- Banned
- #26
Which threads are you talking about?
I can't think of too many threads where a poster is actually able to quote an official source.
That's what journalists are able to do. That's why their work carries more weight.
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Bigfooty and the new sports media
- Thread starter btdg
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I can't think of too many threads where a poster is actually able to quote an official source.
That's what journalists are able to do. That's why their work carries more weight.
- Banned
- #27
- Nov 13, 2004
- 11,375
- 7
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
- Other Teams
- Aussie Cricket Team, Roy, Punter.
- Banned
- #28
I must admit, at first i was a bit sceptical on our friend Mr Longshanks. But after reading his posts over several weeks i must admit that his work is always balanced, very well written and expressed and in this case, i totally agree with him.
I can't really think of BF breaking stories so to speak, i remember a few years ago finding out that Jon Brown got off at the Tribunial after that choke hold in 2004 before i found out through the media.
I can't really think of BF breaking stories so to speak, i remember a few years ago finding out that Jon Brown got off at the Tribunial after that choke hold in 2004 before i found out through the media.
- Nov 13, 2004
- 11,375
- 7
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
- Other Teams
- Aussie Cricket Team, Roy, Punter.
- Banned
- #29
Well said.
- Banned
- #30
The mass communications landscape is like a crowded room, and the journos are the ones with the microphone.
The general public don't like being shouted at. They don't like being at the bottom of the 'information pyramid'. But they need to convince themselves that they would have more interesting, more intelligent and more accurate things to say if they were the ones holding the microphone. If only they could get it off those pesky, know-nothing journos.
That's what these threads are about.
The general public don't like being shouted at. They don't like being at the bottom of the 'information pyramid'. But they need to convince themselves that they would have more interesting, more intelligent and more accurate things to say if they were the ones holding the microphone. If only they could get it off those pesky, know-nothing journos.
That's what these threads are about.
- Banned
- #31
Hmmm.......well I'm sorry to tell you that you have been stooged then.
GL was a prize goose in Bay 13 and eventually ran away screaming with his tail between his legs after being continually caught short.
As for posters quoting official sources - we certainly have them.
If you are inferring that direct access to the facts will necessarily make someone a better judge you must understand one thing. It is their responsibility to accurately depict the facts so that we, the public, can make up our own minds as well as we possibly can.
Importantly the OP pointed out that they dont always depict the facts accurately, for career reasons. Do you deny this?
It is a very big problem. This may be why many people are, as you are pointing out, ill informed. This is the fault of the media. All of this fluffy rubbish that they pump out causes people to become disillusioned in the sincerity of their ideas. Subsequently they base their judgements on their own opinions, causing, apparently, "depression
" in playersIt's time the media cut the BS. We don't want to hear it. Their job is to inform, and entertain us.
I dont want to hear how some fringe player is asserting his role in the team ffs. It's contrived nonsense and ill have none of it.
Of course BigFooty doesn't break stories. It's a secondary medium. The problem for the newspapers is that if they do manage to break a big story, where do people hear about it, where do they talk about it? On TV, radio and the Internet. TV and radio were bad enough, but at least they were broadcast media where the journos are all professional known quantities. The Internet is a dog's breakfast in comparison.
Newspapers worldwide are bleeding circulation and revenue, it's a global phenomenon. Yet they are the primary generators of quality journalism, and no other media seem to want to step up in their place. BigFooty would be poorer without the primary journalism that the Age/Hun/Oz provide, that is undeniable, but what if there isn't the money to pay all those journos any more because the newspapers get bugger all classified revenue because all of the employers advertise on Seek.com.au? It's a problem that has no solution.
Newspapers worldwide are bleeding circulation and revenue, it's a global phenomenon. Yet they are the primary generators of quality journalism, and no other media seem to want to step up in their place. BigFooty would be poorer without the primary journalism that the Age/Hun/Oz provide, that is undeniable, but what if there isn't the money to pay all those journos any more because the newspapers get bugger all classified revenue because all of the employers advertise on Seek.com.au? It's a problem that has no solution.
The Cranium
BigFootyDesert Dweller
I believe its all about control....
The papers and the media decide WHAT you should see and read. The AFL like to control any web site that portrays OUR game.
The AFL have never listened to the supporter base of OUR great game with reference to that dud of a web site.
Sites like this stemmed from the AFL controlling all of the Clubs web sites.
I assure you, when a game is on in Oz, I will follow the Game Day thread on here, rather than a site that continually crashes.
They never mentioned these sites have moderators / Administrators and RULES.
If they have issues with what is posted....go to them.
The papers and the media decide WHAT you should see and read. The AFL like to control any web site that portrays OUR game.
The AFL have never listened to the supporter base of OUR great game with reference to that dud of a web site.
Sites like this stemmed from the AFL controlling all of the Clubs web sites.
I assure you, when a game is on in Oz, I will follow the Game Day thread on here, rather than a site that continually crashes.
They never mentioned these sites have moderators / Administrators and RULES.
If they have issues with what is posted....go to them.
- Banned
- #35
Robbo is up for a fight though - must of taken some disdain to being asked to justify himself.
BTW - I've never seen anyone try to assume the identity of a footballer - does that happen much/ever?
BTW2 - Where is the official source GL & LTD? Anyone could write this.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23738794-19742,00.html
Players, families caught in vicious web
Mark Robinson | May 22, 2008 12:00am
"Donna", the mum of a player at a Melbourne-based club, believes the forums contribute to her son's depression.
The effect on the player was extreme, she said, and the effect on the parents "cuts straight to the core".
"There's nothing you can do about it," Donna said.
"It's painful for everyone.
"He goes through periods where he has highs and lows and when he gets slandered on this website, they use his full name and it's obviously brutal.
"It certainly contributes to him having a real low that week.
"Then he starts to feel: 'Am I good enough to be here, what do I have to do, I'm trying my guts out, everyone thinks I'm hopeless, I won't be selected'.
"As a parent your heart goes out to your own child, as it does to the other players slandered, and you just feel so futile. You can't do anything.
"It doesn't matter how much you say and try to support them and encourage them, and say: 'Don't read them', there's just nothing you can do."
The AFL Players' Association yesterday in the Herald Sun said blogging by supporters was "cyber bullying".
Clubs also feared the vicious appraisals of their players could lead to forms of depression.
Several clubs revealed they had warned some of their players to boycott the websites.
Player managers also confirmed yesterday their players had struggled to deal with the attacks.
Donna said last night her son's club and coach were aware of her son's depression and that he was the subject of vitriol on websites.
"It's fine for people to say 'harden up', or 'toughen up', but at the end of the day they are still very vulnerable kids trying to learn how to play footy at an elite level," she said.
"They are going to make mistakes and they don't need misinformed, anonymous 'supporters' (to) slander them when half the time the supporters that write about them haven't been to the game, and they don't know the instructions that have been given to these players.
"Yet, they (hide) behind their anonymity and make out they are bigger than Ben Hur, and think they can say whatever they like.
"That's the frustrating and hurtful part of it.
"And these kids, be they 18, 19, 21 or 22, don't have a leg to stand on.
"Some players can do no wrong and escape everything, which is fantastic for them and that's the way it should be, but for others, they just hone in on them.
"Then it just seems to be a never-ending bandwagon."
Donna said she knew of parents who joined blogs to dispute and object to comments made about their sons.
She said she had, as recently as the weekend, spoken to parents of other players about the websites.
Most disturbing, according to the AFLPA's Pippa Grange, was that player identities were being taken and comments being posted under that player's name.
"They get obviously quite upset about that," Grange said.
ANYONE with personal problems can call Lifeline on 131 114; Victorian Statewide Suicide Helpline on 1300 651 251; or Mensline Australia on 1300 789 978.
BTW - I've never seen anyone try to assume the identity of a footballer - does that happen much/ever?
BTW2 - Where is the official source GL & LTD? Anyone could write this.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23738794-19742,00.html
Players, families caught in vicious web
Mark Robinson | May 22, 2008 12:00am
"Donna", the mum of a player at a Melbourne-based club, believes the forums contribute to her son's depression.
The effect on the player was extreme, she said, and the effect on the parents "cuts straight to the core".
"There's nothing you can do about it," Donna said.
"It's painful for everyone.
"He goes through periods where he has highs and lows and when he gets slandered on this website, they use his full name and it's obviously brutal.
"It certainly contributes to him having a real low that week.
"Then he starts to feel: 'Am I good enough to be here, what do I have to do, I'm trying my guts out, everyone thinks I'm hopeless, I won't be selected'.
"As a parent your heart goes out to your own child, as it does to the other players slandered, and you just feel so futile. You can't do anything.
"It doesn't matter how much you say and try to support them and encourage them, and say: 'Don't read them', there's just nothing you can do."
The AFL Players' Association yesterday in the Herald Sun said blogging by supporters was "cyber bullying".
Clubs also feared the vicious appraisals of their players could lead to forms of depression.
Several clubs revealed they had warned some of their players to boycott the websites.
Player managers also confirmed yesterday their players had struggled to deal with the attacks.
Donna said last night her son's club and coach were aware of her son's depression and that he was the subject of vitriol on websites.
"It's fine for people to say 'harden up', or 'toughen up', but at the end of the day they are still very vulnerable kids trying to learn how to play footy at an elite level," she said.
"They are going to make mistakes and they don't need misinformed, anonymous 'supporters' (to) slander them when half the time the supporters that write about them haven't been to the game, and they don't know the instructions that have been given to these players.
"Yet, they (hide) behind their anonymity and make out they are bigger than Ben Hur, and think they can say whatever they like.
"That's the frustrating and hurtful part of it.
"And these kids, be they 18, 19, 21 or 22, don't have a leg to stand on.
"Some players can do no wrong and escape everything, which is fantastic for them and that's the way it should be, but for others, they just hone in on them.
"Then it just seems to be a never-ending bandwagon."
Donna said she knew of parents who joined blogs to dispute and object to comments made about their sons.
She said she had, as recently as the weekend, spoken to parents of other players about the websites.
Most disturbing, according to the AFLPA's Pippa Grange, was that player identities were being taken and comments being posted under that player's name.
"They get obviously quite upset about that," Grange said.
ANYONE with personal problems can call Lifeline on 131 114; Victorian Statewide Suicide Helpline on 1300 651 251; or Mensline Australia on 1300 789 978.
footyfreak
Brownlow Medallist
There are posters on here that have user names that are the names of players but i have never ever seen one of these posters try and pass themselves off as the actual player and to suggest it happens is an absolute joke.
yaco55
Hall of Famer
Gunnar Longshanks
I disagree with you argument that 99% of journalists are better writers than many BIG FOOTY posters.
Newspapers employ Sub-Editors who dont only write headlines but also chop and change stories, as well as grammar and spelling.
I live in Hong Kong and have a mate who is an Sub-Editor for the South China Post ( the leading English language newspaper in Asia ) who complains that the standard of writing is frankly deplorable.
I disagree with you argument that 99% of journalists are better writers than many BIG FOOTY posters.
Newspapers employ Sub-Editors who dont only write headlines but also chop and change stories, as well as grammar and spelling.
I live in Hong Kong and have a mate who is an Sub-Editor for the South China Post ( the leading English language newspaper in Asia ) who complains that the standard of writing is frankly deplorable.
- Banned
- #38
Funny stuff.
Bay 13 is nothing but gooses. That's what it was created for.
And I have never ran away from anything I posted. I just got sick of repeating myself over and over, especially when those disagreeing with me were unable or unwilling to engage directly with my arguments.
- Banned
- #39
Gunnar, if you have re-invented yourself in here all I can say is good luck to you.
However you and I both know better than to accept your above post at face value.
- Banned
- #40
I'm not sure how you drew this conclusion from my posts.
I didn't say anything like this.
You've filled in a few gaps there.
But I agree that it is a journalist's responsibility to present the facts as accurately as possible.
I don't deny that there are instances of sloppy journalism, but the speculation surrounding their motives is just your guesswork.
But do you have a specific example in mind? Otherwise we're just talking in generalisations.
Even then, just because sloppy journalism exists, that's not an inadequate basis for the sweeping conclusion that traditional media, as an institution, is now defunct.
What would it be replaced by? BigFooty? Because there's nothing remotely sloppy about any of the posts on this forum, is there?
If you're going to bag the traditional media for being sloppy, unaccountable and innaccurate, you can't then turn around and trumpet online forums as an alternative. Because those online forums are sloppier, less accurate and demand less accountability.
You can't have it both ways. What you abhor in traditional media, you celebrate about BigFooty. It makes no sense.
This is pretty woolly.This may be why many people are, as you are pointing out, ill informed. This is the fault of the media. All of this fluffy rubbish that they pump out causes people to become disillusioned in the sincerity of their ideas. Subsequently they base their judgements on their own opinions, causing, apparently, "depression
If people are ill-informed, it is for reasons more diverse than "the media".
"The media" is not some monolithic entity that you can blame for all of society's ills. That's a cop-out.
- Banned
- #41
You get less journalists.
Bloggers, chatters caught in vicious web
And_ROOS | May 22, 2008 04:34am
"Sally", the mother of an online chat user, believes Mark Robinson's stupidity lead to windows Vista crashing and her son resigning from the internet.
"Theres nothing you can do about it, when you load up his picture, an article, anything, the computer realises you are looking at something horrible and forces a shut down."
"These journalists get paid lots of money for often incorrect opinions, and now they are telling lies about honest forum users because they don't like being shown up for the incompetent buffoons they are."
Anyone with Vista problems can call Microsoft, where they will tell you where to shove it and hang up on you.
And_ROOS | May 22, 2008 04:34am
"Sally", the mother of an online chat user, believes Mark Robinson's stupidity lead to windows Vista crashing and her son resigning from the internet.
"Theres nothing you can do about it, when you load up his picture, an article, anything, the computer realises you are looking at something horrible and forces a shut down."
"These journalists get paid lots of money for often incorrect opinions, and now they are telling lies about honest forum users because they don't like being shown up for the incompetent buffoons they are."
Anyone with Vista problems can call Microsoft, where they will tell you where to shove it and hang up on you.
- Banned
- #43
I know the SCMP.
How is it these days?
You mightn't believe me when I say this, but my grandfather actually edited that paper many years ago.
But I digress.
Of course journos have sub-editors who check copy. That doesn't mean that journos can't write.
I'm not saying that every journo is a budding Ernest Hemmingway, but they have an economy of language and expression largely absent from forums like this.
- Banned
- #44
What's this "you and I both know" malarkey?
If you disagree with something I've said, then go ahead and demonstrate where I'm wrong.
Right, and which are the first journos to go? The ones doing the investigative journalism, the stuff that really makes newspapers worth reading, because that's the most expensive kind. Fairfax is now run by accountants, according to their own staff, and News Ltd has never been the leader in quality reportage.
The real problem here is that newspapers and MSM journos sit behind the ramparts and fire potshots at new media, instead of what they should be doing, which is lowering the drawbridge and engaging with their readers. You only have to see the transcript of Robbo's "online chat" about his Bomber trade story to see that he's not comfortable with online environments. The newspapers have such a golden opportunity to cement their place in society by building relationships with their reader base through online communication, but they are either unwilling or unable to do so.
- Banned
- #46
If you want me to reveal your tragic and misguided past to all your new friends Gunnar, I am more than happy to oblige.
However you will have to wait until I have some sleep and then clear my workload for today.
But good things come to those who wait.
You need an example of a journalist not providing a readable and incisive article? C'mon, that's extremely pedantic, even for you.
AFL players driven to suicide by comments on the internerds?
Good lord...I believe someone may be stroking something small and meaty...
- Banned
- #49
This is just hot air, champ.
In this thread, all you've done is huff and puff.
You've made no valid points whatsoever.
I have an inkling of which thread you're talking about. You're naive enough to think that it's some kind of silver bullet. But if I have to re-hash all those arguments for the millionth time, so be it. You'll come up short at the end of it all. Just like all the rest.
- Banned
- #50
Well, at least point to something so we can discuss specifics.
Otherwise it's just a rudderless generalisation.
