Bigfooty Prodigy Project - ppg05

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CrippsonBlue

CrippsonBlue

Cancelled
Apr 7, 2008
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Perth
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Well I am one of two guys GlovedLikeGrgic has taken on for this project.

Stars name: ppg882005

Details found here: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=899550

Background

I started playing online in 2008, and have stuck to tournaments for the majority of this time. I've tried stints in cash games, stsngs and dons in efforts to build a bankroll and take the game more serious, but became disgruntled each time and continued to play tournaments.

The last year I've mainly played live - maybe at an estimate I'd say I played 100hrs, so nothing serious. Didn't keep any sorts of records - I've come out on top, but nothing major.

My main source in learning the game to this point has simply been through playing it, and this forum basically. Have never spent time reading theories, or analysing my games etc.

Goals

I think I'm basically at a point where if I'm not putting genuine effort into improving my game, then I don't see any point continuing apart from the odd live tournament for fun. Without this opportunity I probably would have simply done that, however I'm glad to give it another crack as I obviously wouldn't have stuck around so long if I wasn't addicted to the game.

Plan over next few months is really just to focus my attention on the $2/180s, and put in the effort to learn about the game, and learn about improving my own game.

I will aim to play 30+ hours a week, and then another several reading and learning. Obviously I'm looking for gradual improvements, being able to play more tables, and be in a position to move up in levels.

I could list specific areas, like HU play, but already the model I'm following is completely different to how I would have played these sngs, so my whole game is basically getting a makeover.

__________

I'll aim to update this thread weekly with how I am tracking, and any thoughts. My results will probably say a lot about the difference of those that simply put hours into playing the game, and those that put hours into learning all aspects of the game.
 

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So far both guys have only had there meet and greet with me, the sending of some documents on how to play 180's and little chat while I was playing some TCOOP events, the first full coaching session will be this week.

Both players are using there own bankroll and I am doing this for no personal fee but each player will be donating 10% of any money made during this project to a Youth Mental Health Charity of there choice.
 
Cheers for the support guys.

Week 1 Results

Thoughts

Ok well as GLG indicated, we started out mainly with a meet and greet, and the coaching session scheduled for earlier this week didn't go ahead, so my source of learning this week been from the docs he sent us.

These docs however lay out a method of how to play these 180sngs though plus a lot of info to learn and think about, so I've still had a bit to go off.

Biggest thing to overcome this week was changing my style of play - Sharkscope says I've played 1000/1400 games as Sng's (surprised at that tbh), so it certainly took a bit of effort at times.

So many times I wanted to play hands/make plays that contradicted with GLG's methods - usually when I couldn't resist, it was to my detriment to be honest, so over the course of the week I did learn to trust his method more and more.

I started 4 tabling these, but was mostly 6 tabling by end of week without any dramas.

Beginning of the week I constantly referred to his notes, but towards the end it was mainly just late in games, and with a lot less frequency, so this was probably the biggest positive I take from this week.

Also, I really did see his method working by the end of the week - players seemed to constantly make marginal calls against me, and by the end of the week I cared less about end results, and more focused on ensuring this happened more and more (well mostly).

Anyway, my actual results:

- 22.5 Hours (In lieu of a coaching session, plus a public holiday, thought this was reasonable)
- 103 games (~7% of my total games over 4 years in 1 week!)
- 10.48% ROI
- 11 cashes, FT 64% when I did cash, but only finished better than 6th 29% when I did (2 x 2nd place)

Obviously happy for a profit in week 1, and pretty happy with these first results. I will say though I accidentally registered into a $8 180 man sng and finished 7th, so obviously this played a big part in a positive ROI, but I still got the result so whatever...

Goals for next week:

- To back up a positive ROI, but solely from $2/180 results this time
- Hopefully have a coaching session as I am keen to start implementing some programs, and getting some pointers.
- At least maintain percentage of FT when I cash
- Increase my percentage of going deep when I do FT
- Decrease the times my plays stray from GLG's model
- Hit the 30+ hours
 
With TCOOP ending this week the coaching sessions should be going full on ahead from this week with hopefully 2 this week for each player.

Its good to have a understanding of where a players starting from when you do coaching sessions so hopefully we will see some huge error's in the hands that can be fixed with not much effort that will see a huge gain in there roi's.

This week im going to show them how to use SNG Wizard and how we review our own games via the program. The times they review with me will basically be me showing them things that are outside the box and that can't be shown by a program but there time on there own should be spent as much on learning the proper process as it is playing the game in these early stages.
 
Well there's no staking deal in place as of the moment with us, but in terms of whether it would serve as a deterrent/make me think twice about getting involved in a staking deal - not at all.

Regardless of who is in the wrong, fundamentally these issues can usually be tracked to a lack of clear communication and mutual understanding/agreement.

It only takes one of the two parties to ensure this occurs, and given that, it would be very unlikely a problem would occur imo.

Applying that this this situation - sure he may have told him that his preference was for him not to use hotmail, but what he should have done is said that if you continue to use hotmail against my advice, be aware that any loss of funds will be 100% your responsibility etc.

I mean jeez, the advice against using hotmail was because of fears of getting hacked, so why wouldn't you address the responsibility of each party if this were to occur - especially when he kept using it!

As for the 10k, I don't see this as relevant to their staking deal at all - it's essentially akin to lending your mate money. This can end bad at the best of times, let alone when significant money, and essentially gamblers, are involved.

So yeah - I wouldn't fear the hacking problem/any other sort of problem because I would always personally ensure total clarity, and again it only takes one party.

And I wouldn't fear the 10k issues because a) I wouldn't lend the money, and b) I am not a knob that would accept the money but not pay it back (I know this particular circumstance happened differently, but it's the same thing imo).

Overall, yeah he owes him the full lot imo, however I think the staker has to own some responsibility for not being clear about what would happen should he get hacked - had he made this clear, he shouldn't budge on expecting it all, but in light of this, it's probably a big enough mistake to have him accept 50% if the guy is deciding to be a dick.
 
red+black said:
Would the two of you like to comment on the Dong/brendooor situation?
Click to expand...

You dont do staking as a part of a friendship, sure I stake a few of my friends but they know that once they join #teamglovedlikegrgic Online then friendship does not matter when it comes to business.

The money that was "hacked" under any contract giving by me would be on the player to repay and is a written part of our contract that gives full responsibility to a player. From the sounds of it he didnt even have a RSA token and any playing playing mtts over $55 or cash $200nl or higher needs to be using a RSA.

The 10k is a harder thing to comment on due to not knowing both sides of the story but with Dong not bringing it up than really I can see there being a fight over things. End of the day if you are a player like Dong and wish to keep playing than the only way to do it is to team up with someone like me. The 2 biggest online funds (with a few live funds being huge in $ terms but not player terms) are Zima (Runs the every day staking side of things) and Elio Fox (Poker Sicko) and my group which is run by one of the best 6 max players in the world and myself who runs the every day business of it.

End of the day when you are running a staking company you should have someone's who has his sole focus on the fund, ppg05 was able to join in a group sessions yesterday with 3-4 guys very very good players and a few guys who started just above where he was when he joined and got to listen to myself and one of my players going in depth about aspects of the game and got to meet some others that in time he will get to know and chat hands to all day every day. People that are only staking one person or a couple can't do things like this, nor will they spend a huge % of time in there horse so its very rare that a one on one staking deal works the way people think they do.

Business is Business
Friends are friends.
Keep it that way.

In other news im very happy with how things are going with both guys they have both respond well to the coaching and im very interested to see how they go the next few days.

Ill be setting both up with table ninja this week and then we are really going to focus on playing a lot of hands and getting to learn how to mass table.
 
Week 2 Results

Thoughts:

So mini recap from week 1 - main learning focus was on opening hands.

While it is great to have an idea of what to open, I was largely confused in a number of spots as to what my calling range should be, and I think it was clearly becoming an issue.

Before our first coaching session on Monday night, my ROI was -40% across 80 games for the week.

Since then, I've had 3 coaching sessions, which included a sit in on a group session as GLG indicated - obviously a number of things come up, but the focus of my learning this week has largely been in range definitions. We got shown poker stove, and I have been fiddling with it a fair bit since.

After the first coaching session, I dropped back to 4 tables this week so I could incorporate poker stove while I played.

This was great - I was laying down hands in spots I would normally expect to call, I was calling in spots I would usually fold etc. and overall just getting a good understanding about ranges.

My results will show how beneficial these coaching sessions have been, keeping in mind where they were at before the first session...

Weekly Results:

- 25 Hours*
- 122 Games
- +25.29% ROI
- 9 cashes, FT 67% when I did cash, finished 3rd or better 67% of the time when I made FT

*In terms of my weekly hours, I think I will drop my expected hours from 30+ to 25+ hours. Given I'm spending a lot of time outside of actually playing in learning also, this seems reasonable. When more of this stuff starts to become second nature and I can spend more hours simply playing, I'll move it back up to 30+. I expect this to occur in the next month/month and a half.

Overall Results:

Games: 225
ROI: +18.51

Goals:

Looking at my goals from last week, I hit them all apart from the hours, which is great. (Maybe the second last one is a bit iffy, but since Monday it is certainly a tick).

Goals for next week are more of the same - not sure there's any point in continuously stating the obvious in that I'm looking for a positive ROI etc.

Will add that I am looking forward to incorporating table ninja this week, and getting those number of games up.

I'll keep this section and talk about my goals, but i won't bother outlining them beforehand.

One obvious goal I should have added last week was to ship one of these tournaments - I achieved that once this week also, woot!
 
Cheers

What was the most "interesting" piece of advice you have received so far?
Click to expand...

I do have an answer, well even a couple of things, but as it relates to game tactics, I'm reluctant to share it without having spoken with GLG.

Not sure I can put that anyway without sounding like a dick, but yeah GLG is doing all this work for no expected profit, so I'd rather err on the side of caution with such questions.

Which bit of advice changed your game the most from your previous mindset?
Click to expand...

Coming back to my OP, I mean I just didn't spend anytime thinking about things like ranges, equity, etc.

To highlight my lack of proper effort to improve my game, I ignored learning about the importance of position until last year when I thought perhaps I should give it some consideration.

So the real answer to your question is all the advice has been of equal importance because I'm coming from a long way back, despite being a 4+ year player.

For instance, when I spoke about the focus of my first week's learning being on opening hands, my previous mindset was basically a one size fits all approach, i.e. ok well this is a pretty hand, so open it derp.

Now though for the first time my opens are factoring in position, stacks, blind level etc. and obviously are constantly changing.

A great bit of advice relating to this was 'don't just open to open'.

Even though someone might read this and say well obviously you factor all that in, truth is the majority of players out there aren't even if they think they are, at least certainly not consistently, and certainly not at a level of thinking/understanding to know why they are/should be doing it.

I did previously believe I was factoring other things into my calls/opens, but I can see now that they were either a) useless in isolation or b) actually not that important.

Example: Maybe a little exaggerated, but previous thinking was, ok a guy has shoved so I'll fold my A6o, but wait a minute this guy is loose, so I should call with my A6o. My old mindset would think this was an experienced play because I made adjustments to my calling range based on other factors.

Now it's like, well sure he may be shoving lighter, but even against an increase in expected range, A6o doesn't have the equity, plus there's still 6 guys to act, so obvious fold.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming to be an expert on all this after two weeks, because well I'm not, but the advice about the importance of all this, and then seeing how it is changing my game in a practical sense is crazy. I'm not even talking about ROI, I'm talking about well I just got knocked out, but I got that guy to call with junk.

I realise I'm probably just rambling and not even sure I'm covering your question at all - ok attempt to specifically answer your question would be:

Answer = Edges

This probably best summarizes what I'm trying to get at I think.

How this has changed my mindset - well I know not to overplay hands early in tournaments, and I am not missing opportunities late in tournaments etc.

Basically maximising my edge as much as possible.

This just wasn't a factor at all in my game before, and I didn't understand it, or care for it.

I probably realistically only have a brief understanding of all this regardless of what I think, but the fact it's an actual consideration, and for the right reasons, well I think that alone is responsible for my ROI turn around pre coaching session and post.

I've tried to explain all this to my wife - she thinks the turn around is simply due to luck!
 

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PPG05 thats one of best post about how the small changes after a few sessions that I have seen. Feel free to post anything about bit's of advice you have been giving as long as there not direct quotes from my coaching guides.

It's hard for myself to find to much time to actually sit down and have session's with guys one on one as it means ive got to turn off skype etc and stop replying to everyone which is a very -ev move for me. Hopefully with the help of table ninja he will be able to lift his total tables and once he learns the rough ranges of what is a 25% range, what is a 40% range etc Ill move on to helping him understand the correct way to play with a HEM.
 
At this early stage I've heavily relied on GLG's coaching guides, so the examples I was thinking of did stem from them.

Given what GLG has just said though, from here on out I'll happily share more specific insight/detail as it comes up along the way.

For the immediate future, the truth is my learning is really just going to come from putting in hours, reviewing, going over all the topics and info again and again etc. so I don't think one on ones are that vital now anyway.

Table ninja should be the big one, so after GLG has had a chance to give me a run down, there will still be heaps of learning from increased games/hands, and hopefully getting to sit in on as many of his group coaching sessions as possible.
 
Week 3 Results

Doubt I'll be loading any more tables up tonight, so this ends another week.

Thoughts:

Week 2 mini recap - main learning focus was on ranges/equity.

I'll start by saying there won't be a whole lot to take out of this week - I spent most of it sick, had an important event on, and well there's just no way I was at the top of my game.

I had just the one session with GLG this week, which was a run down of Table Ninja.

I also didn't devote any time advancing my learning in various game aspects - so what did I do, well I played around with Table Ninja I guess.

I tried sessions 12 tabling, 15 tables, etc. 20 tables on the go was the most I think. That was fun.

After burning through the money with those experiences, I think I've settled on 8 tables for now - this allows me time to use poker stove during games, but importantly allows me to keep track of every table, which at this stage is fairly important and beneficial for a number of reasons.

Something else I wanted to add - as part of this, GLG wanted us to donate 10% of winnings to his chosen charity. I think I'll do this at the end of every 4 weeks of training (so first will be next week).

Weekly Results:

- 18.5 Hours
- 135 Games
- + 7.87% ROI
- 13 Cashes, FT 62% when I did cash, finished 3rd or better 25% of time when I made FT

Overall Results:

Games: 360
ROI: +14.52

Goals:

Not really worth addressing this week - hours down due to above reasons, poor percent of going deep on FT & ROI lowest result so far can be attributed to this also, but considering my ROI had been negative for most of the week, to end up with a positive ROI under the circumstances is a decent win.

Next week again is a bit of the same, as my hours will be down due to commitments, but no reason I can't get that ROI up though, so focus will be now sticking to 8-tabling, trying to get at least one coaching session in, and getting as close to 20 hours as I can.
 
Putting this on hold for ~2 weeks.

Week 4 Results

Thoughts:

Just a short summary this time.

Was a frustrating week - made FT 10 times but only finished better than 6th twice.

I made a couple of clear mistakes, but also feeling like I'm losing a fair share of big pots late despite getting it in at good spots. Anyway, didn't really have the time that week to evaluate, so will look at this issue when I start up again.

Weekly Results:

- 17.5 Hours
- 113 Games
- + 11.58% ROI
- 15 Cashes, FT 67% when I did cash, finished better than 6th 20% of time when I made FT

My stats over the journey of making FT when I cash have been great, but it's that second one of going deep on FT that has been letting me down.

Overall Results:

Games: 473
ROI: +13.82
 
Thanks PPG05 for posting updates on your progress, keep them coming

Just wanted to let you know that I am reading them and enjoying even though I have not made any specifc comment on them.

What ever happened to the other Prodigy?. havent seen any update on their progress?
 
I'm continuously putting this off - with work commitments increasing etc I'm just not going to be able to put in the hours for this.

Still, was a pretty generous offer by GLG so perhaps someone can take over from me? If interested PM me/post in this thread but just read the OP first to be sure you can make the required commitments otherwise it'll be a waste like my venture.

I'll contact GLG if anyone shows interest (if he doesn't respond himself) to confirm he is happy with this arrangement, but if someone is willing to make a commitment I am sure it won't be a problem.

To save GLG from going over old ground, I am happy to do a few coaching sessions to start someone off, and basically bring them up to speed to where I was, then hand back over to GLG.
 
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