Politics Black Lives Matter

Remove this Banner Ad

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
20,617
21,599
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
And who’s fault might that be?
Fault of what? As I've said (and by your comment, you agreed), the protests had no impact here in Australia.

Fault, if you want to blame fault, is on those protest on the back of an American issue. Loses any impact.

That will never help their cause....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

Chief

Chugging Adrenochrome
Dec 1, 1999
92,646
69,481
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Fault of what? As I've said (and by your comment, you agreed), the protests had no impact here in Australia.

Fault, if you want to blame fault, is on those protest on the back of an American issue. Loses any impact.

That will never help their cause....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
No, by my comment I went along with your line of thought to find out why you held that belief.

So you believe that nothing has happened (however you measure that) and you believe that this is because local activists are organising rallies at times when US events have heightened public awareness of racial issues.

Correct?
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
20,617
21,599
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
No, by my comment I went along with your line of thought to find out why you held that belief.

So you believe that nothing has happened (however you measure that) and you believe that this is because local activists are organising rallies at times when US events have heightened public awareness of racial issues.

Correct?
What has changed? Whose lives are better off from those protests in Australia? You might count them on one hand, if any.

These rallies just coincided with an issue in America? Geez, bad timing.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Chief

Chugging Adrenochrome
Dec 1, 1999
92,646
69,481
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
What has changed? Whose lives are better off from those protests in Australia? You might count them on one hand, if any.

These rallies just coincided with an issue in America? Geez, bad timing.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
Part of that answer is “what happens at a rally”.

Speeches, networking, public awareness... what else? Dunno I dont go to them those are the things I’ve heard activists talk about.

Any real activists on the forum?
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
20,617
21,599
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Part of that answer is “what happens at a rally”.

Speeches, networking, public awareness... what else? Dunno I dont go to them those are the things I’ve heard activists talk about.

Any real activists on the forum?
I guess we'll wait until the next BLM movement in Australia happens when someone does something wrong in America and all the BF BLM experts join in

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
I use "the left" because if I sat here and described every position on the left and right, I don't think I'd ever finish.
So just describe the people doing what you're discussing, instead of characterising them as "the left". Rioting and looting isn't inherently "left-wing". It's opportunistic criminality.

Rubbish like this certainly isn't imposed from the right.


Lincoln for god sake. And you object when I say that country is going insane.
I thought we were talking about people attacking courthouses and police stations?

If you're now changing to talking about an op-ed in USA Today, much as you might find it disagreeable, I'm not sure it's on par with a violent mob storming the Capitol. Seems like a false equivalence, no?

Again, I'd ask, who on "the left" that you deem crazy has any real power? On the right, however, Marjorie Taylor Greene gets elected to Congress and Trump lies about an election result before sending his supporters to march on the Capitol to delay certification of the result. What is the equivalent on "the left" involving people who actually have power?

Jonathan Zimmerman writing a column for USA Today can't be held up as equivalent to the conduct of a sitting president lying about an election result or a deranged conspiracy theorist being elected to Congress.
 
Last edited:

sdfc

Club Legend
Feb 15, 2019
1,188
925
AFL Club
Fremantle
So just describe the people doing what you're discussing, instead of characterising them as "the left". Rioting and looting isn't inherently "left-wing". It's opportunistic criminality.

I thought we were talking about people attacking courthouses and police stations?

If you're now changing to talking about an op-ed in USA Today, much as you might find it disagreeable, I'm not sure it's on par with a violent mob storming the Capitol. Seems like a false equivalence, no?

Again, I'd ask, who on "the left" that you deem crazy has any real power? On the right, however, Marjorie Taylor Greene gets elected to Congress and Trump lies about an election result before sending his supporters to march on the Capitol to delay certification of the result. What is the equivalent on "the left" involving people who actually have power?

Jonathan Zimmerman writing a column for USA Today can't be held up as equivalent to the conduct of a sitting president lying about an election result or a deranged conspiracy theorist being elected to Congress.
It goes beyond a bit of looting. There's been the burning of businesses and black neighbourhoods. The rhetoric coming out of some BLM supporters would suggest at least some in that movement were involved in arson, attacking government buildings and attacking police.

I'm not changing to anything. The US insanity goes beyond the violence.

Why do you see this as a defence of Trump? Are only MAGAs permitted to think the US has gone insane?

When did you make up that rule?
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
It goes beyond a bit of looting. There's been the burning of businesses and black neighbourhoods. The rhetoric coming out of some BLM supporters would suggest at least some in that movement were involved in arson, attacking government buildings and attacking police.
And this is "the left"? Folks with no power embarking on an opportunistic crime spree.

I'm not changing to anything. The US insanity goes beyond the violence.
You pivoted from BLM protests and associated rioting to an op-ed in USA Today about historical figures. That's not changing the focus?

Why do you see this as a defence of Trump? Are only MAGAs permitted to think the US has gone insane?

When did you make up that rule?
It's not a defence of Trump so much as a lazy false eqiivalence.

The nutters on the right have real power. The nutters on the left do not.

So when you say "America has gone crazy", it's worth remembering which side of politics elects their nutters to Congress and the WH. That happens on the right, while the crazies on the left have relatively little power. The left just elected Biden, an establishment centre-left politician who represents status quo more than anything remotely radical or "crazy".
 

sdfc

Club Legend
Feb 15, 2019
1,188
925
AFL Club
Fremantle
And this is "the left"? Folks with no power embarking on an opportunistic crime spree.

You pivoted from BLM protests and associated rioting to an op-ed in USA Today about historical figures. That's not changing the focus?

It's not a defence of Trump so much as a lazy false eqiivalence.

The nutters on the right have real power. The nutters on the left do not.

So when you say "America has gone crazy", it's worth remembering which side of politics elects their nutters to Congress and the WH. That happens on the right, while the crazies on the left have relatively little power. The left just elected Biden, an establishment centre-left politician who represents status quo more than anything remotely radical or "crazy".
I didn't pivot to anything. Sorry, I didn't realise you aren't capable of talking about two topics at once.

I don't keep tallies on which side is worse, the argument that I may have done x, but they've done y and x isn't as bad is just a two wrongs make a right argument, but our wrong wasn't as bad as there's.
'
You're basically making excuses for political violence because you support it.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
I didn't pivot to anything. Sorry, I didn't realise you aren't capable of talking about two topics at once.
If they're two separate topics and you're moving from one to the other, then isn't that a pivot?

I don't keep tallies on which side is worse, the argument that I may have done x, but they've done y and x isn't as bad is just a two wrongs make a right argument, but our wrong wasn't as bad as there's.
Yeah, that's why I described it as a lazy false equivalence between crazies on the left with no power and crazies on the right who hold elected office.

The right elects its nutters. The left doesn't.

You see no distinction?

You're basically making excuses for political violence because you support it.
Not at all. Violence and looting should be condemned and the perpetrators prosecuted regardless of who does it.

I just think it's dumb to present race riots as an equivalent of "the left" going off the rails to the same extent as the right. On one hand, people with no power went on an opportunistic crime spree. But is that even "the left"? I don't recall Joe Biden endorsing it. It's not an official policy of the Democratic Party.

On the other hand, on the right, the rioters were gathered and given their marching orders by a sitting president, after weeks of misinformation about a "stolen election" from the RW echo chamber and dozens of elected GOP representatives.

Again, you apparently see no distinction. Hence the lazy false equivalence.
 
Last edited:

sdfc

Club Legend
Feb 15, 2019
1,188
925
AFL Club
Fremantle
If they're two separate topics and you're moving from one to the other, then isn't that a pivot?

Yeah, that's why I described it as a lazy false equivalence between crazies on the left with no power and crazies on the right who hold elected office.

You see no distinction?

Not at all. Violence and looting should be condemned and the perpetrators prosecuted regardless of who does it.

I just think it's dumb to present race riots as an equivalent of "the left" going off the rails to the same extent as the right. On one hand, people with no power went on an opportunistic crime spree. But is that even "the left"? I don't recall Joe Biden endorsing it. It's not an official policy of the Democratic Party.
On the other hand, on the right, the rioters were gathered and given their marching orders by a sitting president, after weeks of misinformation about a "stolen election" from the RW echo chamber.

Again, you apparently see no distinction. Hence the lazy false equivalence.
[/QUOTE]

The crazy's on the left are changing the names of high schools yet you say they have no power

Sure no violence anywhere was committed anywhere by anyone remotely associated with a left wing group.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Ghost Patrol

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 17, 2019
5,509
10,015
AFL Club
Richmond
The crazy's on the left are changing the names of high schools yet you say they have no power

Sure no violence anywhere was committed anywhere by anyone remotely associated with a left wing group.
Who gives a sh*t what they call a high school?

If that's your definition of crazy, then you have bigger problems to deal with.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
The crazy's on the left are changing the names of high schools yet you say they have no power
Compared to a sitting president and members of Congress?

Is it really a big deal if a school gets renamed? Yeah wow, such awesome power. They're taking over!

This is equivalent to a RW mob storming the Capitol, egged on by a sitting president and GOP representatives? Surely not.

Sure no violence anywhere was committed anywhere by anyone remotely associated with a left wing group.
Did you have an argument on this point?

The point is that the RW empowers and elects its nutters in a way the LW does not.

Try to reckon with that for a minute before replying with another obvious strawman.
 

sdfc

Club Legend
Feb 15, 2019
1,188
925
AFL Club
Fremantle
Compared to a sitting president and members of Congress?

Is it really a big deal if a school gets renamed? Yeah wow, such awesome power. They're taking over!

Did you have an argument on this point?

The point is that the RW empowers and elects its nutters in a way the LW does not.

Try to reckon with that for a minute before replying with another obvious strawman.
What strawman. You made a comment that the radical left have no power. It was clearly silly.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
What strawman. You made a comment that the radical left have no power. It was clearly silly.
I said the the folks engaging in race riots have no power.

And even the folks you mention who want high schools renamed, who cares? Is that a big deal? Did anyone die during that?

It's not comparable in craziness to a mob storming the Capitol, nor comparable in power to a president who lies about an election result or the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene being elected to office.

My point is that the RW empowers and elects its nutters in a way the LW does not.

Do you know what the term "false equivalence" means?
 

sdfc

Club Legend
Feb 15, 2019
1,188
925
AFL Club
Fremantle
I said the the folks engaging in race riots have no power.

And even the folks you mention who want high schools renamed, who cares? Is that a big deal? Did anyone die during that?

It's not comparable in craziness to a mob storming the Capitol, nor comparable in power to a president who lies about an election result or the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene being elected to office.

My point is that the RW empowers and elects its nutters in a way the LW does not.

Do you know what the term "false equivalence" means?
And the capitol hill rioters have power?
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
And the capitol hill rioters have power?
The sitting president who lied about the election result and egged them on certainly did. Same goes for the GOP representatives who echoed his lies. The storming of the Capitol was the result of these actions committed by RWers in power.

Hey SJ, when this goose is backing your cause it's time to rethink it.
Is that how you form your opinions? Doesn't seem like a very sophisticated approach.
 

sdfc

Club Legend
Feb 15, 2019
1,188
925
AFL Club
Fremantle
The sitting president who lied about the election result and egged them on certainly did. Same goes for the GOP representatives who echoed his lies. The storming of the Capitol was the result of these actions committed by RWers in power.

Is that how you form your opinions? Doesn't seem like a very sophisticated approach.
Yeah that's right, no power whatsoever.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
21,101
17,684
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
Yeah that's right, no power whatsoever.
Huh?

Again, the RW empowers and elects its nutters in a way the LW does not. That's my point.

The evidence of this is the way Trump and other GOP enablers laid the table for the storming of the Capitol by lying about the election for two months and then gathering supporters to DC and sending them towards Congress to disrupt the certification of the result. The events of January 6 simply would not have occurred without the encouragement of elected officials on the right.

What did Obama or Biden or other Democrats do that equates to this? The Democrats are still run by folks who are basically sane, pragmatic centre-left. In the GOP, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum.

As an equivalent, you point to race riots and opportunistic criminality that have no proximity to real power. And OMG some folks changed the name of a school! Like that makes it even?

When you bundle all this together and say "both sides are crazy", like it's 50/50 and both sides have equal nutters equally empowered, that's false equivalence.

Further evidence, who is the LW equivalent of Marjorie Taylor Greene? When did Democrats elect a YouTube conspiracy theorist to Congress?
 
Last edited:

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad