Rumour Bluemour Discussion XLI

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[DangerousD]

Was it? We’d just have to cut another player now.

For sure, but the positive would be, we gave ourselves a chance at unearthing a player, we would have also given another player the chance at playing AFL.

We did neither

 

[DangerousD]

It does make sense though. His contract paid out, so if he gets re-rookied, his base payments fall outside of the salary cap. Clumsy, but realistic.

This is the part I think most of us disagree on.

We have an obligation to pay Elijah the terms of his contract, but when?

I just assume that Elijah will just keep getting paid over the preseason and throughout next year, as if he was listed. Unless we wanted to pay him out and include the $$$ in the cap this year.

I see it similar to when a contracted player like Oliver or Grundy is traded, his previous teams aren’t required to pay out the balance, they just pay what they owe or what they negotiate.

 

[Stamos]

For sure, but the positive would be, we gave ourselves a chance at unearthing a player, we would have also given another player the chance at playing AFL.

We did neither

It doesn’t make it a “terrible decision” though.

 

[DangerousD]

It doesn’t make it a “terrible decision” though.

Terrible is probably a bit strong but I hated it at the time and I still think it was wrong.

I also didn’t realise how bad we were for list spots.

Needing to delist 2 contracted players and trade another just to get through, is not a good reflection of the list team.

I do like the train on opportunity offered to White and Hollands, I do find the Hollands one strange though.

I really rate him, but I’m applying my own pub test here, if Hollands was so bad for culture, they wouldn’t invite him back.

I now wonder if most of the rumours are BS and he has just lost the trust of the coaches and playing group to present and apply himself in a professional manner.

This would be inline with his media reported issues, him being seen with large parts of the group during post season and this decision by the club.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

If we are trying to fix our culture, and Elijah is allegedly bad for our culture, then why not just cut ties. Club first.

I think this is how I see it too, depending on what actually occured.

Pretty sure no one here knows exactly what Eli's 'crimes' involve... is it just recreationally misbehaving?...a dishonesty issue?...a major falling out with certain team mates?

He shouldn't be excused of 'said' discretions just because he's skilled in areas the club needs(which seems to be the common denominator here)

If it was Fog or Mots, would they be given another chance?

 

[Red Bull]

Can’t be bothered with all the permutations.

What’s clear today, as has always been the case in footy, if you can play, anything short of murder is pretty much accepted by clubs.

Hollands can play … and the club will find a way …

 

[katmanblue]

It doesn’t make it a “terrible decision” though.

It was hoping for the best rather than planning for the worst

 

[BlueTongue]

Terrible is probably a bit strong but I hated it at the time and I still think it was wrong.

I also didn’t realise how bad we were for list spots.

Needing to delist 2 contracted players and trade another just to get through, is not a good reflection of the list team.

I do like the train on opportunity offered to White and Hollands, I do find the Hollands one strange though.

I really rate him, but I’m applying my own pub test here, if Hollands was so bad for culture, they wouldn’t invite him back.

I now wonder if most of the rumours are BS and he has just lost the trust of the coaches and playing group to present and apply himself in a professional manner.

This would be inline with his media reported issues, him being seen with large parts of the group during post season and this decision by the club.

So the ITKs either know and (understandably) aren't commenting on EH's personal issues, or general 'culture status', or else they are as in the dark as the rest of us.

Safe to say rumours are not the best way to judge a person, but the whole Charlie Curnow saga showed us how we respond, with even the smallest unsubstantiated rumour - so not a good source.

Obviously there is more to consider than 'Bad Egg - Delist & Gone' vs 'Mental state is not great - let's take a chance we can get him through it'. Like I mentioned in another post, I don't really like it, especially when you have Will White - who's got some great attributes we need, who bleeds for the jumper and wants to do his best - battling for the same spot, and may ultimately lose to EH as he's not as skilled, only to have 'Lij burn it down again.

I guess I'll just have to trust in GW again, who has so far done most of the hard stuff no one else would do.

 

[JJBagger]

It was hoping for the best rather than planning for the worst

It was planning for the best - not hoping

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I just can’t believe Fog is still on the list and Will is fighting for his career, and let’s be honest will not likely get the last spot on our list against EH.

We’ve seen what Fog can and can’t do over many seasons now, he’s not going to get better

 

[Ezayyak]

My only knock on White, and maybe its just what I think I saw versus stats, but he missed too many gettable shots. For a team that seems to make scoring so hard, missing pretty routine set shots just makes it harder for the whole team.

Interestingly, I remember I saw a stat about halfway through the season that he White was number one at Carlton in direct score involvements. Thought this is something we could really work with. I do remember during his best games he was setting up players with some ripping kicks. He fell away pretty quickly though the mid part of the season. Maybe his issue is, he isn't for enough to last a season?

 

[Dramoth]

You also could borrow some Gary glitter boots

View attachment 2463935

I would have suggested Gene Simmons boots. Not someone as… notorious as him.

 

[Dramoth]

Can’t we put HOF & Kemp on the LTI list to open up list space??

Just sayin’

HOF is already on the LTI. Kemp should be back midseason(ish).

 

[The Bighouse]

Interestingly, I remember I saw a stat about halfway through the season that he White was number one at Carlton in direct score involvements. Thought this is something we could really work with. I do remember during his best games he was setting up players with some ripping kicks. He fell away pretty quickly though the mid part of the season. Maybe his issue is, he isn't for enough to last a season?

Which is fair enough considering he was a VFL player training with the seniors.

He can do a big pre-season with the AFL team to get himself fitter for 2026, with hope for SSP, MSD or a straight swap for one of our OOC at the end of the season.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

HOF is already on the LTI.

Not yet but potentially.

 

[Jimmae]

HOF is already on the LTI. Kemp should be back midseason(ish).

LTI was replaced with a season injury list years ago now.

Kemp and HOF were on it for 2025 along with Jagga, but that's over now.

 

[Bletch]

LTI was replaced with a season injury list years ago now.

Kemp and HOF were on it for 2025 along with Jagga, but that's over now.

Yes!

Anyone on the Inactive List for 2025 must be added back in to the list for the first list lodgment (which is next week). Cannot have anyone on the Inactive List between Oct-31 and Dec-1.

 

[dangertroy]

I also didn’t realise how bad we were for list spots.

Needing to delist 2 contracted players and trade another just to get through, is not a good reflection of the list team.

I don’t see it as bad list management. Part of the issue we’ve had with list spots is due to us adding players via SSP and MSD to cover the long term injuries.

We came into the trade period with two extras on the list (White and Young), who had replaced Jagga and Kemp. So we had to make two extra cuts to the list just to get us down to where we should be. Doesn’t have to be White and Young necessarily, but they would have both known that they were a chance of being delisted at the end of the season. I remember a bit of angst around us not moving Newman to the list and activating another spot - if we did that would be looking at making yet another cut.

Binnsy being cut while being in contract just means that we valued him less than we did another player who may have been out of contract. Personally, I don’t think you should keep a player you don’t think is worth the spot over one you do because of an extra year on a contract. Ofcourse cap space sometimes says you have to, but clearing so much cap space this off season opened up our options to do so. Same with Elijah, but that one feels like an even more complex situation - being able to pay him out and train on to earn a spot (if one opens up) seems like a good option, particularly for those who wanted to see him given one final chance.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Can we stop conflating these things and putting them together. He doesnt have mental health problems, he has addiction problems. They are not remotely connected.

Its high time professional footballers stopped using "mental health issues" as a mask for their often illegal and criminal acts i.e. assaults, DV, drug issues etc. Its AFL/ Club/ Player Manager PR Policy to wheel out " mental health issues" when a player does the wrong thing. It's disgraceful.

It does a massive disservice to those players that have genuine mental health issues.

Agree. Plenty of people with genuine mental health issues should feel insulted that some spoiled ****wit got caught doing something dubious, and labels the guilt and embarrassment they deserve be feeling as mental health for sympathy.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

This is the part I think most of us disagree on.

We have an obligation to pay Elijah the terms of his contract, but when?

Interesting this. If he has ‘transgressed’ and was seemingly unavailable for 4 weeks and then 12 weeks surely he has broken the terms of his contract ?

I did laugh during the trade period with the Charlie situation whereby people would ring into SEN and say ‘if Carlton don’t trade Charlie to Geelong he should just say he will sit out the year and they can pay him $800k for nothing ‘.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

We have an obligation to pay Elijah the terms of his contract, but when?

I just assume that Elijah will just keep getting paid over the preseason and throughout next year, as if he was listed. Unless we wanted to pay him out and include the $$$ in the cap this year

Early payouts are usually done if they agree to a reduction. Binns has probably done this as the notice said "agreed to part ways" or whatever

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Um for all the people who think he will work hard and gain his spot, I would say someone else will snap him up now for absolutely nothing. He wont play for us again and go on to be a bloody good player somewhere else. I think this has been handled appallingly by the club. Not happy, he is a real talent.

So it's the club's fault that E.H can't stay on the straight and narrow. Two clubs in a row with multiple x eleged #@&$@n whatever he's done.

We are all responsible for our own actions! The club shouldn't be considered to be a day care centre.

For some reason AFL players are often exempt from the law and forgiven far too often, too quickly and too regularly because they have high profiles.

Any supporter of my vintage will remember many incidents, some very very serious over the years that have been swept under the carpet. Some that would make your hair curl.

Supporters put these athletes on pedestals and blindly defend them to the hilt regardless of their actions.

I'm devastated that E.H has repeatedly failed to meet the standards expected of not just two football clubs but also general society. Other young people of similar age probably don't get as many chances.

He is such a talented footballer and he seems to have wandered down an alternative path. I wish him luck but it's all up to him from here.

 

[Sector 7G]

Interesting this. If he has ‘transgressed’ and was seemingly unavailable for 4 weeks and then 12 weeks surely he has broken the terms of his contract ?

I did laugh during the trade period with the Charlie situation whereby people would ring into SEN and say ‘if Carlton don’t trade Charlie to Geelong he should just say he will sit out the year and they can pay him $800k for nothing ‘.

In that circumstance CC could just play the mental health card like JUH. Hard to not pay him.

Dogs were relieved that JUH played the indigenous game without permission that gave them a right to terminate him. Suns wanted the dogs to pay JUH $300k and they refused.

 

[Shambolic]

Early payouts are usually done if they agree to a reduction. Binns has probably done this as the notice said "agreed to part ways" or whatever

COntractually isnt it generally about breach and reduction / offset.... if his contract is clear, the club can threaten to terminate and reneg.

 

[BluStreak]

With all this commentary on Elijah this year I have often wondered how Ollie is coping.
Could the club be taking in to consideration the effect on the family in giving Elijah a 2026 train on option?
Just in case, this is a question not a statement.