Bluemour Discussion Thread VI (cont. in Part VII)

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Arr0w

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But four years of Gibbs may be better for CFC getting to #17 than pick #16 from Adelaide? Shane Crawford was good for the Hawks.
What many people seem to forget is that we may not see that 4+ years. Unless he signs a contract extension, Gibbs could depart at the end of 2019 as a UFA, on a slightly larger contract only, to chase a flag. If that does happen, we would get less than the projected Casboult compensation pick being bandied around on this board.

Personally, that is not a risk I would like the club to take
 

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katmanblue

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No, Riewoldt clones with better kicking skills don't get so easily shut out of the game:


And Kelly clones who look more physically developed at the same age are cheaper than Kelly:

Are either of those 2 going be available at pick 5-6 next year? Thats the minimum we should be aiming for.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
 

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Stamos

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Who cares about being shit next year (as long as we maintain competitiveness like we did this year)? Its not like were planning on playing finals till 2020 onwards.

We are resetting the list. Green shoots. Journey. Road map.

This year the goal was to get games into the kids, while avoiding flogging with an ultra defensive game plan. Both those goals were met (soundly).

Next year it's about moving gradually towards a more attacking game plan off the back of that defense (and getting games into the kids).

Off season this year the goal is to concentrate talent in the 24 and under bracket. Next year it's 25 and under (including us starting to dip our toes into the FA market).

We have 1 more year (and 2 more trade/ drafts) to go before we've even finished the 'guts' of the list rebuild. Well need another year or two after that to add in free agents and an extra player or two to top it off.
Your concept of a rebuild ignores how important that competitiveness, leadership and wins along the way are to the development of young players, and the pace and completion of the rebuild. There is great morale around the club, and the wins that we did get, along with general competitiveness are huge in developing and getting buy-in from the younger players.

Our competitiveness this year was largely on the back of 6 senior players having great years, and carrying the kids. We struggled once Cripps went out of the side. If we had have traded Gibbs last year, we'd be dead last. We may not have even won a game, and then the whole narrative around the club is completely different.
 

katmanblue

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Interesting comments from one of the call team a few minutes after the incident. Can't remember who it was but they told their colleagues that the "courageous" tag was off the mark, and that Kelly simply had no idea where he was in the play.

I'm actually inclined to agree. He made no attempt to get the ball, just saw the lock going wide, made to run in that direction, and got cleaned up by Kennedy.

Wasn't backing into a pack or running back with the flight. Just got collected because of a momentary lack of awareness.

Note: i'm not questioning his courage or ability in general, just questioning this clip being proof of either.
Kelly said he had no idea Kennedy was there.
 

Arr0w

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Your concept of a rebuild ignores how important that competitiveness, leadership and wins along the way are to the development of young players, and the pace and completion of the rebuild. There is great morale around the club, and the wins that we did get, along with general competitiveness are huge in developing and getting buy-in from the younger players.

Our competitiveness this year was largely on the back of 6 senior players having great years, and carrying the kids. We struggled once Cripps went out of the side. If we had have traded Gibbs last year, we'd be dead last. We may not have even won a game, and then the whole narrative around the club is completely different.
Let's be very clear, what Gibbs did last year was spineless, deceitful and showed no leadership whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to make a bad judgement call and his efforts this year on field have gone a long way to repair that situation.

Leadership has also nothing to do with talent
 

Nostalgia

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Not to mention that Mitchell was surplus to Sydney's requirements; when you have a starting midfield of Hannebury, Kennedy, and Parker, with Papley, Heeney, Mills, Cunningham etc running through it, you don't need an accumulator.

Gibbs, on the other hand, is a pivotal member of our midfield. For us to get rid of him, regardless of his age, would risk us going the way of Melbourne, without adequate compensation.


It's perfectly fine for them to not provide for us what we'd accept for Gibbs; we'll just keep him, and he'll remember it as the club that failed to pay what he's worth.

And I reject your implied notion that Gibbs only has a few years left. He's not slowing down, he's getting better with each year he's played in his late twenties; his skills and thinking are the basis that he plays by, not athleticism or speed. He could foreseeably play for five years, from this point. What it comes down to, ultimately, is that if they refuse to pay us what he's worth, it sends two messages; one, that Adelaide will try to poach your players, but if you hold firm they go away eventually, and two, that we value Gibbs more than they do.
It's simple IMHO. Keep Gibbs and revise his contract upwards. Pay him more! For lots of reasons, including form, he deserves it.
 

BigFrizz36

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Tom Browne (very much take with a grain of salt) reporting on 7 news that Daisy was prepared to retire but club want him to stay on a one year deal. Also reporting that the Essendon bid for Josh Kelly is "the real deal". Probably better off reading these boards looking for truth than listening to him but presented for what its worth.
 
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Your concept of a rebuild ignores how important that competitiveness, leadership and wins along the way are to the development of young players, and the pace and completion of the rebuild.


I'm not advocating gutting the list of experience and going full Melbourne. I said as much above (and in dozens of similar posts on the same topic).

You never go full Melbourne.

The goal is to remain competitive and avoid floggings and to build from defence first (young backline learning under fire and holding up) while also getting games into the kids.

We did both of those things with aplomb this year.

Next few years we will be gradually moving towards a more offensive game plan (you saw snippets of that late this year). Well also be looking to get more games into the kids.

During this period we need to maintain a solid core of experience to enable us to play the kids (without them getting smashed) and to drive standards (experience and corporate knowledge are vital).

I'm not advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater like Melbourne did and destroying the culture.

I'm advocating a methodical and gradual release of players (with trade value that outweighs their value as experienced players) in order to bring in more talent.

You don't want to release them all at once (or even release all of them full stop). But we do need to release some where we can afford to in order to get the important part of the list (24 and under) in as good a shape as it can be.

We wouldn't have many of our rising stars this year if we hadn't have traded Touhy, Henderson, Yarran and Menzel (those trades got us the currency to either directly pick up Marchbank, Cuningham, Curnow, Picket, McKay, Plowman etc or meant we didn't have to sacrifice a low pick of our own for them and miss out on a player like SPS).

Losing Gibbs hurts our midfield and leadership short term but I'm more comfortable with those loses this year than I was last year due to the increased leadership of Cripps and Docherty and the improvement in the kids.

I value an extra mid 1st round pick higher than what I value the experience Gibbs provides for the next few years.

If that pick is the key to unlocking Kelly and/or Hopper then I'm even more on board.
 

HARKER

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Interesting if we're prepared to pay Palmer out for 2018.
It certainly can't be because of a desperate need for list spots. Doesn't sound good.

JGM would then be SOS's first mis-step.
Only a rookie I know and we are relatively covered for KPD's, but just thought we may have given him a little more time, given he was always a project.
 

LanceRomance

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Interesting if we're prepared to pay Palmer out for 2018.
It certainly can't be because of a desperate need for list spots. Doesn't sound good.

JGM would then be SOS's first mis-step.
Only a rookie I know and we are relatively covered for KPD's, but just thought we may have given him a little more time, given he was always a project.
How does it not sound good?
 

Dravid's in

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Interesting if we're prepared to pay Palmer out for 2018.
It certainly can't be because of a desperate need for list spots. Doesn't sound good.

JGM would then be SOS's first mis-step.
Only a rookie I know and we are relatively covered for KPD's, but just thought we may have given him a little more time, given he was always a project.
Pretty sure there was no mention of JGM being delisted today Harks?....
 

Magruder

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Would be a bad look if Kelly finally nominates Carlton, and then we cannot get the deal done due to it costing to much.
And then move onto the cheaper Hopper option.
Might end the 'destination club' talk
If Kelly nominates, the deal has to get done.....for the clubs sake.
It'll go to mediation and get done for #3 and a swap of 2018 1st rounders... or if we're lucky 2nds
 
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