Unofficial Preview Bloods v CarlCrims

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Caj

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You have to take risks. Safe picks and we get 100 Jordan Foote’s. Won’t ever blame the club for taking a punt on a player.

The only thing I’ll say is- if we are trade back and get him in an appropriate position
Ed Richards was still sitting on the board with the same skillset and a lot less risk than Ling
 

LukeParkerno1

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Ed Richards was still sitting on the board with the same skillset and a lot less risk than Ling
Was the one I wanted or Higgins. I don’t have a problem with the Ling pick but surely we could have traded down, got an extra second round in the process...
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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Make him do it for multiple weeks not just 1-2. Has been rubbish all year at AFL level. Maybe we should be realistic- we are rebuilding let’s play players that are here next year and beyond though.
You said he could barely reach a jog. I said in the NEAFL game he reached far more than a jog. His pace was right up there with the kids.

Now you've switched your entire argument and decided he has to do it for an extended period. Well that's crap too. Consistency is something you are looking for before selecting junior players, not senior players with his credentials. I think he's close to the end, but I think he should be selected for Ronke.
 

GotTheGoodes

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Agreed. Coming 7th or 8th would almost be useless when we aren’t ready let’s be honest.
I understand where you are coming from mate but I really hate this kind of mentality.

Success comes from a focus on success. You don't grow a strong winning culture by losing.

We haven't been as lucky & successful as we have based on first round draft picks have we? Where did we take Goodes? ROK? Hanners? Parker? ... We did alright with a couple of premierships and even more Grand Finals appearances out of what you'd call "low" draft picks.

Sure, a lucky high draft pick can set a club up but more often than not, those successful clubs are built on a winning culture and well thought-out structure & game plan that suits what they have at their disposal... more-so than any individual talent they bring on board. Look at our opponent this week, Carlton have had how much talent fed into their club the past decade? How has that worked out for them?

The idea we should "play around" with the side and not focus on winning just riles me up. We should always be focused on winning the next game. Putting all our effort into winning the next game. Never ever giving up. That is what our club is built on and why I support them. I'd be disgusted if we ever looked to be not focused on winning the next game in front of us but rather "experimenting" or whatever else you want to call it.

Leave that to those loser clubs like Carlton or Melbourne. The clubs that put aside the focus of winning the next game to gain some advantage in a draft system... IMO a seriously stupid mindset for a professional sporting organisation to have. You win from winning.

And that goes for this match. I hope we come out on fire and tear the Blues and their sad excuse for a club apart.

Up the mighty Bloods!
 

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TheMase

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Ed Richards was still sitting on the board with the same skillset and a lot less risk than Ling
Well I am sure I read that Darymple who was at the dogs at the time said Ling was on their list for selection and went Richards when we took him.

So perhaps he wasn’t that much of a reach and the amateur phantom drafts got it wrong?
 

MCG of the EFL

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I understand where you are coming from mate but I really hate this kind of mentality.

Success comes from a focus on success. You don't grow a strong winning culture by losing.

We haven't been as lucky & successful as we have based on first round draft picks have we? Where did we take Goodes? ROK? Hanners? Parker? ... We did alright with a couple of premierships and even more Grand Finals appearances out of what you'd call "low" draft picks.

Sure, a lucky high draft pick can set a club up but more often than not, those successful clubs are built on a winning culture and well thought-out structure & game plan that suits what they have at their disposal... more-so than any individual talent they bring on board. Look at our opponent this week, Carlton have had how much talent fed into their club the past decade? How has that worked out for them?

The idea we should "play around" with the side and not focus on winning just riles me up. We should always be focused on winning the next game. Putting all our effort into winning the next game. Never ever giving up. That is what our club is built on and why I support them. I'd be disgusted if we ever looked to be not focused on winning the next game in front of us but rather "experimenting" or whatever else you want to call it.

Leave that to those loser clubs like Carlton or Melbourne. The clubs that put aside the focus of winning the next game to gain some advantage in a draft system... IMO a seriously stupid mindset for a professional sporting organisation to have. You win from winning.

And that goes for this match. I hope we come out on fire and tear the Blues and their sad excuse for a club apart.

Up the mighty Bloods!
Well said,I feel like running out on the ground myself after reading your post.Really looking forward to the Geelong game though at the SCG in the game we hope will be buddy's 300th game and a big chance to knock off 1 of the top sides.
 

caesar88

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Did I seriously just read someone questioning Rose's place in the side? Might have only had 11 touches but half of them were contested and went at 81% efficiency. Kicked a goal and was directly involved in two other scoring involvements. Ronke had the same number of touches at 54% efficiency and didn't score. Florent had 10 touches and only 2 were contested, didn't score and gave away 3 frees. Hayward despite playing a majority of time through the middle only had 4 more touches only 5 were contested and went at 53%. Before we even consider dropping Rose, there are three whose heads should be on the chopping block before his.
Completely disagree. I can cop a poor performance from Florent or Hayward, because they have earned that faith. People are drastically exaggerating both of their form. They may have been poor against the Bombers, but the week before they both had better games than Rose. They’ve had some quiet games here and there, but they are third year players! Not 23 year olds who have been on the list for five years.

Florent and Hayward are regular members of the best 22 who may just be in a bit of a slump. Like it or not, that’s an excuse, because it happens to all young players. But Rose spent all year in the NEAFL building form. He came into the senior team specifically because he was supposed to be in form, yet he’s still turning in average performances. Ditto Ronke. There’s a reason they were in the NEAFL in the first place while the other two were playing senior footy.
 

Caj

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Well I am sure I read that Darymple who was at the dogs at the time said Ling was on their list for selection and went Richards when we took him.

So perhaps he wasn’t that much of a reach and the amateur phantom drafts got it wrong?
Haven't heard that one before Mase, its kind of suprising that Darymple would say that publicly that given it would have been a slight on his newly selected first round draft pick
 

TheMase

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Haven't heard that one before Mase, its kind of suprising that Darymple would say that publicly that given it would have been a slight on his newly selected first round draft pick
He said it in a recent interview whilst at the Swans (so not at the time of selection).
 

SwansProudly

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I understand where you are coming from mate but I really hate this kind of mentality.

Success comes from a focus on success. You don't grow a strong winning culture by losing.

We haven't been as lucky & successful as we have based on first round draft picks have we? Where did we take Goodes? ROK? Hanners? Parker? ... We did alright with a couple of premierships and even more Grand Finals appearances out of what you'd call "low" draft picks.

Sure, a lucky high draft pick can set a club up but more often than not, those successful clubs are built on a winning culture and well thought-out structure & game plan that suits what they have at their disposal... more-so than any individual talent they bring on board. Look at our opponent this week, Carlton have had how much talent fed into their club the past decade? How has that worked out for them?

The idea we should "play around" with the side and not focus on winning just riles me up. We should always be focused on winning the next game. Putting all our effort into winning the next game. Never ever giving up. That is what our club is built on and why I support them. I'd be disgusted if we ever looked to be not focused on winning the next game in front of us but rather "experimenting" or whatever else you want to call it.

Leave that to those loser clubs like Carlton or Melbourne. The clubs that put aside the focus of winning the next game to gain some advantage in a draft system... IMO a seriously stupid mindset for a professional sporting organisation to have. You win from winning.

And that goes for this match. I hope we come out on fire and tear the Blues and their sad excuse for a club apart.

Up the mighty Bloods!
Love this reply re success.

1. Having a high draft pick is unlikely to win you a premiership.
Swamp posts interesting tweets re AFL stats:
Tom Boyd retires #1 Draft Picks to win a V/AFL premiership Drew Banfield Des Headland Luke Hodge TOM BOYD

2. To finish middle 6 as compared to bottom 6 on the ladder has the advantage of playing more games against the better teams in the following season.

Middle six: Clubs ranked 7-12 on the 2015 ladder will have a minimum of one and maximum of two return meetings with clubs ranked 1-6 on the ladder. They will have a minimum of two and maximum of three return meetings with other middle six clubs. They will have a minimum of one and maximum of two return meetings with clubs ranked 13-18.

We want to play the better teams.
That's how we improve - that how we stay as successful club.
#ProudlySydney :sydney:
 
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Mick Oxlong

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Completely disagree. I can cop a poor performance from Florent or Hayward, because they have earned that faith. People are drastically exaggerating both of their form. They may have been poor against the Bombers, but the week before they both had better games than Rose. They’ve had some quiet games here and there, but they are third year players! Not 23 year olds who have been on the list for five years.

Florent and Hayward are regular members of the best 22 who may just be in a bit of a slump. Like it or not, that’s an excuse, because it happens to all young players. But Rose spent all year in the NEAFL building form. He came into the senior team specifically because he was supposed to be in form, yet he’s still turning in average performances. Ditto Ronke. There’s a reason they were in the NEAFL in the first place while the other two were playing senior footy.
Hayward can’t hit the side of a barn and his job was to hit the barn doors...out until he can as that s**t cost us momentum and the game (umpiring aside)!
 

GCB85

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Completely disagree. I can cop a poor performance from Florent or Hayward, because they have earned that faith. People are drastically exaggerating both of their form. They may have been poor against the Bombers, but the week before they both had better games than Rose. They’ve had some quiet games here and there, but they are third year players! Not 23 year olds who have been on the list for five years.

Florent and Hayward are regular members of the best 22 who may just be in a bit of a slump. Like it or not, that’s an excuse, because it happens to all young players. But Rose spent all year in the NEAFL building form. He came into the senior team specifically because he was supposed to be in form, yet he’s still turning in average performances. Ditto Ronke. There’s a reason they were in the NEAFL in the first place while the other two were playing senior footy.
Going to call you on this. Florent and Hayward have learnt faith? The week before you say they had much better games than Rose. Hayward had 10 effective disposals. 3 score involvements, 1 goal 1 and 3 tackles. Florent had 11 effective disposals , 3 score involvements and 1 tackle. Rose had 9 effective disposals, 6 score involvements and a goal assist, kicked 1 point and laid 2 tackles. To say both had better games than Rose is blatantly incorrect. In fact, with the exception of Hayward kicking his 1 goal, I would argue Rose offered more to the side than both again last week.

You seem to forget when Rose initially was brought into the team he performed well including a three goal performance. Despite performing well he was booted from the side. He wasn't afforded the leeway you are saying Hayward and Florent should be afforded. He wasn't given the opportunity to stay in the side even though he was performing at a higher standard than both the others currently are. It is not fair to say there is a reason why he was playing in the NEAFL when he was sent back there when performing well enough to play firsts but wasn't given the opportunity.
 

caesar88

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Going to call you on this. Florent and Hayward have learnt faith? The week before you say they had much better games than Rose. Hayward had 10 effective disposals. 3 score involvements, 1 goal 1 and 3 tackles. Florent had 11 effective disposals , 3 score involvements and 1 tackle. Rose had 9 effective disposals, 6 score involvements and a goal assist, kicked 1 point and laid 2 tackles. To say both had better games than Rose is blatantly incorrect. In fact, with the exception of Hayward kicking his 1 goal, I would argue Rose offered more to the side than both again last week.

You seem to forget when Rose initially was brought into the team he performed well including a three goal performance. Despite performing well he was booted from the side. He wasn't afforded the leeway you are saying Hayward and Florent should be afforded. He wasn't given the opportunity to stay in the side even though he was performing at a higher standard than both the others currently are. It is not fair to say there is a reason why he was playing in the NEAFL when he was sent back there when performing well enough to play firsts but wasn't given the opportunity.
You can produce all the stats you like, I had Rose in our bottom four performers against the Suns (not that he was bad, the whole team was just very good), and Florent and Hayward somewhere in the middle ranks. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Where Florent and Hayward have earned faith is that they have had some very good games, and quite recently in fact. Hayward has the yips in front of goal at the minute, but the yips are the only thing between his current output and him being our leading goalkicker this year. Yes it's the most important part of his game and he's struggling with it at the moment, but he's doing nearly everything else right. He's working his arse off up and down the ground better than most Swans (after that label was unfairly hurled against him earlier this year), he's getting himself into positions to have multiple scoring opportunities every week and just robbing himself of the rewards for it. None of that constitutes being dropped.

And Florent has earned faith because he's had some very good games for us this year. His game against West Coast was the exemplary Florent game that we had all hoped to see. The bye comes along and robs him of any potential momentum, and that was only a month ago, so unless we've all collectively been diagnosed with dementia, he deserves the chance to find that form back. But it wasn't even just that one. I liked his game down in Geelong, where I thought he had his best game pressure-wise for us. Down in Tassie against North he worked hard to cover the ground and was a key component of our midfield on a night when we fielded the youngest Swans side in years and needed the youngsters to stand up - he did. Against the Tigers he had 31 possessions and along with Dawson really set the tone for us early in the match 9 first-quarter possessions. The Melbourne debacle in round 4 he was one of the only reasons we were even in with a chance in that match after he was a clear BOG in the first half when we established a healthy lead.

I've just named five games this year alone where Florent was better than Rose has ever been in any match. That's less a knock on Rose and more praise of Florent. That's earning faith and showing he's worth persevering with. But if they aren't enough, I can also go into last year where he produced a string of games that were better than any Rose has ever played. That would be counter-productive since I don't think 2018 form should count for much in 2019, but then again, you're going back to 2015 and 2016 to mount your argument for Rose, so maybe the rules have changed..
 

The King!

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Love this reply re success.

1. Having a high draft pick is unlikely to win you a premiership.
Swamp posts interesting tweets re AFL stats:
Tom Boyd retires #1 Draft Picks to win a V/AFL premiership Drew Banfield Des Headland Luke Hodge TOM BOYD

2. To finish middle 6 as compared to bottom 6 on the ladder has the advantage of playing more games against the better teams in the following season.

Middle six: Clubs ranked 7-12 on the 2015 ladder will have a minimum of one and maximum of two return meetings with clubs ranked 1-6 on the ladder. They will have a minimum of two and maximum of three return meetings with other middle six clubs. They will have a minimum of one and maximum of two return meetings with clubs ranked 13-18.

We want to play the better teams.
That's how we improve - that how we stay as successful club.
#ProudlySydney :sydney:

we need to get back to poaching/ trading in players
 

The King!

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You can produce all the stats you like, I had Rose in our bottom four performers against the Suns (not that he was bad, the whole team was just very good), and Florent and Hayward somewhere in the middle ranks. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Where Florent and Hayward have earned faith is that they have had some very good games, and quite recently in fact. Hayward has the yips in front of goal at the minute, but the yips are the only thing between his current output and him being our leading goalkicker this year. Yes it's the most important part of his game and he's struggling with it at the moment, but he's doing nearly everything else right. He's working his arse off up and down the ground better than most Swans (after that label was unfairly hurled against him earlier this year), he's getting himself into positions to have multiple scoring opportunities every week and just robbing himself of the rewards for it. None of that constitutes being dropped.

And Florent has earned faith because he's had some very good games for us this year. His game against West Coast was the exemplary Florent game that we had all hoped to see. The bye comes along and robs him of any potential momentum, and that was only a month ago, so unless we've all collectively been diagnosed with dementia, he deserves the chance to find that form back. But it wasn't even just that one. I liked his game down in Geelong, where I thought he had his best game pressure-wise for us. Down in Tassie against North he worked hard to cover the ground and was a key component of our midfield on a night when we fielded the youngest Swans side in years and needed the youngsters to stand up - he did. Against the Tigers he had 31 possessions and along with Dawson really set the tone for us early in the match 9 first-quarter possessions. The Melbourne debacle in round 4 he was one of the only reasons we were even in with a chance in that match after he was a clear BOG in the first half when we established a healthy lead.

I've just named five games this year alone where Florent was better than Rose has ever been in any match. That's less a knock on Rose and more praise of Florent. That's earning faith and showing he's worth persevering with. But if they aren't enough, I can also go into last year where he produced a string of games that were better than any Rose has ever played. That would be counter-productive since I don't think 2018 form should count for much in 2019, but then again, you're going back to 2015 and 2016 to mount your argument for Rose, so maybe the rules have changed..

side should be picked on form

otherwise k jack should be in for all the faith built up over 200 games
 
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