List Mgmt. Big key forward

[76woodenspooners]

What makes you think that those are the types of deals that would land Cameron?

Not convinced they would get the deal done.

(1) There’s the trade value.

(2) There’s the salary cap space. What would the market pay for Jeremy Cameron? $1.2 million a year? (10% of the cap). How would we find that kind of cap space unless we let go of players like Grundy, DeGoey, Sidebottom?
Losing Wells will free up a little space, but wouldn’t have thought it’d be anywhere near enough.

Grundy is arguably the most valuable player in the league but you’re adding Crisp?

KPF have always been more valuable than ruckmen.

JDG (AA squad) Sidey AA and Phillips?

Yep. Cameron is obviously worth a lot more than JDG (otherwise why would we bother recruiting Cameron if we’re satisfied with JDG?). Sidebottom will be 29 at the end of this season. Maybe he’s got another 3 seasons left? And they’re not all going to be at AA level.

What do you think Cameron would be worth to the other 17 clubs? There are other clubs in much more desperate need of scoring power than we are. Look at the Swans’ history with KPF’s - with Buddy in his twilight years, the Swans would trade half their squad to lure Cameron to move over to the nice side of town.

 

[Mooresome]

Package him up with Richards and it's a done deal. Ginger Richards is a gun with exceptional skills. Give them just about anything for these two.

Aish, JT and Murray should get it done.

Chuck in wells for Richards ,Naughton ,and their next years 1st rounder ,seems fair trade

 

[Apex36]

Not convinced they would get the deal done.

(1) There’s the trade value.

(2) There’s the salary cap space. What would the market pay for Jeremy Cameron? $1.2 million a year? (10% of the cap). How would we find that kind of cap space unless we let go of players like Grundy, DeGoey, Sidebottom?
Losing Wells will free up a little space, but wouldn’t have thought it’d be anywhere near enough.



KPF have always been more valuable than ruckmen.



Yep. Cameron is obviously worth a lot more than JDG (otherwise why would we bother recruiting Cameron if we’re satisfied with JDG?). Sidebottom will be 29 at the end of this season. Maybe he’s got another 3 seasons left? And they’re not all going to be at AA level.

What do you think Cameron would be worth to the other 17 clubs? There are other clubs in much more desperate need of scoring power than we are. Look at the Swans’ history with KPF’s - with Buddy in his twilight years, the Swans would trade half their squad to lure Cameron to move over to the nice side of town.

Sorry but you’re seriosly undervaluing both JDG and Grundy in those scenarios. As for your reasoning on JDG vs Cameron’s value, we’d be getting Cameron to replace Cox in the forward line, not him. Why would we get him when we have Jordy? Two guns are better than one my friend.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Sorry but you’re seriosly undervaluing both JDG and Grundy in those scenarios. As for your reasoning on JDG vs Cameron’s value, we’d be getting Cameron to replace Cox in the forward line, not him. Why would we get him when we have Jordy? Two guns are better than one my friend.

Ask the GWS board if they reckon Grundy for Cameron (or DeGoey for Cameron) would be fair trades. As awesome as we consider Grundy and DeGoey to be, I doubt they’ll consider either of them to be anywhere near Cameron’s value.

 

[Sea fog]

Let Cameron consistently perform for a while. The Richmond defence was seriously undermanned at the weekend. He was poor against us in the final last year.

 

[barrackers]

Does anyone know of this Tom Wilson (?), ex Sydney king, that we, Geelong and someone else have offered a contract to?

Mentioned on SEN several times today.

Some very grainy highlights from his days in the U16 Championships

 

[sirlothie]

*Firstly I want to reiterate (so we dont have people coming in and taking things out of context ) that this was in response to that Degoey like a Ablett (or FF of yore) could become a consistent 10 year (Coleman medallist volume) FF lynch pin.

Minus the flooding tactics of modern footy and 3rd man in team play. Ablett played in an area of space and 1v1s. Abletts KPP defenders ranged from 185cm - 194cm (jackovich) in height. Mostly played on KPP around 3-5cm height on him.

Degoey is 188cm on official site and his potential defenders range from 190cm-201cm (talls). Majority of KPP 196-199cm. 8-11cm. I wider variety of heights available to coaches now than then. (Since this is limited to KPD rather then medium defenders who also play on him).

So lets have a look at some kpp not including our own (D.Moore 203cm, J.Roughead 200cm, Dunn 192cm).



WC
J.McGovern 196cm
T.Barras 196cm

Crows
Keith 197cm
Talia 196cm

Ess
Hurley 192cm
Hartley 199cm

Carl
L.Jones 199cm
Weitering 196cm

Brisbane
H.Andrews 201cm
Gardiner 194cm

Geelong
Blicavs 198cm
Taylor 195cm
Henderson 196cm

Melbourne
T.Mcdonald 195cm
Frost 194cm
May 193cm

Freo
Pearce 197cm
Hamling 194cm

GWS
Davis 197cm
Corr 195cm

Hawks
Frawley 193cm
Stratton 190cm
Sicilly 189cm


Swans
Aliir 196cm
Mccartin 194cm

Rich
Astbury 195cm
Rance 196cm

Norf
Thompson 193cm
Tarrant 196cm

Saints
Brown 195cm
Battle 193cm

Can't put the big blokes on De Goey though or he will expose their pee pee's at ground level. Nightmare match up for opposition.

 

[Knightmare]

I thought I'd post this here as this seems to be the main draft chat area at the moment.

2 SANFL games. Two ridiculous totals from a 194cm, 93kg ready-made prospect.
Round 1: 37d, 16m.
Round 2: 38d, 7m.

Absolute perfect fit for Collingwood in the mid-season draft.

Lewis Johnston (Norwood). An ex-Crow/ex-Swan renowned for his powerful overhead marking at that time, he's now a N.Riewoldt/Westhoff on wing equivalent as that aerobic running beast. He absolutely has the versatility to play KPF/KPD, but as a tall wing just leading up at the ball and running all day, he's sensational and the type who in a high possession system like Collingwood would be optimally suited.

Unless his form stagnates, he's the guy Collingwood should be picking during the mid-season draft.

I've heard the name Joe Ayton-Delaney (overager for Oakleigh) as someone Collingwood may consider - think high production and speedy wing but with inconsistent skills and an allergy to going in and winning his own ball. With Collingwood in win-now mode, I'd rather get that ideal positional/system fit who is good enough to contend for if not push someone out of the best 22.

 

[sirlothie]

I thought I'd post this here as this seems to be the main draft chat area at the moment.

2 SANFL games. Two ridiculous totals from a 194cm, 93kg ready-made prospect.
Round 1: 37d, 16m.
Round 2: 38d, 7m.

Absolute perfect fit for Collingwood in the mid-season draft.

Lewis Johnston (Norwood). An ex-Crow/ex-Swan renowned for his powerful overhead marking at that time, he's now a N.Riewoldt/Westhoff on wing equivalent as that aerobic running beast. He absolutely has the versatility to play KPF/KPD, but as a tall wing just leading up at the ball and running all day, he's sensational and the type who in a high possession system like Collingwood would be optimally suited.

Unless his form stagnates, he's the guy Collingwood should be picking during the mid-season draft.

I've heard the name Joe Ayton-Delaney (overager for Oakleigh) as someone Collingwood may consider - think high production and speedy wing but with inconsistent skills and an allergy to going in and winning his own ball. With Collingwood in win-now mode, I'd rather get that ideal positional/system fit who is good enough to contend for if not push someone out of the best 22.

"think high production and speedy wing but with inconsistent skills and an allergy to going in and winning his own ball" - we have plenty of these types.

 

[Knightmare]

"think high production and speedy wing but with inconsistent skills and an allergy to going in and winning his own ball" - we have plenty of these types.

That's the direction I'm hoping Collingwood don't go having heard the name come up from two independent sources it makes me think Collingwood are considering.

If Collingwood really want to go young and grab an overager and I'm taking someone on 2019 performance, I'm liking what I've seen from Stephen Cumming. Played for Dandenong last year, he's rucking for Northern Territory in the NAB League. 22d, 19cp, 40 hitouts and 9 clearances (comfortable win v a team total of 14 hitouts from Tasmania). Similarly dominant going back another week with 22d, 14cp, 2 contested marks, 35 hitouts, 7 clearances and a goal. He's a strong unit and an upgrade on Max Lynch as a young developing ruckman. A good strong unit at 199cm, 104kg.

Like with Johnston, another really nice list fit. And if Collingwood had a second pick, he might be that second guy I'd look at if his dominant play continues.

 

[sirlothie]

That's the direction I'm hoping Collingwood don't go having heard the name come up from two independent sources it makes me think Collingwood are considering.

If Collingwood really want to go young and grab an overager and I'm taking someone on 2019 performance, I'm liking what I've seen from Stephen Cumming. Played for Dandenong last year, he's rucking for Northern Territory in the NAB League. 22d, 19cp, 40 hitouts and 9 clearances (comfortable win v a team total of 14 hitouts from Tasmania). Similarly dominant going back another week with 22d, 14cp, 2 contested marks, 35 hitouts, 7 clearances and a goal. He's a strong unit and an upgrade on Max Lynch as a young developing ruckman. A good strong unit at 199cm, 104kg.

Like with Johnston, another really nice list fit. And if Collingwood had a second pick, he might be that second guy I'd look at if his dominant play continues.

I really like the sound of Johnston but with those numbers and attributes expect him to be highly sought after. Expecting a left field out of nowhere selection who can come straight in. I'll be really impressed if you can nail whoever we pick, it's going to be interesting to see who can get this right, potentially a game changing development if clubs get it right just that 1 new player can make all the difference to a side if it rectifies a glaring weakness.

 

[Finnishpie]

So early in the season and we aren't desperate for one right now, but we don't have a potential one learning the craft and we will need one.

As good as De Goey is, he is a medium size forward and I see him having more midfield minutes in the future. I don't see him as a 10 year permenant forward for us, and if he did, I see him as a medium sized forward anyways.

Darcy Moore could play forward but he has looked great down back. He could be a swingman but I think they have found his role. Ideally we would love to have a clone of him to play forward as well, but we don't.

Cox is ok for now, but he is 27 and we can get by for the present but he is not the long term answer.

I think we will be ok for right now, but I don't see this structure as a long term solution.

I don't know if they try for a young prospect in the draft and he can develop while we run with this current setup.

Or run this setup to the ground and look for a ready made solution when required?

By the way, this isn't a knee jerk post based on our loss. Or think our forward line is a big issue right now. I actually like our forward setup, I just don't see it as a long term solution.

Thought?

I think there are a couple of holes in our list which need addressing:

A class key forward. This was meant to be Ben Reid, but that ship sailed a long time ago.
A class running back. This is Quaynor -- which we all think makes it.
A class crumber -- Leon Davis/Chad Wingard type -- which we don't really have. Varcoe, Thomas, Elliot all almost fit the role.
A super-fast wingman -- I think Stephenson will eventually fill this role, but not yet.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I thought I'd post this here as this seems to be the main draft chat area at the moment.

Do you think we should go like-for-like? As in somebody who will fill the role of Dunn who he’ll be replacing? Or would it be too difficult to find such a ready-made full back, and instead go for somebody who could best add value in another deficit area? Or look at it holistically and pick the best player who’s got the best chance of playing a footy game for Collingwood?

What’s your thinking there?

2 SANFL games. Two ridiculous totals from a 194cm, 93kg ready-made prospect.
Round 1: 37d, 16m.
Round 2: 38d, 7m.

Absolute perfect fit for Collingwood in the mid-season draft.

Lewis Johnston (Norwood). An ex-Crow/ex-Swan renowned for his powerful overhead marking at that time, he's now a N.Riewoldt/Westhoff on wing equivalent as that aerobic running beast. He absolutely has the versatility to play KPF/KPD, but as a tall wing just leading up at the ball and running all day, he's sensational and the type who in a high possession system like Collingwood would be optimally suited.

Unless his form stagnates, he's the guy Collingwood should be picking during the mid-season draft.

Why is he ex-Swan / ex-Crow? Why didn’t he make it at either club? How long has he been out of the AFL system? How old is he?

I've heard the name Joe Ayton-Delaney (overager for Oakleigh) as someone Collingwood may consider - think high production and speedy wing but with inconsistent skills and an allergy to going in and winning his own ball. With Collingwood in win-now mode, I'd rather get that ideal positional/system fit who is good enough to contend for if not push someone out of the best 22.

We seem to be doing a lot of recruiting from Oakleigh. Do we not have scouts elsewhere anymore? We probably haven’t recruited from WA since Marsh / Williams.

 

[76woodenspooners]

What’s to stop clubs recruiting the highest rated players in the mid-season draft six months ahead of everybody else in the end-of-year draft? Can we only recruit mature age players? And if so, how old does a player need to be to be considered mature age?

 

[Anzacday]

What’s to stop clubs recruiting the highest rated players in the mid-season draft six months ahead of everybody else in the end-of-year draft? Can we only recruit mature age players? And if so, how old does a player need to be to be considered mature age?

They have to have either been on an AFL list or nominated for the 2018 draft.

 

[76woodenspooners]

They have to have either been on an AFL list or nominated for the 2018 draft.

Cool, thanks!

Haven’t there been some late bloomers before who have missed out on being drafted first time around, and then picked up second year and then gone on to do well? (IIRC Tom Langdon is one, but I think there have been higher profile ones at other clubs?)

 

[Knightmare]

Do you think we should go like-for-like? As in somebody who will fill the role of Dunn who he’ll be replacing? Or would it be too difficult to find such a ready-made full back, and instead go for somebody who could best add value in another deficit area? Or look at it holistically and pick the best player who’s got the best chance of playing a footy game for Collingwood?

What’s your thinking there?

Why is he ex-Swan / ex-Crow? Why didn’t he make it at either club? How long has he been out of the AFL system? How old is he?

We seem to be doing a lot of recruiting from Oakleigh. Do we not have scouts elsewhere anymore? We probably haven’t recruited from WA since Marsh / Williams.

There is always a Lucas Cook for a key defender if there is another key defender hurt.

Though as per last year even if there is another key defence injury I think the club can improvise. Howe beat Darling on the weekend, and there was still Moore/Roughead available to take on other key forwards. Reid can still come in. As can Goldsack. Scharenberg will eventually be back. Mihocek can swing back if needed. So I wouldn't add another for the sake of adding unless they're so good that they'll replace Roughead as that second key defender. Jon Marsh may have been that guy but St Kilda have snapped him up.

If Johnston is drafted, he's another where he can swing back pretty easily or situationally in games. I overall just like the options he provides. Can be that tall wing. Can be a swingman. He can really give you what you need. *He turned 28 in March.

I'd lean towards going for the most likely to earn a best 22 position. Or if we don't see anyone in the state leagues as having that ability then you can go for someone younger who has that scope to develop into a best 22 quality type. And maybe that's a S.Cumming, K.Reid, Charlie Wilson (small forward) to name a few who make sense as list fits and have the performances on the board to suggest they could develop.

 

[Knightmare]

I really like the sound of Johnston but with those numbers and attributes expect him to be highly sought after. Expecting a left field out of nowhere selection who can come straight in. I'll be really impressed if you can nail whoever we pick, it's going to be interesting to see who can get this right, potentially a game changing development if clubs get it right just that 1 new player can make all the difference to a side if it rectifies a glaring weakness.

No significant interest from clubs last year and he was getting 30d+ and in the high 20s most weeks.

I think he can be had.

 

[sr36]

T

No significant interest from clubs last year and he was getting 30d+ and in the high 20s most weeks.

I think he can be had.

How old is he?

 

[Knightmare]

T

How old is he?

As per my earlier post *He turned 28 in March.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I’d be all over Tom Wilson as a free hit. Marking and kicking looks very natural and he’s grown from 187 to 194cm apparently since his U18 days.

 

[sr36]

There is always a Lucas Cook for a key defender if there is another key defender hurt.

Though as per last year even if there is another key defence injury I think the club can improvise. Howe beat Darling on the weekend, and there was still Moore/Roughead available to take on other key forwards. Reid can still come in. As can Goldsack. Scharenberg will eventually be back. Mihocek can swing back if needed. So I wouldn't add another for the sake of adding unless they're so good that they'll replace Roughead as that second key defender. Jon Marsh may have been that guy but St Kilda have snapped him up.

If Johnston is drafted, he's another where he can swing back pretty easily or situationally in games. I overall just like the options he provides. Can be that tall wing. Can be a swingman. He can really give you what you need. *He turned 28 in March.

I'd lean towards going for the most likely to earn a best 22 position. Or if we don't see anyone in the state leagues as having that ability then you can go for someone younger who has that scope to develop into a best 22 quality type. And maybe that's a S.Cumming, K.Reid, Charlie Wilson (small forward) to name a few who make sense as list fits and have the performances on the board to suggest they could develop.

I actually think marking wingmen will come back in vogue soon. The WCE defensive structure is so good at forcing teams to go long down the line. Other teams will master it. Teams will start having to accept that they often have to take the zone on and start structuring for it. Sounds like he'd be great for that.

 

[Knightmare]

I actually think marking wingmen will come back in vogue soon. The WCE defensive structure is so good at forcing teams to go long down the line. Other teams will master it. Teams will start having to accept that they often have to take the zone on and start structuring for it. Sounds like he'd be great for that.

Seeing Matthew Richardson in 2008 on the wing with 222 marks and 48 goals in 20 games. 2016 Nick Riewoldt playing the same role with 222 marks and 41 goals from 21 games.

Johnston doesn't have to do that, but he's the state league equivalent of that as that same type playing that same role.

That's hard to match up on.

 

[loki04]

Yeah, of course we’d take a KPF if it didn’t cost anything, but my point was they’re very expensive both in terms of salary cap space and what needs to be traded. And would we pay that price?

I’m sure everybody would clamour to unload JT, Wells, Reid and Varcoe in exchange for Jeremy Cameron ... but that’s not realistic.

Would you trade Grundy and Crisp for Jeremy Cameron?

Or maybe DeGoey, Sidebottom and Philips?

What about Stephenson, Maynard and Moore?

Which of those deals would you do?

That is because we refuse to draft and develop our own.

 

[loki04]

Cool, thanks!

Haven’t there been some late bloomers before who have missed out on being drafted first time around, and then picked up second year and then gone on to do well? (IIRC Tom Langdon is one, but I think there have been higher profile ones at other clubs?)

Matthew Pavlich the most famous one, was completely overlooked the year before freo took at pick 4.