Politics Black Lives Matter

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ExcitementMachine

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Ok...

It might not mean what you think it means for RR. I get the sense that alot of Han people would describe themselves as ethnonationalist without necessarily meaning to invoke all the baggage the term has in the west.
You are getting confused.

Gravity exists. So does Chinese ethnonationalism. Acknowledging they both exit is not the same as sympathising with them.
 

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ferball

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I don't recall saying Chinese ethnonationalism didn't exist.

Are you saying you don't sympathise with it?
Not particularly, and especially not in the form the CCP promotes. But not all Chinese people toe that line. (I'm not Chinese either.) I have some sympathy with Chinese people who feel their historical achievements and cultural complexity don't get enough respect from the West. I'm not looking forward to those people beginning to identify with the CCP's narrative tho.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Not particularly, and especially not in the form the CCP promotes. But not all Chinese people toe that line. (I'm not Chinese either.)
You seemed pretty eager to defend Chinese ethnonationalism for someone who doesn't sympathise with it.

I have some sympathy with Chinese people who feel their historical achievements and cultural complexity don't get enough respect from the West.
That's not the same as Chinese ethnonationalism.
 

ferball

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What does that mean?
It means they have an ongoing culture and language centered around a place.

How would I qualify for Bundjalung citizenship?
Citizenship applies to states not nations but you'd basically have to be invited or told you are by one or more elders.

What a load of rubbish. This renders the term meaningless.
No it doesn't. You're confusing the word "state" with the word "nation". The rest of the world gets the difference.
 

ferball

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Thousands of years.
Technically no. The Bundjalung nation is a federation formed before Australian federation in response to the European encroachment into their lands and the massacre at Evans Head in NSW. The massacre wiped out a bunch of people who called themselves "BUndjalung" and the nation took that name in honour of their dead ... relatives i guess. (For lack of a better term.) Probably over 100 years tho.
 
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ExcitementMachine

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Technically no. The Bundjalung nation is a federation formed before Australian federation in response to the European encroachment into their lands and the massacre at Evans Head in NSW. The massacre wiped out a bunch of people who called themselves "BUndjalung" and the nation took that name in honour of their dead ... relatives i guess. (For lack of a better term.) Probably over 100 years tho.
Dweeb,
You keep.changing the goal.posts of the discussion the last few pages and for some reason cling to the Bundjalung as your example to back your position that initially defended rad roo the han chinese ethnonationalist. Just admit that you were wrong on your position having since being exposed to contradicting your initial position and move on on han chinese ethnonationalism.

It really has nothing to do the Bundjalung people don't try and squirm you way out of it and stop trying to be a woke ****** in discussion all the time.
 

ferball

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Dweeb,
You keep.changing the goal.posts of the discussion the last few pages and for some reason cling to the Bundjalung as your example to back your position that initially defended rad roo the han chinese ethnonationalist. Just admit that you were wrong on your position having since being exposed to contradicting your initial position and move on on han chinese ethnonationalism.

It really has nothing to do the Bundjalung people don't try and squirm you way out of it and stop trying to be a woke ****** in discussion all the time.
Serious question. Are you on meth?
 

Verdun

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Dweeb,
You keep.changing the goal.posts of the discussion the last few pages and for some reason cling to the Bundjalung as your example to back your position that initially defended rad roo the han chinese ethnonationalist. Just admit that you were wrong on your position having since being exposed to contradicting your initial position and move on on han chinese ethnonationalism.

It really has nothing to do the Bundjalung people don't try and squirm you way out of it and stop trying to be a woke ****** in discussion all the time.

Having another point of view is not changing the goal posts.

Stop being so politically correct dismissing anyone with a different point of view with labels.
 

Sweet Jesus

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The original point of my comment has been lost in the noise.

Sweet Jesus - is ethnonationalism by definition racist in your view?
I answered that question already.

Fundamentally, I question why it's a good idea to construct "nations" exclusively around ethnicity, race or ancestry. I'm not sure that's something we should validate.

If it's OK for an indigenous tribe, is it also OK for the Aryan Nations?

I thought dividing people up and segregating them based on race, ethnicity or ancestry was no longer desirable?

Should we do that in Australia? Should all the Anglo-Saxon folks declare themselves a separate nation and all the Greeks, Italians, Lebanese, Serbs and Sudanese can do the same? They can then all form their own political parties and start their own schools and media outlets. Sounds great?

I thought we'd moved past racial essentialism. Isn't that what the far-right proposes?

In Australia, you can come from anywhere and join the club. We don't discriminate based on race or ethnicity when it comes to whether you are regarded as Australian. That doesn't mean you have to renounce your heritage or your mother tongue or a different culture. But you become Australian. It's fundamentally inclusive rather than exclusive, unlike somewhere like Japan which remains 98 per cent "ethnically pure". And that's why Australia is one of the world's most successful multicultural experiments. Balkanising the population into hundreds of smaller ethnic "nations" would fly in the face of that.

Look at these nutters, for example. They want to promote "Anglo-Saxon traditions" which sounds to me like a dog whistle for something much darker, perhaps a kind of white separatism. We should be suspicious of this nonsense. Where does it leave African Americans or Chinese Americans or Muslim Americans? This is where ethnonationalism leads, in my view.

 
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ferball

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I answered that question already.

Fundamentally, I question why it's a good idea to construct "nations" exclusively around ethnicity, race or ancestry. I'm not sure that's something we should validate.
You said "it depends how you define racism."

I get the rest of what you are saying but its not really your call.

China for example has a particular association with ethnic group but also has some very specific cultural aspects that are as much a part of their identity as anything else. They have a long history under the influence of particular schools of thought.

If it's OK for an indigenous tribe, is it also OK for the Aryan Nations?
Are you fu**en serious? The only thing uniting the Ayran Nations is jail time.

I thought dividing people up and segregating them based on race, ethnicity or ancestry was no longer desirable?
History and migration did that.

Should we do that in Australia? Should all the Anglo-Saxon folks declare themselves a separate nation and all the Greeks, Italians, Lebanese, Serbs and Sudanese can do the same? They can then all form their own political parties and start their own schools and media outlets. Sounds great?

I thought we'd moved past racial essentialism. Isn't that what the far-right proposes?

In Australia, you can come from anywhere and join the club. We don't discriminate based on race or ethnicity when it comes to whether you are regarded as Australian. That doesn't mean you have to renounce your heritage or your mother tongue or a different culture. But you become Australian. It's fundamentally inclusive rather than exclusive, unlike somewhere like Japan which remains 98 per cent "ethnically pure". And that's why Australia is one of the world's most successful multicultural experiments. Balkanising the population into hundreds of smaller ethnic "nations" would fly in the face of that.

Look at these nutters, for example. They want to promote "Anglo-Saxon traditions" which sounds to me like a dog whistle for something much darker, perhaps a kind of white separatism. We should be suspicious of this nonsense. Where does it leave African Americans or Chinese Americans or Muslim Americans? This is where ethnonationalism leads, in my view.

Maybe you have a rose coloured view of Australia .... but its definitely moving in that direction, toward a truly cosmopolitan nation.

You can come from quite a few places on a plane (but not on a boat.)

And surely you can see the difference between a place like Australia and one like China or Japan. Ethnicity plays a huge role in those nations because historically they shared a culture for generations. They speak separate languages that carry a whole truck load of cultural baggage. or connection.

We don't even speak the king's or queens English any more.

There is no "white" ethnicity. It doesn't exist. And people who claim it does are denying the many different cultures in Europe and around the world as a result of European movement. Its as fictional as the "Anglo Saxon political" garbage those w***ers you linked to are banging on about. The Anglo Saxons lost power in England 1000 years ago. Common Law is basically a French invention. Its not really comparable to actual national identities that are built around a long term culture as well as long (mostly) term common ancestry. Like the french, or the English or the Irish, The Spanish etc etc.
 

sorted

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There is no "white" ethnicity. It doesn't exist. And people who claim it does are denying the many different cultures in Europe and around the world as a result of European movement.
There's no "people of colour" ethnicity either. But there's a lot of people adopting it as a major part of their identity.
 

ExcitementMachine

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You said "it depends how you define racism."

I get the rest of what you are saying but its not really your call.

China for example has a particular association with ethnic group but also has some very specific cultural aspects that are as much a part of their identity as anything else. They have a long history under the influence of particular schools of thought.



Are you fu**en serious? The only thing uniting the Ayran Nations is jail time.



History and migration did that.



Maybe you have a rose coloured view of Australia .... but its definitely moving in that direction, toward a truly cosmopolitan nation.

You can come from quite a few places on a plane (but not on a boat.)

And surely you can see the difference between a place like Australia and one like China or Japan. Ethnicity plays a huge role in those nations because historically they shared a culture for generations. They speak separate languages that carry a whole truck load of cultural baggage. or connection.

We don't even speak the king's or queens English any more.

There is no "white" ethnicity. It doesn't exist. And people who claim it does are denying the many different cultures in Europe and around the world as a result of European movement. Its as fictional as the "Anglo Saxon political" garbage those w***ers you linked to are banging on about. The Anglo Saxons lost power in England 1000 years ago. Common Law is basically a French invention. Its not really comparable to actual national identities that are built around a long term culture as well as long (mostly) term common ancestry. Like the french, or the English or the Irish, The Spanish etc etc.
Typing on my phone but this was an intellectually dishonest rant, cherry picking, with a fair amount of mental gymnastics to come to your whacky, fruit loop conclusion.
 

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