Play Nice BigNation - The newly founded land needs you!

Taylor

Community Leader
Jul 16, 2009
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CURRENT LAW (post my initial setup):

1. The currency will be called TABcoin (iluvparis) - 2/0 - PASSED
2. Women aren't allowed to be overweight (FireKraquora) - 2/1 - PASSED
3. All citizens must be self supporting (Lebbo73) - 2/2 - STALEMATE
4. All citizens must be self supporting Mk2 (Andrew Birch) - 3/3 - STALEMATE
5. Free Speech be absolute and can never be silenced,deleted,moderated or infringed upon in any way (WA ROO) 5/? - PASSED
6. Banning of religion - (iBeng) - 2/4 - PASSED
7. Judging Panel Act of 4/12/2019 - (The Speaker) - reached 5 votes



On Tuesday the 3rd of December we will be embarking on a new adventure and we need you on board.

This new nation needs to build a code by which all it's citizens are held to, a set of rules they all have agreed to or were agreed to by those who were there before them.

The rules of this game are simple:

To vote you need to be a citizen, to be a citizen you have to post in the game thread.
Every new citizen has to bring a new law with them, your first duty is the proposal for a new law.
--- Be careful of your wording because once it's law, it's law and you'll need someone else to propose a change and have it passed to change that.
Only those who were citizens when you joined the community can vote on your proposal.
You can propose anything you like.
Your laws cannot be omnibus collections of multiple issues, you propose a determination on a single issue at a time - unless that law is changed.
Voting will be in the form of likes or dislikes (or donkey votes of other), if you don't have access to those functions you can reply in writing.
Debate of the proposed laws are encouraged.

As the founding member of the community my proposal for a law is to code the above as the first law.
All citizens at the time of proposal: Taylor (Who votes for and it passes)

Where this goes is going to be entirely up to the community, there can be a winner in this if the law permits.
 
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Andrew Birch

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Who was part of the community when the rule was proposed? Those are the people eligible to vote by the current rules.
Then it should have gone through when we were at 3/2 but you allowed another person to lock it up at 3/3

Now it's important to note that if the next person on board proposes the same law and everyone votes the same way it will be 3/2 and pass. There's no cooling off period on proposals.
 

Andrew Birch

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That's how it worked, he joined and proposed the no religion law between the time of me posting about one person joining and making it 3/2 and you proposing the law again, then he voted against it and it went 3/3.
armpit 's vote should stand IMO. We were at a stalemate and he is a citizen. Surely ALL citizens of BN are equal?
 

Taylor

Community Leader
Jul 16, 2009
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WTF he's eligible to vote. Unless you're going to send out notifications for citizens to vote only in small designated windows, this ruling is a sham.
It's quite clear that as people have posted when the game started they joined the community and were given a vote.

Until they post once the game started, they have expressed interest but not joined. It's clearly written.
 

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Andrew Birch

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It's quite clear that as people have posted when the game started they joined the community and were given a vote.

Until they post once the game started, they have expressed interest but not joined. It's clearly written.
armpit's 2nd post where he voted for self supporting MK2 should be counted as his 'joined' post, but alas this is getting us nowhere.

Andrew Birch you can propose it again today, I believe. You proposed it on the 4th, it's now the 11th
Taylor be advised that I wish to re-propose - All citizens must be self supporting. (Mk3)


Can you fine BN citizen's please reaffirm your support for this proposal?
armpit
FireKraquora
Lebbo73

I would also like to encourage all Non far-left extremist citizens to get behind this proposal, to ensure that we don't end up a desired destination favoured by unscrupulous people smugglers who's sole aim is to profit from trafficking unskilled, unproductive, welfare mooching illegal immigrants to our fledgling nation state. Please reconsider your positions on this proposal TheSpeaker WA ROO

If it would help to get this vital law passed, I would consider a provision that allows for current citizens to "sponsor" 1 new would-be migrant that is unable to meet the Self Supporting criteria. Once the sponsored migrant can prove financial self reliance, they automatically gain citizenship (unless they have been convicted of a crime that is deemed serious, in which case they would be deported) The BN citizen would of course be responsible for that person as a dependent for as long as that person is unable to financially support themselves. The BN citizen would also need to prove that they are able to financially support the non-citizen and also understand that they could potentially be criminally and financially liable for any crimes that their sponsored non-citizen might commit.
 
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FireKrakouer

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armpit's 2nd post where he voted for self supporting MK2 should be counted as his 'joined' post, but alas this is getting us nowhere.



Taylor be advised that I wish to re-propose - All citizens must be self supporting. (Mk3)


Can you fine BN citizen's please reaffirm your support for this proposal?
armpit
FireKraquora
Lebbo73

I would also like to encourage all Non far-left extremist citizens to get behind this proposal, to ensure that we don't end up a desired destination favoured by unscrupulous people smugglers who's sole aim is to profit from trafficking unskilled, unproductive, welfare mooching illegal immigrants to our fledgling nation state. Please reconsider your positions on this proposal TheSpeaker WA ROO

If it would help to get this vital law passed, I would consider a provision that allows for current citizens to "sponsor" 1 new would be migrant that is unable to financially support themselves. Once the sponsored migrant can prove financial self reliance, they automatically gain citizenship (unless they have been convicted of a crime that is deemed serious, in which case they would be deported) The BN citizen would of course be responsible for that person as a dependent for as long as that person is unable to financially support themselves. The BN citizen would also need to prove that they are able to financially support the non-citizen and also understand that they could potentially be criminally and financially liable for any crimes that their sponsored non-citizen might commit.
I'm a bit more on the bleeding-heart side, hence avoiding the 2nd proposal of this law. Even though I believe in hard work and contribution to community, I have been on the end of some severe health conditions and other misfortunes, and do believe in a safety net for people in similar situations.

At the risk of taking this whole thing way too seriously, I'm afraid I'll need some provision in the "everyone must self-support" bill that does look after those in genuine need. I have no idea how it could be appropriately worded.
 

Andrew Birch

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I'm a bit more on the bleeding-heart side, hence avoiding the 2nd proposal of this law. Even though I believe in hard work and contribution to community, I have been on the end of some severe health conditions and other misfortunes, and do believe in a safety net for people in similar situations.

At the risk of taking this whole thing way too seriously, I'm afraid I'll need some provision in the "everyone must self-support" bill that does look after those in genuine need. I have no idea how it could be appropriately worded.
The law as I understand it only pertains to accepting new citizens, as in they must be able to prove that they are able to financially support themselves on arrival. This could mean they have a job lined up with a signed employment contract which their employer has confirmed or they have enough cash to self fund themselves for a minimum of 5 years. I'm not sure why Taylor changed Lebbo73 's original wording below?

I propose that Big Nation should only accept someone as a citizen if they’re self supporting. For Big Nation to be the most successful nation on Earth, we need to be welfare free.
My interpretation of that proposal is that the 'self supporting' criteria only applies to accepting new citizen applicants. I assume that there would be financial provisions made for existing working BN citizens who may have fallen on hard times by way of mandatory employment insurance that the state also contributes to.

The purpose of this law is to ensure that new applicants are able to contribute to BN on their arrival and not be a potentially long term financial drain on the BN economy, otherwise we risk becoming a failed state since we only have a small workforce at present that is unable to financially support an influx of unskilled new citizens that are welfare dependant.
 
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FireKrakouer

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The law as I understand it only pertains to accepting new citizens, as in they must be able to prove that they are able to financially support themselves on arrival. This could mean they have a job lined up with a signed employment contract which their employer has confirmed or they have enough cash to self fund themselves for a minimum of 5 years. I'm not sure why Taylor changed Lebbo73 's original wording below?



My interpretation of that proposal is that the 'self supporting' criteria only applies to accepting new citizen applicants. I assume that there would be financial provisions made for existing working BN citizens who may have fallen on hard times by way of mandatory employment insurance that the state also contributes to.

The purpose of this law is to ensure that new applicants are able to contribute to BN on their arrival and not be a potentially long term financial drain on the BN economy, otherwise we risk becoming a failed state since we only have a small workforce at present that is unable to financially support an influx of unskilled new citizens that are welfare dependant.
Yup thanks for clarifying. Applying it to new citizens is fine by me. BigNation citizenship is a privilege, not a right!

The only remaining issue is the wording and how it impacts hypothetical family units migrating. Ie the wording states "SELF supporting" yet if a couple with an infant child migrate, even if the father has a job lined up that is sufficient to support the whole family, the infant and stay at home mum are not technically "self supporting" in a financial sense.

If the bill allows citizenship to people who are either self supporting, OR those who are supported by spouse or parents, then I vote yes.
 

Andrew Birch

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Yup thanks for clarifying. Applying it to new citizens is fine by me. BigNation citizenship is a privilege, not a right!

The only remaining issue is the wording and how it impacts hypothetical family units migrating. Ie the wording states "SELF supporting" yet if a couple with an infant child migrate, even if the father has a job lined up that is sufficient to support the whole family, the infant and stay at home mum are not technically "self supporting" in a financial sense.

If the bill allows citizenship to people who are either self supporting, OR those who are supported by spouse or parents, then I vote yes.
Taylor be advised of an amendment to the wording of 'All citizens must be self supporting' (Mk3) to "All NEW citizens must be self supporting or are supported by spouse or parents (Mk3A)

Also please note FireKraquora as a Yes vote.
 
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Andrew Birch

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This has two implications:

a) No asylum seeker intake
b) No permanent residents/temporary work permits
See my "sponsor" suggestion below for a)

"I would consider a provision that allows for current citizens to "sponsor" 1 new would-be migrant that is unable to meet the Self Supporting criteria. Once the sponsored migrant can prove financial self reliance, they automatically gain citizenship (unless they have been convicted of a crime that is deemed serious, in which case they would be deported) The BN citizen would of course be responsible for that person as a dependent for as long as that person is unable to financially support themselves. The BN citizen would also need to prove that they are able to financially support the non-citizen and also understand that they could potentially be criminally and financially liable for any crimes that their sponsored non-citizen might commit."


How did you come to the conclusion of b)? Unless you're saying that all new arrivals/workers must take out BN citizenship?

My suggestion for b) from previous post.

"The law as I understand it only pertains to accepting new citizens, as in they must be able to prove that they are able to financially support themselves on arrival. This could mean they have a job lined up with a signed employment contract which their employer has confirmed or they have enough cash to self fund themselves for a minimum of 5 years."
 
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Mar 5, 2011
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My suggestion for b) from previous post.

"The law as I understand it only pertains to accepting new citizens, as in they must be able to prove that they are able to financially support themselves on arrival. This could mean they have a job lined up with a signed employment contract which their employer has confirmed or they have enough cash to self fund themselves for a minimum of 5 years."
"Once the sponsored migrant can prove financial self reliance, they automatically gain citizenship (unless they have been convicted of a crime that is deemed serious, in which case they would be deported)"
 

Andrew Birch

Mid Price Maestro
Dec 3, 2017
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"Once the sponsored migrant can prove financial self reliance, they automatically gain citizenship (unless they have been convicted of a crime that is deemed serious, in which case they would be deported)"
I should have added "if they want it". I don't think anyone should be compelled to become a BN citizen, however citizenship should have it's perks, like the right to vote in Australia or the right to vote on new laws in BN.
 

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