Rumour Bill Davoren to be replaced by Dean Benton.

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Vicky Park said:
Why is that Scodog? You dont agree? A serious question, not challenging you. I cant see how one person, in a large club with numerous staff and responsibilities, can be blamed for a long term issue such as Freeman's.
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Well to begin with on Freeman. If the sports science team weren't asleep at the wheel his past two years may have gone differently.

On the second as the head of sports science the buck stops with him. It's his job to be in control of that area and know everything about what is happening with every individual on the list much like Bucks where's the brunt of the blame if we perform poorly on-field even if it is due to factors that may be out of his control.

From there in his time at the club we've seen all of Freeman, Sinclair, Oxley, Ramsay, Reid and Young spend protracted amounts of time on the sidelines due to injuries that at most clubs have standard turnarounds, but at ours saw them miss greater than half a season. We then have two players being sent back onto the field when they were already injured in Broomhead and Scharenberg. Lastly if the club is potentially giving him the arse after two seasons surely that's evidence enough that they haven't been happy with his work. We don't even produce individually tailored running programs over the players break...

We may well keep him onboard, but it's been far from a good 24 months from the sports science department, IMO.
 
Although he's a very educated man, his background is very much in a sprint and explosive exercise. I would wonder how well he could implement a plan for 44 guys that have a running profile of 15ks over 120 minutes of game time. His insight in the role of strength training and agility leaves for interesting reading if anyone can find some articles and that sort of stuff interests you.
 
My rugby loving mate tells me Benton is a gun. Big part of taking an average Brumbies team a couple of years ago, getting them really for and strong, and then making the final.

Apparently got the Wallabies extremely fit.
 
Scodog10 said:
Well to begin with on Freeman. If the sports science team weren't asleep at the wheel his past two years may have gone differently.

On the second as the head of sports science the buck stops with him. It's his job to be in control of that area and know everything about what is happening with every individual on the list much like Bucks where's the brunt of the blame if we perform poorly on-field even if it is due to factors that may be out of his control.

From there in his time at the club we've seen all of Freeman, Sinclair, Oxley, Ramsay, Reid and Young spend protracted amounts of time on the sidelines due to injuries that at most clubs have standard turnarounds, but at ours saw them miss greater than half a season. We then have two players being sent back onto the field when they were already injured in Broomhead and Scharenberg. Lastly if the club is potentially giving him the arse after two seasons surely that's evidence enough that they haven't been happy with his work. We don't even produce individually tailored running programs over the players break...

We may well keep him onboard, but it's been far from a good 24 months from the sports science department, IMO.
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That's a comprehensive response, thank you. But I'm not finished yet.:)

Do you think we have been fitter this season, ran out games better? I think so, but it's an observation only. Not based on a proper analysis.
 
I think we can do better who I don't know. I do know there is a big difference between rugby and our game
in fitness levals being totally different games
 
left at home said:
I think we can do better who I don't know. I do know there is a big difference between rugby and our game
in fitness levals being totally different games
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Dean has an extensive sporting background playing Australian Rules football and as a sprinter in professional athletics. As a result of this Dean has a reputation for preparing athletes holistically for the running demands of all football codes.
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Vicky Park said:
That's a comprehensive response, thank you. But I'm not finished yet.:)

Do you think we have been fitter this season, ran out games better? I think so, but it's an observation only. Not based on a proper analysis.
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Darren Burgess was on SEN this evening pre-match discussing the effects of the sub rule being abolished, how Port worked over the pre-season and how he'll work them going into next year. During the discussion Burgess was asked specifically how long a team can hold a fitness edge before things even out and he said that any gains or losses over the pre-season are negated by rounds 5-6.

Rewinding to the start of the year I think we were very fortunate to play 4 of the bottom 5 sides in that period because in our last hitout of the pre-season and in round 2 we were left wanting by teams with a clear fitness edge, IMO. Under Davoren we also have a record of 5-16 in the second half of seasons which for mine is when younger bodies start to tire. Looking over the Doggies squad they play a similarly taxing brand of football yet have rotated their squad significantly and have seemed fresh for most of the year.

In the end my gut feel is that Davoren doesn't have the intuition that a good head of fitness does to be able to spot when a guy or guys needs to be eased back and relies to heavily on when the player tells him they aren't right (which opens the door to players abusing the system...) It largely comes down to an intrinsic knowledge of the game. That last bit is some supposition though!
 
Scodog10 said:
Darren Burgess was on SEN this evening pre-match discussing the effects of the sub rule being abolished, how Port worked over the pre-season and how he'll work them going into next year. During the discussion Burgess was asked specifically how long a team can hold a fitness edge before things even out and he said that any gains or losses over the pre-season are negated by rounds 5-6.

Rewinding to the start of the year I think we were very fortunate to play 4 of the bottom 5 sides in that period because in our last hitout of the pre-season and in round 2 we were left wanting by teams with a clear fitness edge, IMO. Under Davoren we also have a record of 5-16 in the second half of seasons which for mine is when younger bodies start to tire. Looking over the Doggies squad they play a similarly taxing brand of football yet have rotated their squad significantly and have seemed fresh for most of the year.

In the end my gut feel is that Davoren doesn't have the intuition that a good head of fitness does to be able to spot when a guy or guys needs to be eased back and relies to heavily on when the player tells him they aren't right (which opens the door to players abusing the system...) It largely comes down to an intrinsic knowledge of the game. That last bit is some supposition though!
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That has been my thinking for much of the last year. Davoren has an impeccable record in long distance endurance training. To be honest, his knowledge in that area would pass Benton's in this area. We have improved over the last year, but data taking, reading and reporting is a very tedious job that is often overlooked, but is very important. Davoren's TEAM as Im assuming Davoren wouldn't look over raw data should be able to recognize when a load reduction is needed.

It's one of the first things and most basic thing you learn in Sports Science and programming.

It's hard to tell looking from the outside in when talking protocols but.
 
Ketchup said:
That has been my thinking for much of the last year. Davoren has an impeccable record in long distance endurance training. To be honest, his knowledge in that area would pass Benton's in this area. We have improved over the last year, but data taking, reading and reporting is a very tedious job that is often overlooked, but is very important. Davoren's TEAM as Im assuming Davoren wouldn't look over raw data should be able to recognize when a load reduction is needed.

It's one of the first things and most basic thing you learn in Sports Science and programming.

It's hard to tell looking from the outside in when talking protocols but.
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Yeah the last bit of the crux of it. From what I've heard a lot doesn't add up to what an external judge would realistically expect from a professional standpoint, but because I'm external I find it difficult to go too hard.

It is definitely one that if we do go in another direction after only two years it might indicate something wasn't right.

FWIW from a functional perspective Union appears to be a strong background for the way the game is evolving. With the number of "rolling mauls" :rolleyes: we see these days it does lend to that sort of functional fitness.
 
ksardog said:
And the continual problems since with both hammys?
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You do know that the players are human not robots
Davoren et al assist, manage, give expertise etc but they arent robot repairnen
 
By the way, lots of experts on Endurance and fitness trainers
 
Collingwood FC can make a call on Davoren because they have a whole range of information and knowledge that we are not privy to. For us outside the club we can have a bit of an educated opinion about the head coach and the players because they are on public display and we have an idea about their role.

After that it's total guesswork. We have no idea what the assistants, the fitness staff, the medicos etc are like because we have no access to the information required to judge them even if we had the knowledge base to do so. Sorry this thread is just whistling Dixie
 
Gone Critical said:
Collingwood FC can make a call on Davoren because they have a whole range of information and knowledge that we are not privy to. For us outside the club we can have a bit of an educated opinion about the head coach and the players because they are on public display and we have an idea about their role.

After that it's total guesswork. We have no idea what the assistants, the fitness staff, the medicos etc are like because we have no access to the information required to judge them even if we had the knowledge base to do so. Sorry this thread is just whistling Dixie
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Not quite. The next opportunity you get to have a chat with a younger Collingwood player ask them what the club is doing in comparison to other clubs the footy grapevine is amazing.

I'll give you the tip we aren't being benchmarked against like we once were...
 
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