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Bluemour Discussion Thread IV
- Thread starter Mr_Plow
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pressurepoint
Team Captain
- Dec 24, 2012
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Agree. Everyone calm the farm.
Gibbs is worth two first rounders (according to some) yet Kelly can be done for a first.
No. For starters, Treloar cost two firsts and change.
Hopper is worth a first alone. Same with Whitfield. Kelly two firsts at minimum.
Kelly will cost too much. Swapping the Gibbs pick for Hopper and change (Griffin salary dump) would be a fantastic result.
Robertio
Treat me like a Royal
I think Brodie is the expert at picking good players with later picks.
Only thing I disagree with is Kelly deal. Worth a top 10 and a top 20 pick IMO. To get that type of talent you have to pay. Still lots and lots of ways to get more players
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Kelly would cost 2 x 1st rounders between say 6 - 12, unless we finish last, then GWS's negotiation position is weakened
We have got to kill off this trade Weitering talk!
The bloke is a bottom aged player in his draft, late November birthdate, so he is still 19. He has shown he has all the traits to be an ELITE KEY POSITION player at both ends of the park. He has shown he has an amazingly level head on his shoulders. He has shown he has excellent leadership qualities, potential future captain.
This guy is a once in a generation player in the making!
Experts always say that the bigger players take much larger to come on. Well Weitering is 195cm and has already player 37 AFL games before he has even turned 20!!!
Don't get me wrong, I am all for Kelly. But leave Weitering out of it.
Gethelred
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Hopper AND Whitfield would improve us immeasurably, in both the short term and the long. People seem to forget that Hopper, in his draft year, would have been considered a potential no 1 pick were it not for the GWS academy. An in-out midfielder, with the capacity to rest forward. The issue with him is continuity and the situation in which he plays his position - let's face it, there aren't many who could break into that midfield as a draftee - all match but for stints forward.
Whitfield would be more beneficial in the short term than Hopper; the bloke is an outside mid with elite disposal that TACKLES! Literally, WHAT is the bad there? Right now, our biggest issue - beyond him potentially being a bit of a knob - is entering forward fifty, either to a leading target or from a stoppage; he would immediately improve our ability to clear the ball out into space, and to kick to a leading target. If he gets 20-25 possessions a game for us, that can be translated straight to marks inside forward fifty.
If we get Kelly, that hurts our capacity to make trades for these two players; if we no longer have pick 2/3, we cannot trade it for them, and they will not come much cheaper than that. Kelly, on the other hand, would replace Gibbs and perhaps add a bit more, but he's used to being in that midfield, where he's one of a constellation.
In our midfield, he's the one you'd be tagging, even if Gibbs stays. Has he had to deal with a tag yet?
Whitfield would be more beneficial in the short term than Hopper; the bloke is an outside mid with elite disposal that TACKLES! Literally, WHAT is the bad there? Right now, our biggest issue - beyond him potentially being a bit of a knob - is entering forward fifty, either to a leading target or from a stoppage; he would immediately improve our ability to clear the ball out into space, and to kick to a leading target. If he gets 20-25 possessions a game for us, that can be translated straight to marks inside forward fifty.
If we get Kelly, that hurts our capacity to make trades for these two players; if we no longer have pick 2/3, we cannot trade it for them, and they will not come much cheaper than that. Kelly, on the other hand, would replace Gibbs and perhaps add a bit more, but he's used to being in that midfield, where he's one of a constellation.
In our midfield, he's the one you'd be tagging, even if Gibbs stays. Has he had to deal with a tag yet?
I can't believe some of you would contemplate trading Charlie for Kelly, that's ludicrous! it has all the trademarks of the Judd deal! If we can't get Kelly for our first and small change with the PSD threat then we should move on, hit the draft for the next two years and take Shiel as an F/A in 2019.
I reckon Pick 3 & Gibbs pick (adelaide 1st round) plus a salary cap dump (Griffen?) would get it done. Maybe some late picks back?
In the end I will sit back and watch SOS do his magic. I'm sure it will all work out and we will be much better side in 2018
I wouldn't even contemplate trading any of our young talent UNLESS they specifically asked for it and really wanted out. (which I can't see happening)
KohPhi
Brownlow Medallist
- Jul 24, 2015
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It makes for entertaining reading doesn't it!!
The reality is though (and it would be the same on every board);
We will overvalue our players and undervalue oppositions..
Trade picks we don't currently have...
Target players that have no desire to move..
Bring in players that secretly love Carlton because they had a pizza at Toto's in Lygon st when they were 12.
Manufacture trades where we ream every other club because we have SOS and they are run by idiots and imbeciles..
It's a glorious time!!
super likes
It makes for entertaining reading doesn't it!!
The reality is though (and it would be the same on every board);
We will overvalue our players and undervalue oppositions..
Trade picks we don't currently have...
Target players that have no desire to move..
Bring in players that secretly love Carlton because they had a pizza at Toto's in Lygon st when they were 12.
Manufacture trades where we ream every other club because we have SOS and they are run by idiots and imbeciles..
It's a glorious time!!
Wish I give a post multiple "likes"
Its going to be interesting IF Gibbs says at seasons end that he is going to stay. Then with SOS's mind at ease of not having to deal with Adel he can concentrate on other deals, ie possibly getting Kelly, Hopper, Whitfield, Matera. Im not saying he will land the lot (would be a miracle if he did) but id prefer him to go to the draft and get the best kids possible, and if we are going to recruit others, lets get them cause they want to play for the jumper. I want to see the passion from our players again!
- Aug 22, 2014
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a) Gibbs is contracted for another two years, a club like ours is well within its rights to ask an exorbitant price for a contracted senior midfielder.
b) Kelly is out of contract, and if he nominates a specific club who happens to have Pick 2 or 3, that plus change will get the job done.
c) Treloar actually cost two firsts, but came with change. Treloar and 28 for 8 and a future first. That future first was forecast to be in the low teens, but ended up being Pick 8 with a poor year from Collingwood. Could just as easily have been 15. Either way, very different to "two firsts plus change".
d) Agree that Hopper is worth a first, ditto Whitfield. But note the difference between Picks 3 and 16 is significant despite them both being first rounders.
e) Pick 21 as compensation for Casboult is a very real possibility. 3+ years on $500k or more should trigger Band 3, especially for a key forward leaving a bottom 3 club with the worst forward line in the comp.
All that being said, I'm more comfortable with us using Pick 3 for Whitfield and Hopper. Both players are worth somewhere around Pick 12 individually, and 2x Pick 12's equate to Pick 2 on the AFL's scale. If GWS want to try and land Rayner, then Pick 3 is extremely valuable in giving them currency to do further deals with Brisbane to trade up to Pick 1. They can cover the loss of Whitfield and Hopper immediately with players like Setterfield and Perryman coming into the seniors, and Coniglio coming back from injury.
StandByyourMan
Club Legend
- Feb 1, 2017
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This all day long. Multiple all oz in the making. Trading him would turn into a ghost that lived in the corridors of PP for many many years.
I love it when people talk about 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounders as if they're absolute.
I would take pick 2 any day of the week over pick 17 & 18, they're all 1st rounders.
If we managed to get pick 17 and 18 and gave it for Kelly I wouldn't be able to stop giggling.
Treloar, in collingwoods estimation at the time, was worth Pick 7 and a pick between 13 and 16. They just did a Carlton and underestimated the shitness of their list and took a risk.
Personally, I think Pick 2 and Potential Gibbs late first rounder would get Hopper, Kelly and a salary cap dump such as Griffen IF GWS were after Dusty.
Don't underestimate the worth of having ridiculous amounts of cap space, I reckon we have to do this just to make minimum next year.
StandByyourMan
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whichever way you see it - trade week will singularly be like Christmas when you're a kid!!!!
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That would certainly assist negotiations
I would too
would you rather trade curnow then?
SE_Blue
Cancelled
I wouldn't. Why do we have to trade either? If GWS say they want Curnow/Weitering involved in any deal for Kelly then they can keep Kelly thanks very much. A lot easier to get good midfielders in the draft/elsewhere than it is to get young tall talent that's tracking as well as Curnow and Weitering are at their age.
If we don't win again this season it will most likely be Pick 2 or even 1! Would be happy to trade it for both Whitfield and Hopper, better value for us at this stage. I'm secretly hoping that Kelly re-signs!
Casboult would need an offer of 600-625k per season to trigger second round compensation. I think it's possible but not counting on it happening.
I like the idea of sending that pick or our 2018 2nd to GC for Matera. Has 6-7 good years of footy left in him.
Casboult would need an offer of 600-625k per season to trigger second round compensation. I think it's possible but not counting on it happening.
I like the idea of sending that pick or our 2018 2nd to GC for Matera. Has 6-7 good years of footy left in him.
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