Bill Shorten - how long?

[tandino]

Ones that don't get 10 weeks a year holiday

Mate some of the teachers we were given out in the country you pretty much did have to teach yourself, not that easy when people like myself aren't overly gifted in the brains department

My Grade 6 teacher at a country primary school thought that as the year was 1999, we lived in the 19th Century.

It was mind numbing stuff.

 

[Rob R]

As a delegate of one of the larger unions - I'd say we're going to see more workers become more 'militant'. Hearing simultaneously that the economy is improving and also that 'the age of 3% pay rises is over' while the cost of living keeps going up - more and more workers are realising that they are worth more than they are being paid. It's too easy for employers to simply offer something s**t like 1.5% and then just say take it or piss off. Or worse yet do that and also try to remove conditions and threaten to go to the award if the workers don't accept it. Or only offer a crappy pay rise and only if the workers will give up some conditions. I mean yay who doesn't want to give up conditions for a 'pay rise' that is actually a pay cut?

Meanwhile you have respected economists telling us that the biggest problem with the economy in this country is stagnant wage growth (in fact real wages went down in Q1 this year) and people start to realise they aren't getting a fair deal. And this is to say nothing of rampant wage theft by employers who simply lie to their staff about what they are entitled to.

You have dickheads like Turnbull telling people working in vital jobs liked aged care that they have to 'get a better job' if they want to aspire to any kind of financial security or a comfortable retirement (which won't come until you are at least 70 in many cases). Things are already warming up and closer to really heating up than a lot of people realise.

I only have experience with a few unions but unless they change their ways, they will keep losing members. The CPSU is basically an ALP puppet rather than supporting its members or only cares about Canberra staff. It only seems to go public if is a Lib decision, ALP does same thing and there is silence.

 

[TimmeT]

I only have experience with a few unions but unless they change their ways, they will keep losing members. The CPSU is basically an ALP puppet rather than supporting its members or only cares about Canberra staff. It only seems to go public if is a Lib decision, ALP does same thing and there is silence.

I've got a mtae who works for one as well. When we discuss the virtues and benefits of unionism it is hilarious how he backtracks and becomes very uneasy when the shortcomings of them are exposed (which are many). Furthermore he completely doesn't understand why within the current situation there is a high refusal to join.

 

[medusala]

It is inevitable. The union movement will never relinquish their control of the ALP, and the more irrelevant the former becomes the more divorced the party will become from its real constituency. It's a decrepit and dying party.

Been that way for ages (Howard got circa 40% of the union vote pre workchoices IIRC) Long decided to throw the white working class under the bus and instead rely on ethnic vote plus public servants, green prefs and gerrymandering via extreme immigration.

 

[medusala]

Worker militancy and union membership will likely increase in the future. We are seeing grass root worker activism and a resurgent left in the US and UK, similar will happen here.

Lol. UK public sector unions were able to do stuff all about wage freezes and job cuts. About the only ones with any real clout are the tube drivers and to a lesser extent train drivers.

Of course if the Hamas lover gets in I'm sure things will worsen dramatically.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Of course if the Hamas lover gets in I'm sure things will worsen dramatically.

Funny, I don't recall Shorten rebuking Israel over it's IDF slaughter of unarmed Palestinian protestors.

Is Netanyahu speak now infecting the cluttered mindset of the British tabloid mags also?

 

[Frank Bunn]

As a delegate of one of the larger unions - I'd say we're going to see more workers become more 'militant'. Hearing simultaneously that the economy is improving and also that 'the age of 3% pay rises is over' while the cost of living keeps going up - more and more workers are realising that they are worth more than they are being paid. It's too easy for employers to simply offer something s**t like 1.5% and then just say take it or piss off. Or worse yet do that and also try to remove conditions and threaten to go to the award if the workers don't accept it. Or only offer a crappy pay rise and only if the workers will give up some conditions. I mean yay who doesn't want to give up conditions for a 'pay rise' that is actually a pay cut?

Meanwhile you have respected economists telling us that the biggest problem with the economy in this country is stagnant wage growth (in fact real wages went down in Q1 this year) and people start to realise they aren't getting a fair deal. And this is to say nothing of rampant wage theft by employers who simply lie to their staff about what they are entitled to.

You have dickheads like Turnbull telling people working in vital jobs liked aged care that they have to 'get a better job' if they want to aspire to any kind of financial security or a comfortable retirement (which won't come until you are at least 70 in many cases). Things are already warming up and closer to really heating up than a lot of people realise.

Wages are being stifled by high immigration numbers and the government being complicit in masses of overseas workers being brought onshore on 457 visas. Don't expect anything to change under a Labor government. Bill Shorten and co. have been cosying up to the big end of town this week. The Age puts its usual leftist spin on it but these guys will be expecting something in return for their $11,000 a head.

Labor has collected more than $1 million from company executives and lobbyists in a business blitz over the past two days, adding to its election war-chest at the same time it takes aim at the “big end of town” with its tax policy.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten used the Labor business conference in Sydney to assure corporate Australia that he could work with “friends” in business even as he acknowledged their differences on policy.

The remarks came at a lunchtime address during a two-day event that was attended by at least 100 delegates at a cost of $11,000 each, a big fundraiser for the party as well as a networking opportunity for business.

Those who paid to attend were able to schedule one-on-one sessions with Labor frontbenchers as well as going to policy briefings on areas of interest, such as infrastructure and health.​

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...yists-at-business-summit-20180808-p4zwc8.html

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Wages are being stifled by high immigration numbers and the government being complicit in masses of overseas workers being brought onshore on 457 visas. Don't expect anything to change under a Labor government. Bill Shorten and co. have been cosying up to the big end of town this week. The Age puts its usual leftist spin on it but these guys will be expecting something in return for their $11,000 a head.

Labor has collected more than $1 million from company executives and lobbyists in a business blitz over the past two days, adding to its election war-chest at the same time it takes aim at the “big end of town” with its tax policy.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten used the Labor business conference in Sydney to assure corporate Australia that he could work with “friends” in business even as he acknowledged their differences on policy.

The remarks came at a lunchtime address during a two-day event that was attended by at least 100 delegates at a cost of $11,000 each, a big fundraiser for the party as well as a networking opportunity for business.

Those who paid to attend were able to schedule one-on-one sessions with Labor frontbenchers as well as going to policy briefings on areas of interest, such as infrastructure and health.​

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...yists-at-business-summit-20180808-p4zwc8.html

All political parties ask for donations. Some political parties want donation reform, and they are mostly on 'the left', but while those on 'the right' won't pass such laws it's not hard to see why all political parties attempts to get funding wherever they can.

As for your 'blame immigrants' claim. Many countries have had immigration for a long time, including Australia, including in periods when wages have increased, so there's no factual basis there. Additionally Australia has an immigration program focused on 'skilled' immigration, and a relatively OK minimum wage for unskilled immigrants, so there's no reason to think their jobs keep wages lower. In fact, the scandals of recent years have involved companies like 7/11 pretending overseas students worked half as many hours as they did, which only works as a scam because overseas students are restricted to 20 hours work per week.

A far more obvious influence on lower wages is 'the gig economy'. Maybe you can blame immigrants for that too?

 

[Frank Bunn]

All political parties ask for donations. Some political parties want donation reform, and they are mostly on 'the left', but while those on 'the right' won't pass such laws it's not hard to see why all political parties attempts to get funding wherever they can.

The Greens called on the ALP to name the top end of town figures who paid $11,000 per head to attempt to gain influence but we got crickets from Bill.

As for your 'blame immigrants' claim. Many countries have had immigration for a long time, including Australia, including in periods when wages have increased, so there's no factual basis there. Additionally Australia has an immigration program focused on 'skilled' immigration, and a relatively OK minimum wage for unskilled immigrants, so there's no reason to think their jobs keep wages lower. In fact, the scandals of recent years have involved companies like 7/11 pretending overseas students worked half as many hours as they did, which only works as a scam because overseas students are restricted to 20 hours work per week.

Companies are exploiting the temporary visa system to cut costs. All the major employers have been making Australian workers redundant, sending the work overseas, then bringing those foreign workers onshore on temporary visas.

In her recent speech to the press club ACTU secretary Sally McManus called for an end to Australia's uncapped temporary working visa system.

According to a 2016 Senate Report, there were 1.4 million temporary visa holders in Australia with full or partial work rights. That represents
about one in 10 workers. That’s right, one in 10 workers in the Australian labour force are on temporary visas.

Twenty years ago only a handful of workers had those visas. Even excluding NZ citizens, there were about three quarters of a million
temporary visa holders in Australia with work rights.​

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-calls-for-cut-in-temporary-work-visa-numbers[/QUOTE]

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

The Greens called on the ALP to name the top end of town figures who paid $11,000 per head to attempt to gain influence but we got crickets from Bill.



Companies are exploiting the temporary visa system to cut costs. All the major employers have been making Australian workers redundant, sending the work overseas, then bringing those foreign workers onshore on temporary visas.

In her recent speech to the press club ACTU secretary Sally McManus called for an end to Australia's uncapped temporary working visa system.

According to a 2016 Senate Report, there were 1.4 million temporary visa holders in Australia with full or partial work rights. That represents
about one in 10 workers. That’s right, one in 10 workers in the Australian labour force are on temporary visas.

Twenty years ago only a handful of workers had those visas. Even excluding NZ citizens, there were about three quarters of a million
temporary visa holders in Australia with work rights.​

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-calls-for-cut-in-temporary-work-visa-numbers

How can a company both send "the work overseas" and bring "those foreign workers onshore on temporary visas"? The use of 457s was being abused and Labor wanted it looked into, but the Business community got outraged and were backed up by the Liberals and media. But that has nothing to do with sending work overseas, where it generally stays. The only thing I can think of is companies bringing back call centres to Australia, but that's not high-paying work anyway.

The main benefit of overseas workers is not that you can pay them less (you literally can't, I'm pretty sure that's legislated), it's that you have them locked in by the Visa. It's hard for them to go anywhere else and because their place in Australia is only valid while they're sponsored by a business, they are also more ripe for being exploited. If they don't do as asked, they might have to leave the country. Plus they feel gratitude to the business for sponsoring them.

 

[DaRick]

The main benefit of overseas workers is not that you can pay them less (you literally can't, I'm pretty sure that's legislated), it's that you have them locked in by the Visa. It's hard for them to go anywhere else and because their place in Australia is only valid while they're sponsored by a business, they are also more ripe for being exploited. If they don't do as asked, they might have to leave the country. Plus they feel gratitude to the business for sponsoring them.

Correct, but there's nothing to stop an unethical employer from paying a foreign worker a certain amount 'on paper' but in practice deducting their pay behind their back for any number of reasons. Even if the foreign worker recognises that this is in fact illegal (and they may not if they come from a country with weak or non-existent labour laws), as you rightly point out the foreign worker is often not equipped to do much about it.

 

[Frank Bunn]

How can a company both send "the work overseas" and bring "those foreign workers onshore on temporary visas"? The use of 457s was being abused and Labor wanted it looked into, but the Business community got outraged and were backed up by the Liberals and media. But that has nothing to do with sending work overseas, where it generally stays. The only thing I can think of is companies bringing back call centres to Australia, but that's not high-paying work anyway.

The main benefit of overseas workers is not that you can pay them less (you literally can't, I'm pretty sure that's legislated), it's that you have them locked in by the Visa. It's hard for them to go anywhere else and because their place in Australia is only valid while they're sponsored by a business, they are also more ripe for being exploited. If they don't do as asked, they might have to leave the country. Plus they feel gratitude to the business for sponsoring them.

It seems that you have no experience in the real world.

Whole areas of work can be outsourced to an overseas company, typically in India, to perform the same function for less money. The more recent trend is to bring the workers carrying out that work by the overseas company into Australia on 457 visas under the pretext of 'scarce skills'. Both the Liberal and Labor party are complicit in allowing this rort to continue because they both rely on the corporations that benefit from it to fund their election campaigns.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

It seems that you have no experience in the real world.

Whole areas of work can be outsourced to an overseas company, typically in India, to perform the same function for less money. The more recent trend is to bring the workers carrying out that work by the overseas company into Australia on 457 visas under the pretext of 'scarce skills'. Both the Liberal and Labor party are complicit in allowing this rort to continue because they both rely on the corporations that benefit from it to fund their election campaigns.

It appears you have no experience in the real world

The 457 Visa program was cancelled in March this year

 

[RW]

This article came out just after the July by-elections, but this is why I think Shorten will be the next PM:

"Unlike America, Australians do not vest ultimate constitutional authority in a single person, but rather in their local representatives who are themselves representatives of political parties that chose an individual to lead them as a team into battle.

While it is true that the optics of our political elections are becoming more presidential, the distinction is important: the leaders are members of a political team, not an individual mobilising and running in and of themself.

Shorten has been the most successful politician of his generation, fast-tracking an inevitable path through the law, the union movement and politics to be the first member of Gen X to lead a political party. His rise and rise has been underpinned by his canny ability to establish complex alliances of support across political factions and the usual divides. Shorten is the consummate dealmaker and, as with any politician, his ambitions have been part of the transaction."

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...onal-labor-values-his-popularity-is-secondary

 

[Frank Bunn]

It appears you have no experience in the real world

The 457 Visa program was cancelled in March this year

It was window dressing. Check out the list of occupations eligible for the Temporary Skill Shortage visa (subclass 482).

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav...illed-occupations-lists/combined-stsol-mltssl

 

[Maggie5]

It appears you have no experience in the real world

The 457 Visa program was cancelled in March this year

Don't know why you bother BJ.

The Labor party introduced new rules to take affect in November 2013 in reference to 457 visa, the LNP reversed those rules and it became a free for all.

Further the Libs held and enquiry investigating complaints about the program which just ended up in a whitewash by Cash. There is a thread on this somewhere in Aus Politics.

The parties are NOT the same in regard to skill shortages.

 

[GreyCrow]

I guess the answer is going to be 5 years

 

[AM]

 

[Badesumofu]

Bill Shorten - how long?

About 8 or 9 months at the absolute most, I reckon.

Until he becomes PM, that is.

 

[AM]

Class from Shorten.

 

[citizen-erased]

Probably didn't get the result he wanted today.
Dutton was clearly their wish, based on Albo's impressive tirade this morning.

ScoMo/Fry are electable.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Class from Shorten.

Yeah class by Shorten. Three days after launching an all-out assault on Turnbull, taking advantage of the his leadership crisis. Moved to suspend standing orders to move a motion of no-confidence in Turnbull as Prime Minister. Previously he has said 'From day one of his prime ministership we have seen the same pattern. Mr Turnbull has never seen a fight that he won’t give up his principles in order to keep his job. This Prime Minister stands for nothing at all.'.

Shorten is a ******* hypocrite.

 

[NSWCROW]

AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA





What a sad campaigner


Wonder what his username here is ?? LOL

 

[Procrastinator35]

Sure, we were all terrified for the country had Dutton gotten up, Newman you flog.....He'd use the beat-up on the Sudanese kids to declare Marshall Law FFS.

As far as desperation is concerned, it's pretty clear that the Libs selection of Sco-Mo, is one last desperate attempt to remain to be seen as re-electable & stable.... Cause all the other 3 candidates, especially Dutton, would soon be exposed for the intellectual light-weights & paper-tigers that they actually are.

 

[NSWCROW]

Probably didn't get the result he wanted today.
Dutton was clearly their wish, based on Albo's impressive tirade this morning.

ScoMo/Fry are electable.

Agree with this , however it could be a blessing in disguise , keeps him on his toes.
Look at the last US election , Dems thought they'd stroll in and got ahead of themselves.