Biglands

[Alex99]

Mental abberation - Griffin of course.

What's with the , Mr Perfection??

No the was more like why didn't he join him. that he is still on the list.

But that's another story.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Macca you are contradicting yourself, you say we arent going to win a flag for a minimum 3 years. Then you call for a 30 yr old ruckman coming off a knee to be converted into a forward? What would that achieve? Based on what you said we arent going to win the flag anyway, so whats the point?
And I think you must have rose coloured glasses on when it comes to Biglands, when in comparison to AFL ruckmen he would have to be in the bottom 10% for contested marks, so how all of sudden is he going to be a key marking forward with a backman hanging onto him week in week out.

This thread is going no where as the same argument keeps getting repeated.

Exactly!

 

[maccas_no1]

Very unfair on a ruckman who has averaged 15 hit-outs per game in his 134 games, considering that normally he spends a maximum of half a game on the ground each game.

Several sides would have liked to have Biglands in their side. St Kilda, Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon and the Bulldogs just to name some.

Sadly for Biglands, this injury has occurred at a critical stage of his career. He is contracted until the end of this year only, by which time he will be 30, and if Maric Meesen and Griffin all blossom and sign on for longer, his AFL career might well be over.

While I agree with your post overall, Drummond, I can't see the necessity to slag an injured servant of the club who has been a consistent contributor for several years just to emphasize your point.

Exactly my reason for wanting him retained and why he is a a great asset for the AFC but hey people on this board will shoot you down no matter what without bringing the facts into the equation

There are plenty worse on the AFC list ahead of Biglands as I said the pressure is on Welsh, Perrie and co this year to make sure they are around next year, they are all getting older and are all under performing, how many times in the finals at critical times did Perrie drop marks that were 'bread butter' ????????

 

[Crow Envy]

Exactly my reason for wanting him retained and why he is a a great asset for the AFC but hey people on this board will shoot you down no matter what without bringing the facts into the equation

There are plenty worse on the AFC list ahead of Biglands as I said the pressure is on Welsh, Perrie and co this year to make sure they are around next year, they are all getting older and are all under performing, how many times in the finals at critical times did Perrie drop marks that were 'bread butter' ????????

Macca so is this what you are agreeing with?

Sadly for Biglands, this injury has occurred at a critical stage of his career. He is contracted until the end of this year only, by which time he will be 30, and if Maric Meesen and Griffin all blossom and sign on for longer, his AFL career might well be over.

I would think the above outlines it very well and its full of facts!

 

[CrowMagnum]

Very unfair on a ruckman who has averaged 15 hit-outs per game in his 134 games, considering that normally he spends a maximum of half a game on the ground each game.

Several sides would have liked to have Biglands in their side. St Kilda, Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon and the Bulldogs just to name some.

Sadly for Biglands, this injury has occurred at a critical stage of his career. He is contracted until the end of this year only, by which time he will be 30, and if Maric Meesen and Griffin all blossom and sign on for longer, his AFL career might well be over.

While I agree with your post overall, Drummond, I can't see the necessity to slag an injured servant of the club who has been a consistent contributor for several years just to emphasize your point.

How many of those taps went to our midfielders though? Most games in recent years we've had at least 1 bad quarter and more often than not its coincided with Clarke or Hudson going off the ball.

In any case I thought our ruck division was a glaring weakness in the 2nd half of last year. The opposition midfields had us worked out and were generally roving to Clarke's taps, and Biglands just tapped it anywhere at random rather than to our guys anyway. Our clearances were often less than the opposition even when we were winning well but we were good enough to mop up at half back and attack from there early on, and this dried up late season. It will be a good chance to work out some fresh ruck strategies and could end up being a strength this year rather than the gloom predicted.

 

[Alex99]

Exactly my reason for wanting him retained and why he is a a great asset for the AFC but hey people on this board will shoot you down no matter what without bringing the facts into the equation

There are plenty worse on the AFC list ahead of Biglands as I said the pressure is on Welsh, Perrie and co this year to make sure they are around next year, they are all getting older and are all under performing, how many times in the finals at critical times did Perrie drop marks that were 'bread butter' ????????

You missed the point again Marty; the reason Rhett Biglands is under the pump. One, a 30 year old with a 12 month knee injury (dosn't help) and Two, we currently have Ivan Maric and John Meesen who are ready to replace Rhett Biglands in the side. If we had 2 good young key forwards who are ready to play AFL football then Scott Welsh, Ian Perrie and Ken McGregor would be looked at, but we are 2 years from that point.

If James Sellar and Kurt Tippett develop into the players (that many hope they do) and are good enough to play as a key forward then yes Ian Perrie, Scott Welsh and Ken McGregor would be in the same boat as Biglands is. But they are not ready yet.

 

[maccas_no1]

You missed the point again Marty; the reason Rhett Biglands is under the pump. One, a 30 year old with a 12 month knee injury (dosn't help) and Two, we currently have Ivan Maric and John Meesen who are ready to replace Rhett Biglands in the side. If we had 2 good young key forwards who are ready to play AFL football then Scott Welsh, Ian Perrie and Ken McGregor would be looked at, but we are 2 years from that point.

If James Sellar and Kurt Tippett develop into the players (that many hope they do) and are good enough to play as a key forward then yes Ian Perrie, Scott Welsh and Ken McGregor would be in the same boat as Biglands is. But they are not ready yet.

Maric and Meeson havent prooven their ready to take on the ruck duties yet

 

[Alex99]

Maric and Meeson havent prooven their ready to take on the ruck duties yet

And as long as we keep players like Rhett Biglands and Kris Massie on the list they never ********ing will.

So when do you propose that they are likely to be ready, after another 12 months in the SANFL?

 

[maccas_no1]

And as long as we keep players like Rhett Biglands and Kris Massie on the list they never ********ing will.

So when do you propose that they are likely to be ready, after another 12 months in the SANFL?

No need to get abusive yet again, we dont know if they are ready this year we will find out, but your ridiculous statement to wipe off the likes of Biglands and Massie is utter rubbish.

 

[Alex99]

No need to get abusive yet again, we dont know if they are ready this year we will find out, but your ridiculous statement to wipe off the likes of Biglands and Massie is utter rubbish.

You don’t feel the need to answer any question regarding how you have contradicted yourself in this thread?

 

[Crow-mo]

Maric and Meeson havent prooven their ready to take on the ruck duties yet

what's slightly sad, is that this needed to be said.

 

[Allefgib]

Bit suprised how a compromise of arugments hasn't managed to be reached on this thread.

Surely we can all agree that all things going well Biglands probably will not have a significant role to play in 2008?

Surely we can also all agree that it makes sense to keep him around and motivated to complete his recovery because who knows what can happen with the other 3 ruckmen on our list ahead of him? What if Hudson does his knee again and Meesen goes home?

Not sure I entirely agree with turning Biglands into a tall forward but what I think can be said fairly is this. Biglands has been a great servant to the club. He has been a reasonable ruckmen and last year added a bit up forward. Things going to plan we probably won't need him much in the future and thats good for the club and a shame for him. He's been good enough and given enough to be kept around in case things don't go to plan.

 

[maccas_no1]

You don’t feel the need to answer any question regarding how you have contradicted yourself in this thread?

Look Biglands is in a tough spot no doubt but de-list/retire him would be a unwise move by the AFC, as I said Meeson and Maric have their opportunity and at this stage they havent proved anything, you are assuming they will both come up trumps and also Hudson will hold his own, you are jumping the gun by about 18 mths

 

[maccas_no1]

Bit suprised how a compromise of arugments hasn't managed to be reached on this thread.

Surely we can all agree that all things going well Biglands probably will not have a significant role to play in 2008?

Surely we can also all agree that it makes sense to keep him around and motivated to complete his recovery because who knows what can happen with the other 3 ruckmen on our list ahead of him? What if Hudson does his knee again and Meesen goes home?

Not sure I entirely agree with turning Biglands into a tall forward but what I think can be said fairly is this. Biglands has been a great servant to the club. He has been a reasonable ruckmen and last year added a bit up forward. Things going to plan we probably won't need him much in the future and thats good for the club and a shame for him. He's been good enough and given enough to be kept around in case things don't go to plan.

Excellenet post and those ar my reasons as to why he should be retained.

Massie well I dont know what C98 has against him he is barely 26 and yet he wants him of the AFC list Has had a great couple of seasons is tough and not backwards in having a crack, IMO Massie > Reilly.

 

[Crow Envy]

Bit suprised how a compromise of arugments hasn't managed to be reached on this thread.

Surely we can all agree that all things going well Biglands probably will not have a significant role to play in 2008?

Surely we can also all agree that it makes sense to keep him around and motivated to complete his recovery because who knows what can happen with the other 3 ruckmen on our list ahead of him? What if Hudson does his knee again and Meesen goes home?

Not sure I entirely agree with turning Biglands into a tall forward but what I think can be said fairly is this. Biglands has been a great servant to the club. He has been a reasonable ruckmen and last year added a bit up forward. Things going to plan we probably won't need him much in the future and thats good for the club and a shame for him. He's been good enough and given enough to be kept around in case things don't go to plan.

Well said and what we have been trying to say.

Macca I dont think anyone called for him to be delisted now, we were merely pointing out that his chances going forward are going to be limited if the Crows had a good 2007 because then it would show we have developed. And if our young ruckmen do develop in 07 there may not be a spot for him in 08. Why would we delist him now? he is under contract and it would serve no purpose.

 

[jenny61_99]

I think 12 months is a LONG time in football.... that's what I think!

 

[maccas_no1]

Well said and what we have been trying to say.

Macca I dont think anyone called for him to be delisted now, we were merely pointing out that his chances going forward are going to be limited if the Crows had a good 2007 because then it would show we have developed. And if our young ruckmen do develop in 07 there may not be a spot for him in 08. Why would we delist him now? he is under contract and it would serve no purpose.

C98 wanted him to be told to retire, he still wants Biglands to retire, which is just a very unwise thought, since neither Maric or Meeson have proved anything at this stage, where as C98 has already slotted them into the ruck without seeing how the go through an entire gruelling AFL season, as Jenny says 12 mths is a longtime in footy, throwing players to the wolves isnt smart.

 

[Alex99]

Excellenet post and those ar my reasons as to why he should be retained.

Massie well I dont know what C98 has against him he is barely 26 and yet he wants him of the AFC list Has had a great couple of seasons is tough and not backwards in having a crack, IMO Massie > Reilly.

DOB: 30/05/1980 (Brent Reilly DOB: 12/11/1983)

Making him 26 and almost 27 in May.

In 2004 Kris Massie played 12 games, 2005 he only managed to play 3, last season he had his best season at the club and was still overlooked for a place in the finals side.

According to you, the AFC in 2005 and 2006 missed a perfect opportunity to win a premiership (isn’t that every clubs objective, every year) and in 2007 we are going too slide down the ladder so "2007 is the beginning of the rebuild"

If we don’t have a legitimate chance at winning the premiership in 2007 (like you said) why are we persisting with the like of Kris Massie as a midfield option? This is what you said “2007 is the beginning of the rebuild, while we have wise heads in the likes of Goodwin, Ricciuto, McLeod, Edwards and some guns in Rutten, Johncock, Bock, Van Berlo we will not beat good quality, hard running clubs like West Coast, Western Bulldogs. “[Macca_no1 (2007) “Biglands” Pg 4]

Wouldn’t it be wiser to play Van Berlo, Douglas, Pheffer or Knights who will get better and have plenty of up side to there game now and let them learn from Goodwin, Edwards, Ricciuto, McLeod?

Now that we have no chance at winning a premiership in 2007 it is absolutely unthinkable to delist a 27 year old who is holding back the next generation midfield players. If we cannot win a premiership with this group of players we have to move forward and give an opportunity to the likes of Van Berlo, Douglas, Pheffer, Knights, Vince and MacKay.

So in 2010 when we become a premiership threat again and Kris Massie is 30 he will be able to influence games like Simon Goodwin, Tyson Edwards, Mark Ricciuto and Andrew McLeod do now? I am sorry but I highly doubt it.

In 2 or 3 years time Nathan Van Berlo and Richard Douglas hopefully they will have played 80 – 100 more games and will be ready to assume that leadership position in the midfield after a few stars have retired.

Time for Kris Massie to go after this season.

 

[Alex99]

C98 wanted him to be told to retire, he still wants Biglands to retire, which is just a very unwise thought, since neither Maric or Meeson have proved anything at this stage, where as C98 has already slotted them into the ruck without seeing how the go through an entire gruelling AFL season, as Jenny says 12 mths is a longtime in footy, throwing players to the wolves isnt smart.

How many games is Rhett Biglands going to ruck this year Marty? NONE

Come 2008 regardless of how the season pans out, it will be time to look towards the forward and the future ruckman at the AFC are Ivan Maric and John Meesen. 2008 we will have to move forward with a new generation of players.

Had Rhett Biglands not injured his knee in the preliminary final it would be a different story, but he did.

 

[maccas_no1]

DOB: 30/05/1980 (Brent Reilly DOB: 12/11/1983)

Making him 26 and almost 27 in May.

In 2004 Kris Massie played 12 games, 2005 he only managed to play 3, last season he had his best season at the club and was still overlooked for a place in the finals side.

According to you, the AFC in 2005 and 2006 missed a perfect opportunity to win a premiership (isn’t that every clubs objective, every year) and in 2007 we are going too slide down the ladder so "2007 is the beginning of the rebuild"

If we don’t have a legitimate chance at winning the premiership in 2007 (like you said) why are we persisting with the like of Kris Massie as a midfield option? This is what you said “2007 is the beginning of the rebuild, while we have wise heads in the likes of Goodwin, Ricciuto, McLeod, Edwards and some guns in Rutten, Johncock, Bock, Van Berlo we will not beat good quality, hard running clubs like West Coast, Western Bulldogs. “[Macca_no1 (2007) “Biglands” Pg 4]

Wouldn’t it be wiser to play Van Berlo, Douglas, Pheffer or Knights who will get better and have plenty of up side to there game now and let them learn from Goodwin, Edwards, Ricciuto, McLeod?

Now that we have no chance at winning a premiership in 2007 it is absolutely unthinkable to delist a 27 year old who is holding back the next generation midfield players. If we cannot win a premiership with this group of players we have to move forward and give an opportunity to the likes of Van Berlo, Douglas, Pheffer, Knights, Vince and MacKay.

So in 2010 when we become a premiership threat again and Kris Massie is 30 he will be able to influence games like Simon Goodwin, Tyson Edwards, Mark Ricciuto and Andrew McLeod do now? I am sorry but I highly doubt it.

In 2 or 3 years time Nathan Van Berlo and Richard Douglas hopefully they will have played 80 – 100 more games and will be ready to assume that leadership position in the midfield after a few stars have retired.

Time for Kris Massie to go after this season.

So on your theory why dont the AFC delist Doughty and Shirley while they are at it Surely they are holding up the progress of the younger players also??? Massie isnt stopping the progress of any of the younger players, he can play at CHB which is a role he will need to fill this year due to Bock being forced to play forward, just because a player doesnt play finals doesnt mean they get delisted, that is a ridiculous statement.

Keep crossing the days off the calander until the first game and leave the list management to the AFC

 

[Alex99]

So on your theory why dont the AFC delist Doughty and Shirley while they are at it Surely they are holding up the progress of the younger players also??? Massie isnt stopping the progress of any of the younger players, he can play at CHB which is a role he will need to fill this year due to Bock being forced to play forward, just because a player doesnt play finals doesnt mean they get delisted, that is a ridiculous statement.

Keep crossing the days off the calander until the first game and leave the list management to the AFC

LMAO

You are more than welcome to play a 189 cm midfielder at CHB and see how you go.

 

[maccas_no1]

How many games is Rhett Biglands going to ruck this year Marty? NONE

Come 2008 regardless of how the season pans out, it will be time to look towards the forward and the future ruckman at the AFC are Ivan Maric and John Meesen. 2008 we will have to move forward with a new generation of players.

Had Rhett Biglands not injured his knee in the preliminary final it would be a different story, but he did.

Utterly ridiculous, Meeson and Maric have proved nothing, zip, nada yet you are convinced they have, seems drummond has been following the progress of Meeson closely and seems to have doubts over his ability, you havent even factored in Hudson, so what the bloke is going to come back to the form he had before he injuried his knee???Where is the fact that it will happen???? What if he struggles?????

 

[maccas_no1]

LMAO

You are more than welcome to play a 189 cm midfielder at CHB and see how you go.

Well you tell me what your other great options are??? He has played there in the past has he not??????

You think Premiership glory will happen in 2007, as you can see already the structure is already up ******** creek, dont go kidding yourself.

 

[Alex99]

So on your theory why dont the AFC delist Doughty and Shirley while they are at it Surely they are holding up the progress of the younger players also??? Massie isnt stopping the progress of any of the younger players, he can play at CHB which is a role he will need to fill this year due to Bock being forced to play forward, just because a player doesnt play finals doesnt mean they get delisted, that is a ridiculous statement.

Keep crossing the days off the calander until the first game and leave the list management to the AFC

I do not know Marty, you tell me.

You’re the one who has said we will not win a premiership in 2007 or 2008 with this current group of players. So why are they still given an opportunity if we can not win the premiership?

Isn’t it every clubs major objective to try and win a premiership?

So I guess going by your statements you are more than happy not being a contender for a premiership?

 

[maccas_no1]

I do not know Marty, you tell me.

You’re the one who has said we will not win a premiership in 2007 or 2008 with this current group of players. So why are they still given an opportunity if we can not win the premiership?

Isn’t it every clubs major objective to try and win a premiership?

So I guess going by your statements you are more than happy not being a contender for a premiership?

No Im a realist, as I was last year but you wouldnt have a bar of what I was saying to you.

It has been said numerous times a clubs opportunity to win the Premiership comes around every eight years, the AFC had their chance and blew it we had the chance in 2002 in 2005 and 2006 blew all opportunities sky high, that isnt your fault that isnt my fault. West Coast are the club to beat and Western Bulldogs are well and truely on the rise.......................AFC on the way down, that is the fact but just slashing players left right and centre is not the answer. Massie is a long way off retirement age, and as player isnt even close to delisting.

Riccuito, Mcleod, Edwards and Goodwin will all take their turn and will hang up the boots, Van berlo has had one good season and showed us some of his magic, Knights and the others have alot to prove in 2007.