Bluemour Discussion Thread XIX - Please Sir, Can We Have More?

Funk

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Kennedy's hands really impressed me, he was one touch and rarely fumbled. Really hoping we get him fit because I still think he can be a player!
Kennedy is a serious “footballer”.

Clean hands, good mark and super kick for goal.

Just has to get his body up to AFL standard - those ankle injuries have crippled his development.
 

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BigFrizz36

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He hasn’t played a full season in his entire career to date. We have cover in his position, and I wouldn’t even place him in the ‘super talented’ bracket. He’s a good player with nice athleticism who intercepts well, but also has his weaknesses in his kicking skills and lack of composure at times.

We clearly already have players they want, hence Marchbank being asked about. There’s no use bringing up ‘sustained success’ when talking about Marchbank until he’s shows some sustained fitness. You never plan for players breaking down, but there’s also no guarantee with players who spend significant periods on the sidelines they’ll reach the heights we’re anticipating they do.

You have to be flexible and pragmatic when it comes to your list management, and without pushing players out the door, you have to be transparent with your expectations of the squad and realistic about areas of depth and areas of weakness.

I don’t see any real value in ousting Marchbank at this point, but I certainly have concerns about his long-term position in the team and his propensity for injury. If Marchbank wanted to go elsewhere, and it allowed us to bring in a player of need I think we’d consider moving him on.
I suspect that it would be very hard to trade in players in the future if we traded out marchy against his wishes. We promise them the world to get them to join us and then move them on when it suits our purposes.

No club that is heading anywhere should show that lack of loyalty.
 

Blue__Balls

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If Papley and Martin get done there won't be much coin/ picks left to spend will there? The future first would need another first coming back.
Would also work if a future second came back to replace the one that will likely be used on Martin.

There's also the chance we could request permission to trade out next year's first rounder despite the "rules", which is a loophole the AFL have left in their system.

I'd imagine the request would be based on our extremely young list demographic and volume of high draft picks used in the last 4 years. The AFL could well be happy to see Carlton out of a few drafts to dilute the "team full of first rounders" crap that will no doubt start to build momentum as we rise. Might depend on where the pick was going - if we were fleecing GC of one of their better players it'd probably get rejected, but if the pick was going to, say, Hawthorn or Geelong who actually need to use first rounders to meet the minimum requirements, it probably gets the tick of approval.
 

zeggie

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I suspect that it would be very hard to trade in players in the future if we traded out marchy against his wishes.
There is zero chance we force Marchbank out.

We may ask the question but nothing more.

We have had excellent retention in recent years. We need to keep it that way.
 

dangerousdane

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What are you talking about, hose blokes retired.
The conversation was in regards to many posters stating, we will have to trade players soon.

Why?

The really good sides of the last decad haven’t gotten there by trading there young talent, they trade players on the fringe.
 

Funk

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And there was a time when Jones was worth nothing and now everyone has him as 1st or 2nd back picked every week.

I think it's all gbetween the ears with Levi, he is hitting his best form late in his career & in a developing list full of young guys who are still working out best positions, having a guy you can put in 3 places on the ground & trust him to do a job is worth more to Carlton than a 2nd round pick.
I reckon partly this and partly losing kg’s and getting fit.

Would love to see comparative photos os Levi this year v last year. He’d have to be at least 5kg lighter.
 

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Blue__Balls

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I'm actually warming to Jacobs now that I've thought of it. I think I can see what our club sees. I think as a direct replacement for Phillips, rather than another backup, he would be a very good fit.
Yeah, I'm kinda hoping another club offers Phillips a 2-year deal. He's OK ruck depth but a very noticable drop-off compared to Kreuzer, and his inability to play anywhere else is getting in the way of TDK's development.

Sauce for a year would be great for TDK's development, another top line AFL ruck to learn from, and if Kreuzer went down I don't think it would be detrimental at all to play Jacobs in the seniors. If anything, he might complement the midfield group better...
 

Doro

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Would also work if a future second came back to replace the one that will likely be used on Martin.

There's also the chance we could request permission to trade out next year's first rounder despite the "rules", which is a loophole the AFL have left in their system.

I'd imagine the request would be based on our extremely young list demographic and volume of high draft picks used in the last 4 years. The AFL could well be happy to see Carlton out of a few drafts to dilute the "team full of first rounders" crap that will no doubt start to build momentum as we rise. Might depend on where the pick was going - if we were fleecing GC of one of their better players it'd probably get rejected, but if the pick was going to, say, Hawthorn or Geelong who actually need to use first rounders to meet the minimum requirements, it probably gets the tick of approval.
Yeah maybe. I think realistically with Papley and Martin, the B+ mid has to be paid for with a decent player. We don't have picks for all 3.
 

zeggie

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Yeah, I'm kinda hoping another club offers Phillips a 2-year deal.
No ones going to offer him a 2 year deal. 1 year backup contract from us or someone else is the best he can hope for.

11 games in the last 3 years. Grand total of 41. He's decent in the centre but can't do anything else.

He performed his role well in Krooz's absence this year admittedly.
 

BigFrizz36

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No ones going to offer him a 2 year deal. 1 year backup contract from us or someone else is the best he can hope for.

11 games in the last 3 years. Grand total of 41. He's decent in the centre but can't do anything else.

He performed his role well in Krooz's absence this year admittedly.
I would think that we are offering Cameron (Who has played 1 game) more than one year. Wouldn't find it too hard to believe that someone would offer Phillips 2. Acquitted himself well whilst Matty was injured for a couple of games late in the season.
 

Blue__Balls

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Yeah maybe. I think realistically with Papley and Martin, the B+ mid has to be paid for with a decent player. We don't have picks for all 3.
Here's the thing - what exactly is a B+ mid?

These rating systems always cause confusion, because everyone interprets them differently.

Are Wines/Crouch B+ because they're not "elite", or are they A-graders with the real elite considered A+?

We could be talking Menegola/Langdon/Jones/Newnes type players who are established seniors, and would only cost a second rounder. If that's the case, our future first gets one of them with either a late first or a second coming back to satisfy the trade restrictions.
 

La Dispute

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I suspect that it would be very hard to trade in players in the future if we traded out marchy against his wishes. We promise them the world to get them to join us and then move them on when it suits our purposes.

No club that is heading anywhere should show that lack of loyalty.
Agreed, but if Swans offer more money and more on-field responsibility than might pique Marchy’s interest.

He’s currently behind Jones and Weiters as a key defender, and plays a slightly different role to Plowman. We’ve also got McGovern to play his role and a less advanced version in Macreadie.

We also need to move away from this useless/useful dichotomy when looking at players. We offered him game time, a better salary and the opportunity to return home, and also gave up a decent amount to bring him back. At that point in time Jones wasn’t a defender, Weitering had play one year and Macreadie hadn’t been drafted. We needed another key position player to come in, provide good output in his first few years and then develop into a high-level intercepting defender who’d be a lynch pin in defence. We’re now operating under a different set of circumstances, and we’ve got his primary role covered.

All players to some extent understand the nature of managing a list, and realise decisions are made to advance the playing group. Tough calls are made on players all the time, and Marchbank isn’t immune to this. SOS obviously rates him highly to have originally taken him at 6, and then to have given up plenty to get him to Carlton a few years later, but he’d be aware of his value and the risk he carries given his extensive injury history.

No one thought Menzel would be traded, but in hindsight it was the right call.

Wonder how SOS feels if trading Marchbank gets us Papley and a 2nd rounder to bring in another player in an area of need?
 

zeggie

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I would think that we are offering Cameron (Who has played 1 game) more than one year. Wouldn't find it too hard to believe that someone would offer Phillips 2. Acquitted himself well whilst Matty was injured for a couple of games late in the season.
Because Cameron needs to move interstate and change clubs. Requires a commitment.

Phillips has no choice. Take our deal, or not. It's just prudent list management. Absolutely no need to offer him 2 years.
 

zeggie

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Here's the thing - what exactly is a B+ mid?

These rating systems always cause confusion, because everyone interprets them differently.

Are Wines/Crouch B+ because they're not "elite", or are they A-graders with the real elite considered A+?

We could be talking Menegola/Langdon/Jones/Newnes type players who are established seniors, and would only cost a second rounder. If that's the case, our future first gets one of them with either a late first or a second coming back to satisfy the trade restrictions.
More the latter. Establish senior players who can play well, are fit, rarely injured, but will never be the no. 1 or 2 mid at a club.

Anyway it's just a generic term for someone good, that's gettable, that won't cost the earth.
 

Kruzering

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No ones going to offer him a 2 year deal. 1 year backup contract from us or someone else is the best he can hope for.

11 games in the last 3 years. Grand total of 41. He's decent in the centre but can't do anything else.

He performed his role well in Krooz's absence this year admittedly.
He seems to play really well when he comes in for the first game then goes to s**t after that
 

Blue__Balls

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Because Cameron needs to move interstate and change clubs. Requires a commitment.

Phillips has no choice. Take our deal, or not. It's just prudent list management. Absolutely no need to offer him 2 years.
That's a reason for us to not offer him 2 years, but it doesn't mean a club with a poor ruck depth set-up (ie. Essendon, Geelong) wouldn't be open to a two year deal on less money. I'm hoping one of them gives him that opportunity and he takes it...forces our hand a bit.

More the latter. Establish senior players who can play well, are fit, rarely injured, but will never be the no. 1 or 2 mid at a club.

Anyway it's just a generic term for someone good, that's gettable, that won't cost the earth.
Sounds more likely to me, but as soon as that rumour was posted everyone jumped to "Wines is down on form, he's totally B+, it must be Wines!" and "Crouch is a big injury risk, that makes him B+, it could be him too!".

If it's one of those solid supporting mids, we've absolutely got the currency to get it done in addition to Martin and Papley.
 

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