Bluemour Discussion Thread XVI - Facts Not Welcome

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Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
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A bust is a bust, in my view
In the big picture, sure - but if you're talking about it in reference to the performance of a recruiter, then it's a bit disingenuous to blame them for selecting players who subsequently got injured. Especially given Williamson in particular was identified as a fitness freak who excelled in various tests at the combine. There was no injury history to be ignored.
 

Bluey24

Club Legend
Oct 17, 2014
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Willo is an interesting single point of debate (as part of my wider questioning) ... While he's clearly athletically gifted (didn't he dominate the draft combine?), perhaps he slipped so far down in the draft order because others knew he was injury-prone or something else. Regardless, I'm not giving SOS a 'tick' on Willo
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
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Willo is an interesting single point of debate (as part of my wider questioning) ... While he's clearly athletically gifted (didn't he dominate the draft combine?), perhaps he slipped so far down in the draft order because others knew he was injury-prone or something else. Regardless, I'm not giving SOS a 'tick' on Willo
No reported injury issues pre-draft.
Came in and was outstanding in his debut year.
Back issues presumably linked with growth?

Plenty of players (typically the taller rangier ones) experience issues with their backs in their early years, it's not uncommon. Very rare that it kills a career, as the issues typically stabilise as they get into their 20s.

Understand not wanting to give SOS a solid tick for Willo until seeing what unfolds, but can hardly call the kid a bust as far as recruitment goes. His first season shows exactly what the club saw in him.
 

Dadda Dave

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2017
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No reported injury issues pre-draft.
Came in and was outstanding in his debut year.
Back issues presumably linked with growth?

Plenty of players (typically the taller rangier ones) experience issues with their backs in their early years, it's not uncommon. Very rare that it kills a career, as the issues typically stabilise as they get into their 20s.

Understand not wanting to give SOS a solid tick for Willo until seeing what unfolds, but can hardly call the kid a bust as far as recruitment goes. His first season shows exactly what the club saw in him.
And wasn't he a pick in the 50s?
 

BigFrizz36

Club Legend
Mar 20, 2017
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Willo is an interesting single point of debate (as part of my wider questioning) ... While he's clearly athletically gifted (didn't he dominate the draft combine?), perhaps he slipped so far down in the draft order because others knew he was injury-prone or something else. Regardless, I'm not giving SOS a 'tick' on Willo
So far you have used two examples to question sos.
Matthew lobbe a back up ruckman that we traded pick 95 for (that we wouldnt have used and that port didnt use) Port are believed to be paying a fair portion of his salary as part of this deal. He has been honest when he has played but will probably be delisted at the end of the year. Everyone speaks very highly of him as a team mate and as a person and there may be a role for him around the club.
Tom williamson pick 61. See above discussion. Looked like the draft steal of alltimes till injury intervened. Still hoping.
 

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F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
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Agreed. We've got oodles of young talent, but bugger all else - which is what I'm most critical of. It left Bolton up **** creek without a paddle and he's been made accountable. I'm primarily questioning what role SOS played in that

And sadly, Willo is looking increasingly like a bust
So a few days ago you were very critical of SOS and giving him zero credit for landing us Mckay/Curnow/Cunners by getting the picks first and then drafting them. Despite the fact that you 'rate' them and admit we have 'oodles' of young talent.

Now you're saying Willo is a bust...
I think that says it all.

I was right in calling you out for having an agenda against SOS...either that or you have unrealistic expectations that every draft pick should be a star (and not suffer any injuries whatsover apparently).
 

Crippa#9

Club Legend
Jun 19, 2007
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I am absolutely dismayed by our posters writing off setters. He gets enough of the pill. He plays with crippa. 3 more preseasons and if if he is not the 6 top players at our club then I will quit bigfooty. (barring injuries)

Top 5
Cripps
Mckay
Charlie
Weiters
walsh
setters
I don' think anyone is writing him off are they?
He's got enormous talent, enormous upside given his interrupted last two seasons and has the unique ability to get into the right position. All that said, his disposal, regardless of his setbacks, has been deplorable. It's the disposal when he's under zero pressure that isn't up to standard. Let's be honest with ourselves, he's playing AFL and as Carlton supporters we tend to find too many excuses for our players - he wouldn't be in the best 22 of a Geelong or even a skilled side like Hawthorn right now. Have a look at his first quarter last week as an example. His efficiency is becoming a liability.
He'll be right, I'm sure of it and I am happy for the club to keep playing him in the seniors however I don't think his current level of disposal should be dismissed just because we had a win.
 

Styxx

Premiership Player
Dec 8, 2007
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The only asterisk you need to remember when saying "oh we had or tradedpicks 1, 5, 6 etc" is you are drafting on exposed potential, not the finished product.

Hell we talk of St Kilda taking Mccartin at 1, and I will say it hasn't worked because the young fella didn't cop a break with concussions etc and its really hurt him as a person, not just as a footballer...AND you forget Pick 2 was Petracca who did an ACL 3 months after being drafted... AND Angus Brayshaw was Pick 3 and how close did he get to losing his career with concussions too?

Any draft Pick is pure speculation, like gambling.
 

Lace_Out

Premiership Player
Oct 1, 2014
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Setterfield had a piece of play on the weekend where the pickup and handball was so clean and effortless but it shouldn’t have been. Talent is there, his body is not, yet.
Spot on. Some of his handballs are Cripps like.
Will be a fine player once his body is built up and he gains more experiance.
Just need to make sure his intensity is where it needs to be.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
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Bluey24

Club Legend
Oct 17, 2014
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So far you have used two examples to question sos.
Matthew lobbe a back up ruckman that we traded pick 95 for (that we wouldnt have used and that port didnt use) Port are believed to be paying a fair portion of his salary as part of this deal. He has been honest when he has played but will probably be delisted at the end of the year. Everyone speaks very highly of him as a team mate and as a person and there may be a role for him around the club.
Tom williamson pick 61. See above discussion. Looked like the draft steal of alltimes till injury intervened. Still hoping.
Ah, good one BF. I forgot about the Lobbe deal - I really like that trade

So, to keep things fair, I've been reminded about the dealing SOS did in year one of the re-build, as well as the late pick for Garlett and this Lobbe trade ...

Happy to admit when shown I'm off-kilter!

It's become clear thanks to others that I've been too harsh on SOS in some of my previous posts - borne out of frustration trying to explain 2018 and this season ... sad seeing Bolton sacked ... coupled also with some big misses by SOS

I'm not over the moon with SOS, but I'll reel in my criticism for now
 

Bluey24

Club Legend
Oct 17, 2014
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So a few days ago you were very critical of SOS and giving him zero credit for landing us Mckay/Curnow/Cunners by getting the picks first and then drafting them. Despite the fact that you 'rate' them and admit we have 'oodles' of young talent.

Now you're saying Willo is a bust...
I think that says it all.

I was right in calling you out for having an agenda against SOS...either that or you have unrealistic expectations that every draft pick should be a star (and not suffer any injuries whatsover apparently).
Again, no 'agenda' against SOS

Willo has shown only glimpses for mine, nothing more. Until he does, I'm not giving SOS a tick on this one ...
 

blueycarlton

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Sep 17, 2008
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I don' think anyone is writing him off are they?
He's got enormous talent, enormous upside given his interrupted last two seasons and has the unique ability to get into the right position. All that said, his disposal, regardless of his setbacks, has been deplorable. It's the disposal when he's under zero pressure that isn't up to standard. Let's be honest with ourselves, he's playing AFL and as Carlton supporters we tend to find too many excuses for our players - he wouldn't be in the best 22 of a Geelong or even a skilled side like Hawthorn right now. Have a look at his first quarter last week as an example. His efficiency is becoming a liability.
He'll be right, I'm sure of it and I am happy for the club to keep playing him in the seniors however I don't think his current level of disposal should be dismissed just because we had a win.
Yes, his disposal and goal kicking needs work, but so does SPS.
Samo's kicking and handball is often short/intercepted or touched by the opposition. His goal kicking is poor as shown on Saturday.
He has played 53 games and Setterfield 10. I doubt Setterfield will be as poor in another 40 games.
Now that Bolton's shackles have been loosened, and the pressure released, perhaps they all will improve in the coming weeks.
 
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