List Mgmt. Big key forward

[Saintly Viewed]

I've heard they knew the kid was good, so they gifted dad the last 150 games just in case the father son rule went up to 250 games. They were furious with him when he retired 8 short of that number.

I heard that.
Glad it’s confirmed.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

What about someone like Marlon Pickett in the mid season draft. A running player, who can break the lines from HB. Mature body ready to go, and plays similar to Tim Kelly.

 

[sr36]

What about someone like Marlon Pickett in the mid season draft. A running player, who can break the lines from HB. Mature body ready to go, and plays similar to Tim Kelly.

I reckon we pick up 4 blokes who play similarly to Tim Kelly.

 

[No SPIN]

I agree that our losses often come off the back of a poor midfield performance I don't consider midfield to be a serious list management concern for us now however. We have all the elements of a fantastic midfield, guys that win clearances, guys with pace, guys that transition well, guys that kick goals, guys that tag, a dominant ruck. The list management team has done their job. It's up to the coaches to harness that, I question Harvey's and Roccas ability to do that, because I have concerns about our centre clearance structure and ruck tactics.

One thing about the midfield, I do think we need to look at some yound mids sometime soon to future plan for Pendlebury, Beams and Sidebottoms eventual retirement. Make sure we have mids that have had some time in the system so that transition is seamless. We can go about that a few ways. Target mids or target forwards to allow De Goey and Stephenson to transition on ball. I'd like another in under midfielder developing personally.

That does bring us around again to our key forwards. I like our mix forward. I do like Cox who offers a long option and ruck chop out. I like Mihocek for his work ethic, hardness and ability to score goals in different ways. And I like our support around them too because our mediums and smalls are a huge handful. I'm not losing sleep over it but I do think it is an area we could knock out of the park if we got a dominant key forward. Imagine that group with Cameron or Brown added, we'd be unstoppable.

I do also think our key defence could be boosted. Moore has addressed that somewhat. But there are question marks on Roughead in my view. Kelly, Keane and Madgen are no sure things and need a lot of development still. Goldsack and Dunn are near the end. So I see it as another area of need. Perhaps easier to address, frugally, through careful trading, than the key forwards though.

What are your question marks on Roughead?

 

[No SPIN]

We’re not desperate? Did you see Cox on the weekend? We’re crying out for one it’s why we pushed so hard on Lynch. Cox is not the answer and if you ask me we’re really living on his performance v Richmond as a sign, but some of his positioning on Saturday night was awful, the places he ran wasn’t great and some time whether it was fitness related or knowledge related he wasn’t even close to being in the spots we needed

Yes - Cox stays because of his Prelim performance.
Ask GEEL supporters if Hawkins is consistent - yet he plays every week.

Big blokes are rarely as productive week to week as midfielder.

Cox was poor early last year and copped massive criticism here, but responded - he will again IMO.

 

[OniAu]

So many knee jerk reactions on these boards. Tiresome continually reading our list is broke from 1 game or 2 games. Anything before that seems irrelevant.

Sometimes we are just out played. Our problem in our two losses hasn't been our forwards. If our so called "best midfield in the league" was on song , we should've won those games. Grundy was following up his own tap work against the weagles. Tim Kelly did what he wanted in the first round. We dont seem to address on the day issues and adapt. We just let the same thing in the first quarter continue right through out the game , its good when its working, when it isnt , we dont really adapt at all

 

[HappyRed]

Absolutely.

Isn't this what we got Isaac Quaynor for ?

 

[whiskeytown]

I think Cox and Mihocek are doing fine. Elliot plays taller, so too De Goey. Would like an 18 year old KPF developing as we speak though.

The salary cap is already tight. No doubt the next deals for De Goey, Grundy, Moore, Stephenson will be bigger. I'd rather keep them as they form a young and solid spine than risk losing one or two for a big name forward like Camoron.

And there are plenty of young forwards who can be got cheap still. Todd Marshall, Toby Wooler, Jarrod Brander... all from Victoria and can perhaps be lured back before they develop further and cost more $$$

 

[sr36]

Isn't this what we got Isaac Quaynor for ?

Yep but unlikely to be ready year 1

 

[Quicky]

What are your question marks on Roughead?

He often seems a step off the pace for a key defender, he gets beaten on leads more frequently than you'd like to see, he plays behind too often, he doesn't put enough body work on his opponent before they lead. That's a generalisation, it isn't always the case, but he gets beaten because of those things more than you'd want out of a blanketing key back.

He is really good over head and with his spoiling when the ball comes in, he also seems pretty calm which is good in a defender, he's generally a safe kick.

I'm glad we have him in the side because he has been important with Dunn down but I feel we can do better in the role.

 

[sr36]

He often seems a step off the pace for a key defender, he gets beaten on leads more frequently than you'd like to see, he plays behind too often, he doesn't put enough body work on his opponent before they lead. That's a generalisation, it isn't always the case, but he gets beaten because of those things more than you'd want out of a blanketing key back.

He is really good over head and with his spoiling when the ball comes in, he also seems pretty calm which is good in a defender, he's generally a safe kick.

I'm glad we have him in the side because he has been important with Dunn down but I feel we can do better in the role.

I think he's adequate but have the same concerns. However I'm not glad he's in the side. I think we've become too top heavy and vulnerable at ground level by adding two extra talls than we ran with last year. I just think he's a bit of a waste of a player in that his aerial strengths are surplus to our needs.

 

[Seedsfan]

Just play Moore at CHF ffs

 

[legendstatus]

So early in the season and we aren't desperate for one right now, but we don't have a potential one learning the craft and we will need one.

As good as De Goey is, he is a medium size forward and I see him having more midfield minutes in the future. I don't see him as a 10 year permenant forward for us, and if he did, I see him as a medium sized forward anyways.

Darcy Moore could play forward but he has looked great down back. He could be a swingman but I think they have found his role. Ideally we would love to have a clone of him to play forward as well, but we don't.

Cox is ok for now, but he is 27 and we can get by for the present but he is not the long term answer.

I think we will be ok for right now, but I don't see this structure as a long term solution.

I don't know if they try for a young prospect in the draft and he can develop while we run with this current setup.

Or run this setup to the ground and look for a ready made solution when required?

By the way, this isn't a knee jerk post based on our loss. Or think our forward line is a big issue right now. I actually like our forward setup, I just don't see it as a long term solution.

Thought?

Have to agree. A bunch of us after the game all said JDG needs to play in the middle which means we need a power forward, Cox is ok and will have the odd big game but we need a key target.

Patton is off to the Hawks next year, so he is out ( not sure I want him) Cameron? Not sure he’s a power forward but is he available. Not much out there, one from left field, how would Lynch go ( our version in the 2’s)?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jackcass]

I think our setup generally works, but we definitely need another key forward.

If Cox was rubbed out last week, then there wasn't really anyone to come in. I dare say Goldsack is next in line, which is a bit scary.

I highly doubt we'll muck up our defensive structure by moving Moore or Roughead forward...even though I'd prefer this over Goldsack as a forward. I'm also assuming Reid is injured (which he is more often than not)

I'd prefer they debut Lynch over Sack if Reid wasn't ready. I really like the way he's developing this year. Not yet physically mature enough to go full time ruck but I think he'd hold his own in the Cox role.

 

[jackcass]

From memory, looking at the champion data, he covered 163 meters. That's not good for a tagging mid suggesting if he has a future it's as a defender where Buckley was playing him last year. And as a defender I would prefer to play Appleby in the first instance and Quaynor further down the track. As for Aish I don't know why people are complaining because his stats appear better to me than Greenwood when you look at the ground covered.

Do you mean meters gained?

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Semi relevant.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basket...m/news-story/7f40d78abb6fd9f81114e0956123a272

Apparently his choice is between us and Geelong.

 

[Go Woods]

Semi relevant.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basket...m/news-story/7f40d78abb6fd9f81114e0956123a272

Apparently his choice is between us and Geelong.

Heard Kevin Sheahan talking about this kid on SEN this morning. Ranked top 30 in draft rankings before he chose basketball over footy.

 

[domin8tors]

I think Cox and Mihocek are doing fine. Elliot plays taller, so too De Goey. Would like an 18 year old KPF developing as we speak though.

The salary cap is already tight. No doubt the next deals for De Goey, Grundy, Moore, Stephenson will be bigger. I'd rather keep them as they form a young and solid spine than risk losing one or two for a big name forward like Camoron.

And there are plenty of young forwards who can be got cheap still. Todd Marshall, Toby Wooler, Jarrod Brander... all from Victoria and can perhaps be lured back before they develop further and cost more $$$

I think dropping varcoe for greenwood ( Adams ) was a mistake. greenwood is not a natural crummer and whilst Varcoe was out of form his never been a high possession winner.

 

[Kreme Pie]

One of... Peter Wright, Jono Patton, Jeremy Cameron.

although they've all had their share of injuries, so not sure about their bodies holding up.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Semi relevant.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basket...m/news-story/7f40d78abb6fd9f81114e0956123a272

Apparently his choice is between us and Geelong.

Aren’t we the team of basketballers?

We’d kill any team in basketball

 

[loki04]

KPF’s cost an awful lot of salary cap space, and what would the real value of one be to us when we already had 4 players (DeGoey, JT, Stephenson, WHE) in the top 20 goal kickers league wide in 2018? And another player (Mihocek) kicked 29 goals in his 16 games. And another player (Cox) chipped in for 25. And we’ve got attacking midfielders like Beams and Treloar who like to have a ping at goals.

As Buckley implied in his post match presser against WCE, our forward line is OK, we’re getting decent return for our I50’s. Our problem is getting the ball into the forward line, and a KPF isn’t going to help with that. A KPF wouldn’t have made any difference in last year’s GF.

Of course if salary cap were no barrier then we’d happily take the best KPF in the league. But the salary cap is reality and so I reckon a KPF wouldn’t be as valuable to us as what it would be to some other clubs. So unless we can find one who is passionate about Collingwood and will play for us for serious unders, then we can’t afford a gun KPF.

Besides, I think we’re better off as we are spreading the goal kicking load. It’s harder to defend against (does an opposition send their best defender to DeGoey, Elliott or Stephenson? Yikes!). And it provides contingency in case of injury (If WHE was our KPF gun, we’d all be writing 2019 off about now).

A genuine duo KPF set up would make Mcgovern much more accountable, so of course it would help.

I also believe a better CHF option would help us transition the ball more effectively.


People who believe a small forward line is a long term option need to look at history, most teams who have a similar set up pinch a flag on occasion but rarely back it up or have sustained success.

Degoey is great but he does lack certain things in his game compared with a genuine tall option. Also he cant be the only consistently dangerous fwd down there and atm he is.

Its like arguing that Geelong in 2011 didn't need Hawkins because they had S.Johnson.

 

[loki04]

it isn't the forward line failing. it is ball movement upfield and delivery into F50.

dare say most teams will try to play us like wce did....if they can.

Imo there are issues with both ball movement and the forward line.

 

[loki04]

Ablett the elder was 185cm give or take.

Played taller. Was pretty good actually.

Luckily for him many defenders were also sub 190cm (ie Pert 189cm, Martin 190cm) so it was irrelevant his height really.

 

[loki04]

It's interesting that you / we say key forward and i'm thinking that most are picturing Buddy / Lynch / maybe Cameron / hogan or hawkins. yet the 3 best forwards of All time
Lockett 191 CM
Dunstall 188 CM
Ablett Sr 188 CM

Dagoey 188 CM.. i know everyone is expects him to play in the midfield. but why.. he is probably going at an avg 6-8 shots at goal per game. he is as natural forward as you can find. problem solved in my opinion

The general heights of all players back then were shorter. Many defenders were also similar in height.

 

[Johno9911]

I think if Hawthorn are seriously interested in Patton then we (along with the rest of the Vic clubs) should seriously pay attention. I understand the injury concerns, but the Hawthorn factor is what makes it interesting. We've seen what they have done with O'Meara, Silk and Scully, players with serious injury issues that Hawthorn have been able to rectify or manage.

Inside 50 for us Patton would be the perfect focal point for our side, while still being able to provide a key marking target. Stronger pair of hands and less likely to be out bodied in a standing wrestle than Cox, i'd keep him deep forward with only minimal stints up the ground/in the ruck, and allow Mihocek to be the released target up the ground. An isolated 4 on 4 of Patton, Elliot, Stephenson and DeGoey, with WHE and Mihocek further up the flanks would cause nightmares for every backline.