Most strike rates within the 40-50 range

 

[kane249]

If Green and Hardie end up in the Aus side at the same time, can we call them Greedie?

 

[Westend]

Its a sad state of affairs when I get more enjoyment out of a WA win than the Australian side.

Not too many players I can warm to at the minute and I'm still not happy the way some of the players and CA started JL.

I feel your pain Tuggs

 

[Agent93]

Is it just an Australian problem though ?

Looking at the leading opening bat run scorers in the past 5 years

View attachment 1548119

Most strike rates within the 40-50 range

Yeah, Markram is an obvious example of the hit out and get out opener in that list.

There are exceptions; Latham for unzud and Braithwaite for the windies tend to soak up more balls per innings than their contemporaries, Latham's just a lot better at it.

Pujara's missing from that list because he's mostly been used at first-drop in his career, presumably with plan that if the bigger hitting openers get on top that's a success. If one goes cheaply you could revert to the wearing the ball down tactic. Thing is in the small amount of time he's opened he's averaged 79 at a SR of 54, which is up from his usual SR of 43.

 

[ashley12]

I've always wondered why teams don't send out a tailender who is good defensively to open in Tests to take the shine off. Cummins, Siddle, Gillespie etc would've all been handy at it.

I think with most of these things it just comes down to the fact the praise the media would give if it comes off is dwarfed by how much you'd get slammed if it didn't.

The bottom part 100%. The same applies for any type of aggressive or outside the norm strategy. Going for it on 4th down and 2pt conversions in NFL a very similar concept where if you are passive and lose so be it, be aggressive and lose people lose jobs.