Politics Black Lives Matter

Remove this Banner Ad

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Dogs_R_Us

Space Traveller
May 3, 2001
14,668
15,301
Sirius - the Dogstar
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I don't know enough about their position to say. You tell me?

Are they actually a "nation" in the way we define a nation in 2021?

Aren't they just Australians with a particuar tribal ancestry?
There’s a push to ban the terms “indigenous” and “Aboriginal” in favour of “First Nation”. Don’t you know tribes lived in cities, were farmers, and there was no domestic violence in their society until the First Fleet arrived.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Dec 20, 2014
23,145
19,274
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
There’s a push to ban the terms “indigenous” and “Aboriginal” in favour of “First Nation”. Don’t you know tribes lived in cities, were farmers, and there was no domestic violence in their society until the First Fleet arrived.
I'm not interested in denigrating indigenous folks.

They're welcome to call themselves whatever they like. But they're still Australians until/unless they secede.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Dec 20, 2014
23,145
19,274
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
Far from.neing homophoebic but u see China today being far closer to say nazi Germany for its time than say, the flase equivalence to an indigenous community somewhere north of Sydney.

He doubled down on rad roo s position to stand up for wokeness what a dill.
I assume he was seeking to make some kind of parallel argument about "good ethnonationationalism" rather than directly likening indigenous folks to the CCP.
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
23,554
44,683
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I don't know enough about their position to say. You tell me?

Are they actually a "nation" in the way we define a nation in 2021?

Aren't they just Australians with a particuar tribal ancestry?
The Bundjalung people I know are Bundjalung first and Australian second. Which is fair enough.

Someone definitely needs an "ethnic" component or the approval of people with an ethnic component to be consoidered a member. But with very little political, economic or physical power its not really something that has an effect on other people.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Dec 20, 2014
23,145
19,274
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
The Bundjalung people I know are Bundjalung first and Australian second. Which is fair enough.
That may be how they identify, which is well and good, but in what sense does it constitute "nationality"? In what sense is there a Bundjalung nation? They are Australian citizens with a particular tribal ancestry. And I'm not diminishing that ancestry by making the distinction.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
23,554
44,683
AFL Club
North Melbourne
There’s a push to ban the terms “indigenous” and “Aboriginal” in favour of “First Nation”. Don’t you know tribes lived in cities, were farmers, and there was no domestic violence in their society until the First Fleet arrived.
If attitudes like yours are typical of your club (and they certainly seem like it) its no wonder the only indigenous player you lot have had in decades is JUH. If youse don't change your ways he'll be out the door at the first opportunity.
 
Last edited:

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
23,554
44,683
AFL Club
North Melbourne
That may be how they identify, which is well and good, but in what sense does it constitute "nationality"? In what sense is there a Bundjalung nation? They are Australian citizens with a particular tribal ancestry. And I'm not diminishing that ancestry by making the distinction.
A bunch of related mobs from the lower Clarence river area formed a national federation in the 1800s in response to the massacre at Evans Head.
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
23,554
44,683
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Back on topic can you justify ethno-nationalism from the ccp perspective, and how does that tie in to the Bundjalung people.
The CCP are obviously using ethnonationalism to keep the focus away from the failings of the authoritarian state they run and on external enemies. Its a fairly standard political tactic.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Dec 20, 2014
23,145
19,274
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
A bunch of related mobs from the lower Clarence river area formed a national federation in the 1800s in response to the massacre at Evans Head.
That's how they identify. It doesn't mean it's actually a separate nation according to the terms we use to define nation status.

Simply declaring yourselves a nation state doesn't make it so.

Are the Maori a nation? Or are they New Zealanders of Maori ancestry?

That's probably a more complicated example.

Even then, what point does it make about ethnonationalism? Can I as a white fella show up in Bundjalung and become a "citizen"?

I'm not sure this kind of exclusion based on race is desirable or defensible for a nation state. Australia had a White Australia policy. Does anyone but weird basement racists want a return to that kind of ethnonationalism?

If you ask me, that is one of the greatest things about Australia - we more or less reject ethnonationalism. A kid born to Italian or Vietnamese or Sudanese parents can be every bit Australian, just as much as some convict stock whose family has been in Australia for 200 years.
 
Last edited:

ExcitementMachine

Club Legend
Aug 5, 2019
1,381
1,013
AFL Club
Collingwood
The CCP are obviously using ethnonationalism to keep the focus away from the failings of the authoritarian state they run and on external enemies. Its a fairly standard political tactic.
So you can't blame Morrison for framing the narrative against Muslims than right.... I mean come on...
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
23,554
44,683
AFL Club
North Melbourne
That's how they identify. It doesn't mean it's actually a separate nation according to the terms we use to define nation status.

Simply declaring yourselves a nation state doesn't make it so.

Are the Maori a nation? Or are they New Zealanders of Maori ancestry?
That depends on whether you ask them or someone else.

But to the bolded bit... we tend to define nations as states and only acknowledge them when they take that form. A few hours ago a discussion about the ethno nationalism not being a real issue without the power of the state behind it seemed like an interesting topic for a discussion. But that was hours ago.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Dec 20, 2014
23,145
19,274
Hong Kong
AFL Club
West Coast
That depends on whether you ask them or someone else.
I'm not "asking" anyone because that's not a sensible metric for anything. I'm applying a broad criteria for what constitutes a nation state.

You seem to have sympathy for indigenous folks declaring themselves a separate nation along racial/ethnic/tribal lines.

Would you have similar sympathy for a bunch of white Australian bogans in Cronulla doing the same?

We had a White Australia policy. Do you support that kind of ethnonationalism?
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad