Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[The Bighouse]

Forget the small forward and you bring up West Coast?
Have a look at the impact their two smalls forwards had this in their first years; Rioli & Ryan - 52 goals in 37 games, collectively.
183sm Cripps did OK also. 38 goals in 25 games.

That's not something to dismiss so lightly. May have even been a good reason for their climb up the ladder.

True, good spread of forward play (dare we say the buzz word of last year of “craft”, forward craft) in the air & on the ground the WCE’s had it covered. Their talls are mobile as well, and they also had LeCras floating around.

I see what you’re getting at re: CamPo, though he did hit the scoreboard for 3 goals against Adelaide in a rather lacklustre game. 1 was off a hammering tackle for HTB, can’t really remember the rest, so hopefully there’s scope to consistently improve again this season - and the ball handling jitters evaporate with confidence & improved fitness gained.

 

[HARKER]

This is all true.
The point I’m making is that gun tall/mid marking forwards make the job of small/above average forwards easier.
We only need to find 1 smallish forward and our forward line is complete... His name is Pickett...!

That is also true but one has to have the quality on the ground to make good from those in the air.
I'm just not sure we do and not with some of the names we drop in, so readily.

Talk Murphy and SPS and one can see it. Some of the other names......not quite so much, but if they do.......then all great.

EDIT: Probably time to get off this topic. Right?

 

[goreds]

That is also true but one has to have the quality on the ground to make good from those in the air.
I'm just not sure we do and not with some of the names we drop in, so readily.

Talk Murphy and SPS and one can see it. Some of the other names......not quite so much, but if they do.......then all great.

EDIT: Probably time to get off this topic. Right?

Probably right!! New rules will be the key to all of this talk on forward structures...!

 

[The Bighouse]

This is all true.

The point I’m making is that gun tall/mid marking forwards make the job of small/above average forwards easier.

We only need to find 1 smallish forward and our forward line is complete... His name is Pickett...!

Rioli & Flyin’ Ryan both have special traits to play AFL and dangerous forwards. Cripps could always play, more vanilla but a valuable contributor.

Pickett (a dynamic we’re sorely missing if he was ever fit) waiting for that train to come on in but we need to find others in the interim that can offer a dangerous, attacking (+ defending) avenue to goal.

I don’t think I’ve seen a quicker player with ball in hand than Pickett recently (may get lost with it but was starting to see through the haze with more games played), think it was his 1st game at Etihad which was wow factor (but HTB though IIRC).

 

[Blue and Silver]

Forward success is downstream of team success.

Get the ball moving into the forward line well enough and often enough and somebody has to be on the end.

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[gardiner stand]

What’s happened to the Chrons chatter?

 

[Azzurro]

I assume it’s not just me getting really peeved at the “Fisher to spend 70-80% time forward” stuff?!

The guy is a midfield gun. He is almost unplayable, both in and around the contest - and entering year 3 of his career.

He will rest forward like most of our mids. I agree with some posters above, that he will be one of the most effective of the lot (time spent forward compared to goal output) when he’s doing so.

But to label him a forward/mid is so incredibly wrong it’s insulting. Clearly talent identification for a pressure forward role is based on size alone? (Given the mentions of Fisher, SPS, Murph, etc)

Bolton (and Cripps) will want Fish in the guts as often as physically possible - which means his midfield minutes will only increase further now thanks to Andrew Russell’s arrival.

Like HARKER is saying, on evidence so far, we probably need to be looking elsewhere for our long-term elite small forwards.

The ultimate (and most highly sought after) pressure is scoreboard pressure. You can’t win a game just by being really good at chasing tail. Any winning team I have ever been a part of was dangerous all over the park - the (scoreboard) pressure came from almost anywhere, and opposition didn’t know who to take out of the game.

Chasing and tackling pressure was also a hallmark of these teams, but all players on the list needed to buy in to that philosophy - or else they’d never get picked. Some were better than others, but they weren’t always the guys that converted pressure into goals.

 

[skadoosh]

I assume it’s not just me getting really peeved at the “Fisher to spend 70-80% time forward” stuff?!

The guy is a midfield gun. He is almost unplayable, both in and around the contest - and entering year 3 of his career.

He will rest forward like most of our mids. I agree with some posters above, that he will be one of the most effective of the lot (time spent forward compared to goal output) when he’s doing so.

But to label him a forward/mid is so incredibly wrong it’s insulting. Clearly talent identification for a pressure forward role is based on size alone? (Given the mentions of Fisher, SPS, Murph, etc)

Bolton (and Cripps) will want Fish in the guts as often as physically possible - which means his midfield minutes will only increase further now thanks to Andrew Russell’s arrival.

Like HARKER is saying, on evidence so far, we probably need to be looking elsewhere for our long-term elite small forwards.

The ultimate (and most highly sought after) pressure is scoreboard pressure. You can’t win a game just by being really good at chasing tail. Any winning team I have ever been a part of was dangerous all over the park - the (scoreboard) pressure came from almost anywhere, and opposition didn’t know who to take out of the game.

Chasing and tackling pressure was also a hallmark of these teams, but all players on the list needed to buy in to that philosophy - or else they’d never get picked. Some were better than others, but they weren’t always the guys that converted pressure into goals.

Agreed - he needs to play on the ball.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Forget the ‘small forward’ West Coke proved that dominant tall forwards are the way to win games. We have 3 and we can get our resting mids around them. Can you see Cripps, Setters, Murf all resting forward at the same time??? Good luck getting that ball back....

One of the more observant things Richo said after the finals was how it was tall forwards who, when the game was tied up, broke open both preliminary final (Cox) and Grand Final (Darling and Kennedy).


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[Blue__Balls]

I assume it’s not just me getting really peeved at the “Fisher to spend 70-80% time forward” stuff?!

The guy is a midfield gun. He is almost unplayable, both in and around the contest - and entering year 3 of his career.

He will rest forward like most of our mids. I agree with some posters above, that he will be one of the most effective of the lot (time spent forward compared to goal output) when he’s doing so.

But to label him a forward/mid is so incredibly wrong it’s insulting. Clearly talent identification for a pressure forward role is based on size alone? (Given the mentions of Fisher, SPS, Murph, etc)

Bolton (and Cripps) will want Fish in the guts as often as physically possible - which means his midfield minutes will only increase further now thanks to Andrew Russell’s arrival.

Like HARKER is saying, on evidence so far, we probably need to be looking elsewhere for our long-term elite small forwards.

The ultimate (and most highly sought after) pressure is scoreboard pressure. You can’t win a game just by being really good at chasing tail. Any winning team I have ever been a part of was dangerous all over the park - the (scoreboard) pressure came from almost anywhere, and opposition didn’t know who to take out of the game.

Chasing and tackling pressure was also a hallmark of these teams, but all players on the list needed to buy in to that philosophy - or else they’d never get picked. Some were better than others, but they weren’t always the guys that converted pressure into goals.

Whish is exactly why he's in my Supercoach side.

On the topic of smalls - easier to teach a goalkicker to apply pressure than it is to teach a pressure player to kick goals. The difference is in the mentality. A true small forward needs to be the playmaker, with opposition trying to stop them. A pressure forward is more about guarding a man than winning the ball.

Audution a few guys through this season, and if nobody steps up then bring in a creative small forward via draft or trade.

 

[katmanblue]

You're really missing the point here.

Pearce? Quick. A good mark. A good lead. A good kick.
Hoskin-Ellliot? Clape?

Tell me how you see the likes of Polson becoming a goal-kicker.
Tell me the tools you think he has that would allow him to become so.
I don't see them. Not in his kicking, not in his marking ability, not with his ball-handling, nor with his awareness.

Look at the players being spoken about here and build a case for them being capable of kicking goals.
I can build a case for SPS, for Fisher to a point and even Walsh this far out.....just struggling with Polson, ECurnow and even Gibbons, although to be fair I haven't watched that much of him.

Saying that all they need is time, amounts to little. One can say that about anyone and everyone.

The other side of that coin is just because you can't make a case for them, doesn't mean there isn't one to be made.

Until midway through last year Polson was being played as a mid in the VFL. It's where he always played.

Small forward is new to him. Now, he may never come good, but I think it's a little early to tell.

I do take your point that he doesn't SEEM to have the instinctive part required to be a dangerous goal kicker.

For me though, it's a matter of wait and see this year.

We aren't really going to change cattle available at this late stage.

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[thylacine60]

Forward success is downstream of team success.

Get the ball moving into the forward line well enough and often enough and somebody has to be on the end.

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bit simplistic I think - good start though........

 

[Red Bull]

The penny has dropped for Jarrod Pickett.
He now fully understands , accepts and is looking forward to everything that being a totally committed professional footballer involves.
Where he does or doesnt get in his football career wont be through the lack of effort.
Wouldnt that be music to Navy Blue ears should Russell ever share it.
The right Pickett is exactly what we need , 200 games and all that goes with a sucessfull career awaits if that penny drops ...

 

[Mr_Plow]

The penny has dropped for Jarrod Pickett.
He now fully understands , accepts and is looking forward to everything that being a totally committed professional footballer involves.
Where he does or doesnt get in his football career wont be through the lack of effort.
Wouldnt that be music to Navy Blue ears should Russell ever share it.
The right Pickett is exactly what we need , 200 games and all that goes with a sucessfull career awaits if that penny drops ...

You got my hopes up, but that would definitely be a major boost.

 

[Red Bull]

You got my hopes up, but that would definitely be a major boost.

The quick , clever small forward is a genuine discussion topic at the moment.

Polson , game enough ... but good enough ?
LeBois , nah ... cricket score odds.
Fisher , maybe ... rather him on the ball.
Murphy , our best bet in Pickett's absence atm.

Going forward , take adelaide's pick to the draft for Serong ?
Trade the pick for Billings or Butler and change ?

All the questions answered if the penny drops for Pickett ...

 

[thylacine60]

my plans for mm up forward this season are being thwarted by reports of him demolishing residential structures whilst practicing his skills pre-season

 

[The Bighouse]

The penny has dropped for Jarrod Pickett.
He now fully understands , accepts and is looking forward to everything that being a totally committed professional footballer involves.
Where he does or doesnt get in his football career wont be through the lack of effort.
Wouldnt that be music to Navy Blue ears should Russell ever share it.
The right Pickett is exactly what we need , 200 games and all that goes with a sucessfull career awaits if that penny drops ...

Wouldn’t mind a (thorough) club injury update on Tuesday and also some news on this penny.

 

[Eiffel 65]

The penny has dropped for Jarrod Pickett.
He now fully understands , accepts and is looking forward to everything that being a totally committed professional footballer involves.
Where he does or doesnt get in his football career wont be through the lack of effort.
Wouldnt that be music to Navy Blue ears should Russell ever share it.
The right Pickett is exactly what we need , 200 games and all that goes with a sucessfull career awaits if that penny drops ...

Any idea how close Pickett is to regaining his strength and pain free motion?

Is he impressing everyone with the way he has approached his rehab?

 

[Eiffel 65]

The quick , clever small forward is a genuine discussion topic at the moment.

Polson , game enough ... but good enough ?
LeBois , nah ... cricket score odds.
Fisher , maybe ... rather him on the ball.
Murphy , our best bet in Pickett's absence atm.

Going forward , take adelaide's pick to the draft for Serong ?
Trade the pick for Billings or Butler and change ?

All the questions answered if the penny drops for Pickett ...

My vote goes towards drafting Serong.

 

[Styxx]

Hope you're not in a Bikie club.

Uh, no.

 

[thylacine60]

I'm in a bikie club.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I'm in a bikie club.

The Thynks?

 

[thylacine60]

the rathynks.......

 

[VeinGlorious]

Early just means you can go again.

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Possibly a giggity

 

[Soapy V]

I'm in a bikie club.

Me too.