List Mgmt. Big key forward

[Quicky]

On paper we lack a tall forward and have a sensational midfield, but when we lose it's usually becasue we get done in clearances (effectiveness more than numbers) and/or our transition from defence breaks down. Our forward line, despite Cox's unreliability has been really efficient for the last year and a bit.

I agree that our losses often come off the back of a poor midfield performance I don't consider midfield to be a serious list management concern for us now however. We have all the elements of a fantastic midfield, guys that win clearances, guys with pace, guys that transition well, guys that kick goals, guys that tag, a dominant ruck. The list management team has done their job. It's up to the coaches to harness that, I question Harvey's and Roccas ability to do that, because I have concerns about our centre clearance structure and ruck tactics.

One thing about the midfield, I do think we need to look at some yound mids sometime soon to future plan for Pendlebury, Beams and Sidebottoms eventual retirement. Make sure we have mids that have had some time in the system so that transition is seamless. We can go about that a few ways. Target mids or target forwards to allow De Goey and Stephenson to transition on ball. I'd like another in under midfielder developing personally.

That does bring us around again to our key forwards. I like our mix forward. I do like Cox who offers a long option and ruck chop out. I like Mihocek for his work ethic, hardness and ability to score goals in different ways. And I like our support around them too because our mediums and smalls are a huge handful. I'm not losing sleep over it but I do think it is an area we could knock out of the park if we got a dominant key forward. Imagine that group with Cameron or Brown added, we'd be unstoppable.

I do also think our key defence could be boosted. Moore has addressed that somewhat. But there are question marks on Roughead in my view. Kelly, Keane and Madgen are no sure things and need a lot of development still. Goldsack and Dunn are near the end. So I see it as another area of need. Perhaps easier to address, frugally, through careful trading, than the key forwards though.

 

[sr36]

I agree that our losses often come off the back of a poor midfield performance I don't consider midfield to be a serious list management concern for us now however. We have all the elements of a fantastic midfield, guys that win clearances, guys with pace, guys that transition well, guys that kick goals, guys that tag, a dominant ruck. The list management team has done their job. It's up to the coaches to harness that, I question Harvey's and Roccas ability to do that, because I have concerns about our centre clearance structure and ruck tactics.

One thing about the midfield, I do think we need to look at some yound mids sometime soon to future plan for Pendlebury, Beams and Sidebottoms eventual retirement. Make sure we have mids that have had some time in the system so that transition is seamless. We can go about that a few ways. Target mids or target forwards to allow De Goey and Stephenson to transition on ball. I'd like another in under midfielder developing personally.

That does bring us around again to our key forwards. I like our mix forward. I do like Cox who offers a long option and ruck chop out. I like Mihocek for his work ethic, hardness and ability to score goals in different ways. And I like our support around them too because our mediums and smalls are a huge handful. I'm not losing sleep over it but I do think it is an area we could knock out of the park if we got a dominant key forward. Imagine that group with Cameron or Brown added, we'd be unstoppable.

I do also think our key defence could be boosted. Moore has addressed that somewhat. But there are question marks on Roughead in my view. Kelly, Keane and Madgen are no sure things and need a lot of development still. Goldsack and Dunn are near the end. So I see it as another area of need. Perhaps easier to address, frugally, through careful trading, than the key forwards though.

I think we've got a great list. In terms of defenders, short term it looks great to me, but I've got no idea why we've added two talls from last year. Just Moore would have been great. Howe is very good as KPD. We're getting done at ground level a bit in defence, and I think that will continue if we don't change the mix and go with another small at the expense of a tall.

I'm confident the midfield will bounce back, we're too predictable at stoppages and a couple of smart coaches have taken advantage of that, but it's early in the year and now is the best time to be exposed. You've got to hope that we can rectify the issues and in some ways if we are to mmet at the pointy end, perhaps Simpson fired his bullets too early. I'm not going to single out any of our coaches as I've got no idea, although someone posted the other day that stoppages were the responsibility of someone other than Harvey.

Our forward line looks too short on paper, if you go with the traditional model that we grew up with, but it looks great on the field and it's been very effective.

My only real concern is that the chip it around transition strategy is going to become our Plan A. I really hope not and that it was just a matter of testing it against two teams who zone back effectively. Worked once against the team that didn't set outliers to stop the switch. Abject failure against the team with outliers.

In terms of future list planning. Yep need to be looking at mids for a few years time. Need to bolster pacy line breakers. Need to bolster talls at either end.

 

[AmericanMustard]

So early in the season and we aren't desperate for one right now, but we don't have a potential one learning the craft and we will need one.

As good as De Goey is, he is a medium size forward and I see him having more midfield minutes in the future. I don't see him as a 10 year permenant forward for us, and if he did, I see him as a medium sized forward anyways.

Darcy Moore could play forward but he has looked great down back. He could be a swingman but I think they have found his role. Ideally we would love to have a clone of him to play forward as well, but we don't.

Cox is ok for now, but he is 27 and we can get by for the present but he is not the long term answer.

I think we will be ok for right now, but I don't see this structure as a long term solution.

I don't know if they try for a young prospect in the draft and he can develop while we run with this current setup.

Or run this setup to the ground and look for a ready made solution when required?

By the way, this isn't a knee jerk post based on our loss. Or think our forward line is a big issue right now. I actually like our forward setup, I just don't see it as a long term solution.

Thought?

We’re not desperate? Did you see Cox on the weekend? We’re crying out for one it’s why we pushed so hard on Lynch. Cox is not the answer and if you ask me we’re really living on his performance v Richmond as a sign, but some of his positioning on Saturday night was awful, the places he ran wasn’t great and some time whether it was fitness related or knowledge related he wasn’t even close to being in the spots we needed

 

[lethalburns]

We should have some extra cap space by the time Cameron comes out of retirement, however, I tend to agree with Quicky's assessment.

Some people seem to believe that you need perfection on every line to be successful. I don't subscribe to that theory and I think after a certain point it comes down to tactics, work rate and team chemistry.

Whatever happens in 2020, we are in a position NOW to win it. We need to get our structures, work rate and confidence to the levels required.

 

[DaVe86]

I think our setup generally works, but we definitely need another key forward.

If Cox was rubbed out last week, then there wasn't really anyone to come in. I dare say Goldsack is next in line, which is a bit scary.

I highly doubt we'll muck up our defensive structure by moving Moore or Roughead forward...even though I'd prefer this over Goldsack as a forward. I'm also assuming Reid is injured (which he is more often than not)

 

[Moeydw]

I think our setup generally works, but we definitely need another key forward.

If Cox was rubbed out last week, then there wasn't really anyone to come in. I dare say Goldsack is next in line, which is a bit scary.

I highly doubt we'll muck up our defensive structure by moving Moore or Roughead forward...even though I'd prefer this over Goldsack as a forward. I'm also assuming Reid is injured (which he is more often than not)

Reid had a run in the vfl this weekend and kicked 3.4 and was named in the best.

 

[TW Sherrin]

it isn't the forward line failing. it is ball movement upfield and delivery into F50.

dare say most teams will try to play us like wce did....if they can.

 

[Matt_352]

Well what needs to be done to fixball movement up the ground into the fwd line?

 

[Anzacday]

we pushed so hard on Lynch

We didn't even get a look in i.e, didn't make him an offer.

 

[76woodenspooners]

We’re not desperate? Did you see Cox on the weekend? We’re crying out for one it’s why we pushed so hard on Lynch. Cox is not the answer and if you ask me we’re really living on his performance v Richmond as a sign, but some of his positioning on Saturday night was awful, the places he ran wasn’t great and some time whether it was fitness related or knowledge related he wasn’t even close to being in the spots we needed

Four key moments for Cox on Saturday ...

(1) Free Kick 5 meters out from goal at the city end, on a tight angle in the MCC pocket (wrong side for a right footer). Tries a reverse banana on his right and splays it for no score. I get that many players can’t kick with their opposite, but gee, surely practicing being able to kick the footy straight 10 meters on your wrong foot is better than practicing reverse bananas? If he could just kick a footy 10 meters on his left then that would have been a straightforward goal.

(2) Cox end of a string of handballs from Stephenson, 5 meters out from goals directly in front. All he had to do was throw the ball onto his boot and it was a goal, but he tried to be clever and dodge and jive and do his best baby giraffe impersonation and he fluffed it.

(3) 30 meters out from goal at the Punt road end, goes up for a mark and the ball goes straight through his hands. Didn’t have thumbs behind the footy like they teach the under 9’s in Auskick. He’s marked those before, many times. If he’d clunked that he would have had a very easy free shot on goal.

(4) Misses a goal 35 meters out after he’d kicked a much harder one from 50 meters out.

In all those examples he was in the right position. With a little better execution he would have kicked 5 goals on the weeekend, we might have even won, and we’d all be lauding him like he was the second coming.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Despite the shanks, Greenwood isn't stagnant like the other defenders. I also think we've lost an outlet through Phillips moving off the wing.

From memory, looking at the champion data, he covered 163 meters. That's not good for a tagging mid suggesting if he has a future it's as a defender where Buckley was playing him last year. And as a defender I would prefer to play Appleby in the first instance and Quaynor further down the track. As for Aish I don't know why people are complaining because his stats appear better to me than Greenwood when you look at the ground covered.

 

[unplugged]

If the rumour of Grundy heading home continues to grow legs, he'll be going to Adelaide for the pick they got off Carlton. We then trade that for Jeremy Cameron a year before he becomes OOC and an RFA.

Would be the only way to deal with what could be a shitty situation. Grundy would no doubt be on a bit of a wage.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Everyone can a big old laugh;

A fit healthy Daniel Wells with ball in hand...

The forwards would have an absolute picnic.

Lovely weighted passes, like shelling peas.

 

[domin8tors]

So early in the season and we aren't desperate for one right now, but we don't have a potential one learning the craft and we will need one.

As good as De Goey is, he is a medium size forward and I see him having more midfield minutes in the future. I don't see him as a 10 year permenant forward for us, and if he did, I see him as a medium sized forward anyways.

Darcy Moore could play forward but he has looked great down back. He could be a swingman but I think they have found his role. Ideally we would love to have a clone of him to play forward as well, but we don't.

Cox is ok for now, but he is 27 and we can get by for the present but he is not the long term answer.

I think we will be ok for right now, but I don't see this structure as a long term solution.

I don't know if they try for a young prospect in the draft and he can develop while we run with this current setup.

Or run this setup to the ground and look for a ready made solution when required?

By the way, this isn't a knee jerk post based on our loss. Or think our forward line is a big issue right now. I actually like our forward setup, I just don't see it as a long term solution.

Thought?

It's interesting that you / we say key forward and i'm thinking that most are picturing Buddy / Lynch / maybe Cameron / hogan or hawkins. yet the 3 best forwards of All time
Lockett 191 CM
Dunstall 188 CM
Ablett Sr 188 CM

Dagoey 188 CM.. i know everyone is expects him to play in the midfield. but why.. he is probably going at an avg 6-8 shots at goal per game. he is as natural forward as you can find. problem solved in my opinion

 

[Saintly Viewed]

If the rumour of Grundy heading home continues to grow legs, he'll be going to Adelaide for the pick they got off Carlton. We then trade that for Jeremy Cameron a year before he becomes OOC and an RFA.

Would be the only way to deal with what could be a shitty situation. Grundy would no doubt be on a bit of a wage.

There is no rumour.
It only exists in the world of conspiracy.

Why would anyone want to go to Adelaide when his lady live lives in Melbourne and he bro for life lives here.

It’s all Melbourne now.

Mum and dad? Get him Skype

 

[sirlothie]

If the rumour of Grundy heading home continues to grow legs, he'll be going to Adelaide for the pick they got off Carlton. We then trade that for Jeremy Cameron a year before he becomes OOC and an RFA.

Would be the only way to deal with what could be a shitty situation. Grundy would no doubt be on a bit of a wage.

If we lose Grundy we are screwed, we have noone else to do ruck. Way more important we hang onto Grundy whatever it takes all our eggs in that basket now.

 

[sirlothie]

It's interesting that you / we say key forward and i'm thinking that most are picturing Buddy / Lynch / maybe Cameron / hogan or hawkins. yet the 3 best forwards of All time
Lockett 191 CM
Dunstall 188 CM
Ablett Sr 188 CM

Dagoey 188 CM.. i know everyone is expects him to play in the midfield. but why.. he is probably going at an avg 6-8 shots at goal per game. he is as natural forward as you can find. problem solved in my opinion

You're right, De Goey is the man. We won't find a better forward than him, he's only going to get better. We should give him and Grundy $1 million a year for 7 years and be done with it. We already have what we need. And build around them as the future.

 

[sr36]

We’re not desperate? Did you see Cox on the weekend? We’re crying out for one it’s why we pushed so hard on Lynch. Cox is not the answer and if you ask me we’re really living on his performance v Richmond as a sign, but some of his positioning on Saturday night was awful, the places he ran wasn’t great and some time whether it was fitness related or knowledge related he wasn’t even close to being in the spots we needed

Despite their height, view Degoey and Mihocek as our full forward and centre half forward and Cox as our second ruck. Trust me, it'll make you happier. Cox is a pretty good forward for a resting ruck. Degoey is a very good full forward and Mihocek is a workhorse at CHF - He's a similar size and playing much better footy than Jack Darling is at the moment.

 

[Magpiemack]

We’re more desperate for a line breaking defender then a key forward.

Quaynor will be doing that pretty soon.

 

[sr36]

It's interesting that you / we say key forward and i'm thinking that most are picturing Buddy / Lynch / maybe Cameron / hogan or hawkins. yet the 3 best forwards of All time
Lockett 191 CM
Dunstall 188 CM
Ablett Sr 188 CM

Dagoey 188 CM.. i know everyone is expects him to play in the midfield. but why.. he is probably going at an avg 6-8 shots at goal per game. he is as natural forward as you can find. problem solved in my opinion

Lockett was big for his era though. I actually think Ablett was shorter than that.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Lockett was big for his era though. I actually think Ablett was shorter than that.

Ablett the elder was 185cm give or take.

Played taller. Was pretty good actually.

 

[sr36]

Ablett the elder was 185cm give or take.

Played taller. Was pretty good actually.

Good average player.

 

[mike123]

Quaynor will be doing that pretty soon.

He’s no sure thing atm and he looked really raw in the JLT.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Good average player.

Got by.

Geelong got enough games to claim his offspring in father son.

 

[sr36]

Got by.

Geelong got enough games to claim his offspring in father son.

I've heard they knew the kid was good, so they gifted dad the last 150 games just in case the father son rule went up to 250 games. They were furious with him when he retired 8 short of that number.