Bluemour Melting Pot XIX - Who the hell is Brackets ( )?

Blue Bloods

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 1, 2009
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Mod Notice:-

Continued from here:-



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Just like to thank Aphrodite and the other Carlton mods who started the Bluemours NON Discussion Thread and who have kept it free of chat over the past few years.

It helps so much when you just don't have the time to read through this thread, cheers and great job.
 
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RedFury

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Jul 12, 2010
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And I wouldn’t be upset if he threw Dow in the trade with a pick to get Papley
I would - that would be a horrible decision.

Dow was a pick 3 who has only been in the system 2 years and his body really hasn't developed yet. He's got a great attitude and plenty of genuine AFL attributes.

Will still be an absolute gun imo - just needs time.
 
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Michael Jezz

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Jan 30, 2007
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Have you ever compared the two?


Different types of players, so some differences in stats as one would expect, but basically very similar output though it could be argued that Martin has a significantly higher ceiling.
You miss the point it is the price of the risk Martin is 700k for potential compared to Papley who is proven
 

teagueyubeauty

Premiership Player
Oct 5, 2004
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Going to The Champions of Carlton function tonight on a VIP table with Diesel and Sticks any questions for two of our best ever?
Has Diesel ever caught up and had a chat to the umpires that robbed him of a third Brownlow medal?

And what does he think his average possession count would be in today’s game?
 

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Arr0w

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Nov 13, 2015
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These rumours relating to SOS not prepared to renegotiate Jack Martin's contract are starting to alarm me. Wasnt it the same SOS whose offer to Saad was substantially inferior to Essendon steering him their way. You can safely say he stuffed up on those negotiations. I go back to T Mitchell. One of the reasons we weren't into him was his asking price. Another miscalculation?. Not sure but didnt Essendon also outbid us for Devon Smith? Who determines the size of the contract offer, SOS Lloyd or Agresta?

Dirk
What have those sides achieved after attracting those players?

Perhaps SOS's statement of building a mid table side being easy is apt, because that is all the Hawks and * are
 
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Heres Waite

Club Legend
Aug 16, 2009
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These rumours relating to SOS not prepared to renegotiate Jack Martin's contract are starting to alarm me. Wasnt it the same SOS whose offer to Saad was substantially inferior to Essendon steering him their way. You can safely say he stuffed up on those negotiations. I go back to T Mitchell. One of the reasons we weren't into him was his asking price. Another miscalculation?. Not sure but didnt Essendon also outbid us for Devon Smith? Who determines the size of the contract offer, SOS Lloyd or Agresta?

Dirk
I’d prefer Carlton’s list over Essendon or Hawthorn any day!!!
 

bluebrew

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Dec 15, 2006
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Agree.

Cogs, from what I heard, liked living in Sydney.
Cogs is from WA, no go home factor to come here.

He signed where he wanted to play.
If he was desperate to leave there was nothing stopping him leaving, no matter what Gil said or wanted.

Yes, AFL sweetener was added, but it was just sugar.

We move on to the next target.
And if you were a GWS player who is "marquee" wouldn't you try and get some ambassadorial money in the year leading up to your contract expiring Free agency?
 

Chalky Blues

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I give up. I think I need a break from here.
Sorry SB wasn’t trying to upset people on here but you don’t get what you want in the trade period without giving up something and of all our young guys with some currency I’d be least upset by losing Dow he just seems to turn the ball over far to much for my liking but I guess you rate him higher than I do and that’s fine.
Fisher on the other hand I love because he always looks to be giving his all and makes things happen and has that spark, definitely wouldn’t trade Fisher
 

BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
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I would - that would be a horrible decision.

Dow was a pick 3 who has only been in the system 2 years and his body really hasn't developed yet. He's got a great attitude and plenty of genuine AFL attributes.

Will still be an absolute gun imo - just needs time.
I always find this term most interesting. How much time is deemed to be sufficient in evaluating and making a decision on a player? Just a general question, not at all based on Dow and his two seasons.
 

Dadda Dave

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2017
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Sorry SB wasn’t trying to upset people on here but you don’t get what you want in the trade period without giving up something and of all our young guys with some currency I’d be least upset by losing Dow he just seems to turn the ball over far to much for my liking but I guess you rate him higher than I do and that’s fine.
Fisher on the other hand I love because he always looks to be giving his all and makes things happen and has that spark, definitely wouldn’t trade Fisher
We have to keep in mind that Fish has had 2extra pre seasons than Dow..
 

Jimmyonesix

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Jun 7, 2019
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Sorry SB wasn’t trying to upset people on here but you don’t get what you want in the trade period without giving up something and of all our young guys with some currency I’d be least upset by losing Dow he just seems to turn the ball over far to much for my liking but I guess you rate him higher than I do and that’s fine.
Fisher on the other hand I love because he always looks to be giving his all and makes things happen and has that spark, definitely wouldn’t trade Fisher
One thing Fischer needs a right foot kick and handball. Always turns back to his left — he lucky Byron Pickett is retired
 

mrjones

Team Captain
Nov 27, 2009
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Maybe the wrong thread, but I don’t understand the negative Bolton posts.
The man played a major part in Our reset/rebuild/becoming a modern complete AFL organisation.
100% Teague is the right man to take us forward but Bolts is like Cripps, battles his arse off and just made the impossible handball to Teague to get Carlton home to 17.
I love him for what he brought to our club.
 

PDP_Shazza

Rookie
Oct 9, 2016
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Sorry SB wasn’t trying to upset people on here but you don’t get what you want in the trade period without giving up something and of all our young guys with some currency I’d be least upset by losing Dow he just seems to turn the ball over far to much for my liking but I guess you rate him higher than I do and that’s fine.
Fisher on the other hand I love because he always looks to be giving his all and makes things happen and has that spark, definitely wouldn’t trade Fisher
I personally think you're wrong about Dow. I think it will be clear to you in a couple of years.

If we did a straight swap for Dow, IMO it would be in Sydneys favour!
 
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RedFury

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I always find this term most interesting. How much time is deemed to be sufficient in evaluating and making a decision on a player? Just a general question, not at all based on Dow and his two seasons.
Difficult question to answer but for me it's when you've passed a certain point of likelihood that you're going to see significant improvement from that player. I think for starters you need to take into account:

-Age/mental maturity
-Physical maturity
-Raw talent level
-Experience at AFL level
-Work ethic / attitude and ability to improve on deficiencies.
-Injury proneness
-Flexibility/Ability to play multiple positions

Obviously that's complicated and involves a range of different factors which vary per player, but to use Dow as an example I'd say it's giving him a clear 2-3 years to develop his body and iron out some of his clear deficiencies.

If in 2-3 years we're still seeing the same Dow we see now then my opinion on him would have changed - but I think that's unlikely to happen.
 
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BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
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Difficult question to answer but for me it's when you've passed a certain point of likelihood that you're going to see significant improvement from that player. Obviously that's complicated and involves a range of different factors which vary per player, but to use Dow as an example I'd say it's giving him a clear 2-3 years to develop his body and iron out some of his clear deficiencies.

If in 2-3 years we're still seeing the same Dow we see now then my opinion on him would have changed - but I think that's unlikely to happen.
I agree its a difficult question to answer with varying factors for different players, but I tend to agree with your suggestion of around five years/ seasons. Obviously some will fall away well before then and the cream of the players will continue to improve as they hit their prime years. But I would suggest that five seasons is enough to find out where they sit on an AFL list as a best 22 player, fringe player or solely a depth player.
 

RedFury

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I agree its a difficult question to answer with varying factors for different players, but I tend to agree with your suggestion of around five years/ seasons. Obviously some will fall away well before then and the cream of the players will continue to improve as they hit their prime years. But I would suggest that five seasons is enough to find out where they sit on an AFL list as a best 22 player, fringe player or solely a depth player.
I amended my post with a few more details but yeah I'd agree that generally 5 years is a pretty good timeframe to know exactly what you're dealing with in a player.

There will be the odd case where significant, unexpected improvement comes after that point but you can't reliably predict it so can't keep players around just in the odd chance it might happen - lists spots being so valuable and all.

The one exception to this rule can be when a player is severely restricted by injury for the first few years of their career - then it indeed can be longer before you see their best, but the risk here is that the injuries may have greatly diminished what that best will be.

That's starting to become my fear for Williamson and, to a lesser extent, Cuningham.
 

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