Bluemour Discussion Thread VI (cont. in Part VII)

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Kelly is a freak but I would worry about so much tied to one player.

I don't get why you would even consider North. Unless they are paying way overs. I wonder if he likes Tassie :p
I was at the Saints v Tigers game on Sunday. After hearing the crowd cheer Martin every time he came off to the bench, I have no idea why he would want to play in front of a North crowd.

Hopefully Kelly plays in front of 80k+ at the G this month and wants to a Melbourne club (read Carlton )
 

BlueTongue

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Think it may be of concern, Kelly is good, but he is not Buddy like
THIS. Buddy is a once in a generational KPP. Champion/Elite mids are much more common. We have at least 4 in the league now (Ablett, Danger, Dusty, Kelly - albeit Ablett past his prime and Dusty & Kelly are debatable), so IMHO I'd rather offer Kelly a shorter contract (4-5 years) on big money.
 

I bleed Blue

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If the 9 year deal is on 800K per year I would have no problem with that.

800K in 6 years time will be quite the norm. We woudl be actually getting him at bargain price if he plays at this level all those years.

If I was Kelly I wouldnt be looking at anything more than a 5 year deal though.
 

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Would not be against a 9 year deal for Kelly. If it was to average $1mil a year, I would structure it as follows:
Year 1-2 $1.5m a year
Year 3-6 $650k
Year 7-8 $950K
Year 9 $1.5m

Front load part of it to set him up, and back load part of it to reward him sticking through the contract and when he hits his peak. Reckon that would give us some flexibility for when our current crop are looking to sign new contracts.
 

Farktherest

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Front loaded then it will hurt less if something unforseen should happen .... also I am damn sure the Club would put caveats in to secure their own economic future .... I hope .......
Surely they would...what happens if Kelly suffered an injury like Kouta or Thomas and was still able to play, but was never the same again and was only an average footballer? What if this happens in year 1, 2, 3, 4 or even 5 of the contract? We are stuck with an average Kelly on our list for years to come.
 

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I may be wrong but I think Dusty's management are just using NM to squeeze Tigers balls as hard as they can.

He will stay a Tiger but will have milked them for every dollar possible.
Most likely, the recent rumours are that he'll stay from what i've read.

Would also coincide with barrass' rumour that North still in the hunt...they've probably realised Dusty isn't coming and gone back to putting all their eggs in the Kelly basket, which seemingly has caused Kelly to reconsider.
 

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Farktherest

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Wouldn't have thought most players would want a 9-year contract. As much as it provides security, it also severely limits you. Five years is plenty of time. Heaps. Plus it means you get to reassess what's happening in line with new collective bargaining agreements, adjust to changes in the AFL climate and more freedom of movement in the future if required. There's a reason super long contracts like that are the exception and not the norm. I doubt any of our other young gun players will be put off by us getting a player on that sort of contract, nor will they start requesting the same.
Agreed...im actually kind of surprised a player even wants to do 9 years...Kelly is only 22, his life and priorities will be totally different by the time he's 27 etc...eg some sort of partner or family situation compelling him to move to another state (just an example). Plus there is the fact the salary cap may go up and he could actually be short changing himself.
 

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If the 9 year deal is on 800K per year I would have no problem with that.

800K in 6 years time will be quite the norm. We woudl be actually getting him at bargain price if he plays at this level all those years.

If I was Kelly I wouldnt be looking at anything more than a 5 year deal though.
The problem with the 9 years is really only in the event he gets injured and isn't able to produce the same level of football ala Thomas...what do we do then?
I wonder if we'll have some 'agreements' in place that in that unlikely event, Kelly will in some way forgo his contract and agree to structure down to a lesser one...kind of like Thomas giving up his possible 5th year extension...though i'm not sure if that's even legal.

I just think surely the club will insert SOMETHING to protect ourselves in case Kelly gets a serious injury...surely.
 

therubbernub

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i dont really get the 9 year play as a counter attack against North. If they are prepared to offer huge money up front, I cant really see that they would have any objection to matching the 9 years. I am not sure where it gets us other than if kelly wants to be at the blues already
 

Arr0w

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Kelly's contract

There are many ways the club can safeguard their interest in case of poor form or injury, with a long term deal

Example Only

Base - 500K
Match Payments - 10K/Game x 25 (Playing finals) = 250K

Incentives
B&F - 50K
Brownlow - 50K
Flag - 150K

Total = 1 Mil
 

HarryFlashman

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Just a question on my recollection for this learned board.
Wasn't the Kouta contract - where we paid him a fortune & his knee blew out, the reason why 5yr contracts were avoid for quite sometime??
I swear that situation ****** us rather hard & there was a collective response of "let's learn from it"... I could also be recalling incorrectly
 
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I've heard it has. Kennedy, McVeigh and Grundy apparently don't talk to him away from the club. Mitchell and Franklin didn't talk at all - was said to be a reason he was let go so easy. Bulldogs star players treat Boyd pretty shabbily is the word.
Franklin left the Dawks due to excessive white line fever.
 

gab213

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Just a question on my recollection for this learned board.
Wasn't the Kouta contract - where we paid him a fortune & his knee blew out, the reason why 5yr contracts were avoid for quite sometime??
I swear that situation ****** us rather hard & there was a collective response of "let's learn from it"... I could also be recalling incorrectly

Yep, pretty sure you're right there.
 

Farktherest

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Kelly's contract

There are many ways the club can safeguard their interest in case of poor form or injury, with a long term deal

Example Only

Base - 500K
Match Payments - 10K/Game x 25 (Playing finals) = 250K

Incentives
B&F - 50K
Brownlow - 50K
Flag - 150K

Total = 1 Mil
Are you sure about that?

So when you hear on BigFooty and in the media for 'player x has signed for $800k over 5 years' for example...that can include all these types of clauses and they just state the MAXIMUM the player can earn and not necessary what they ACTUALLY earn?

So when you say Juddy was on $1 million...he could have actually only been earning $700k because he and we as a team didn't hit certain incentives? I'm not sure that is true.
 

Blue_Fusion

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Sounds like Judd all over again and we are still to get our hands on number 17. I'm not against trading for him, just the 'at all costs' mindset.
It's not at all costs. It will be at the cost of an early draft pick and something extra, maybe an additional early-ish pick. Either way, we would have to be very lucky to draft an elite player with pick #3 and/or whatever the other pick is.

Even if pick #3 ends up being elite, we break even as Kelly is elite, except we don't have to wait 3-4 years. So the chance of the other pick we give them coming back to haunt us will be low.

Necessary imo if losing Gibbs becomes reality.
 

HarryFlashman

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Are you sure about that?

So when you hear on BigFooty and in the media for 'player x has signed for $800k over 5 years' for example...that can include all these types of clauses and they just state the MAXIMUM the player can earn and not necessary what they ACTUALLY earn?

So when you say Juddy was on $1 million...he could have actually only been earning $700k because he and we as a team didn't hit certain incentives? I'm not sure that is true.
i always thought the number was the base- the incentives are not disclosed or counted as they are not certain payments
 
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