Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[zyzzbruh]

Then why shop our pick 9? and string us along

Not sure if we did. Could've held off on Daniher because we were trying to get a deal off you guys first for all we know. Even if that were the case, SOS should've issued a time frame which if not met, meant you guys move to plan B and focus on Martin and maybe a butler. Would've hastened our decision making aswell since the 9 could've been so instrumental. SOS put all his eggs in one basket and got burnt. If papley didn't eventuate, butler should've always been next priority imo.

 

[Tazblue]

Then why shop our pick 9? and string us along

Because they wanted our 9 outright

 

[zyzzbruh]

FWIW we would have offered Pick 9 straight up. One of our best ITK’s confirmed that once Daniher was out of play, Sydney asked for “much more than Pick 9”. Obviously the Swans had to sell any Papley trade as a clear “win” to their supporters, otherwise it would have looked like a defeat. A shame as most here would love Papley to be a blue including SOS since he spent at least 6 months chasing him.

Would like to hear that from the horses mouth. IMO we would've accepted 9 in a heartbeat, he was a rookie pick for us. Happy to put my hand up if wrong. And I think he would've been worth the pick 9 for you guys more than what he is a loss to us.

 

[JustaBattler]

1. SOS allowed himself and Carlton to get locked into waiting for an Essendon Sydney deal - whereby they got to play with and consider our pick#9 as their own option - for the whole trade period.
2. GC sees the Papley deal fall over and decide that they can do a deal for Carltons #9 - this was a perfectly 'rational' move by GCS - if they hadn't tried it - it would be a mark against their list management.

Both combined facts point to a failure of basic preparedness in the process. If you have to wait till 30 minutes before a trade period ends to see what eventuates -you are just gambling. This has now occurred 2 years in a row - last year we were waiting for Shiel to make up his mind - interestingly, on both occasions SOS's 'mate' Dodoro had the last say. Not a smart way to organise oneself I would have thought.

Nothing that "itk" posters have to say about Sydney or Essendon changing 'agreements' means anything - if you allow yourself to be hostage you will treated like a hostage. I also don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the AFL in gifting Suns their picks also asked them to flex muscle at Carlton by being unreasonable about Martin - they saw a pick9 up for negotiation - and went for it.

It is easy for people to suggest after the fact that Papley and Martin were the only players that Carlton were interested in.....

If that is the case- then it shows a lack of imagination on the part of List management - no, I think all that happened was that SOS was suckered by Sydney and Essendon and then to compound the insult - slapped hard by Suns.

This after the fact that SOS helped Sydney with pick swaps AND broke a 16 yr moratorium in dealing with Essendon on Phillips - including an exchange of picks.

Not a good look and explains his ashen faced expression come end of trade period.

This supporter doesn't need to gild the lily in supporting Carlton - as far as achieving objective of securing a top quality specialist small forward ( on top of Eddie) the trade period was a fail.

As for Martin it seems that SOS (at least) has plans for getting him outside of normal trade period - good luck with that - I hope we do.

No doubt SOS and co have learned some hard lessons - and perhaps we might feel confident that they will be put into practise going forward - secure agreement or move on.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Because they wanted our 9 outright

Exactly, it was basically a stalemate from all 3 ends.

I think we would've tried to facilitate something further with Essendon if you agreed to give us 9 outright.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Nothing to fear.

Nothing to doubt.

 

[Blue Ratts]

Actually, I'd applaud them if they didn't tell us anything at all. As a board, we don't deserve it and we will all find out what's what at trade time anyway.

Well yeah, I would hate it to impinge on a speculative and be detrimental to the CFC. but as a reader we all wanna know whats going on and if we get snippets of information it keeps this forum and the interests of the CFC going.

 

[Blue Ratts]

Would like to hear that from the horses mouth. IMO we would've accepted 9 in a heartbeat, he was a rookie pick for us. Happy to put my hand up if wrong. And I think he would've been worth the pick 9 for you guys more than what he is a loss to us.

1. SOS allowed himself and Carlton to get locked into waiting for an Essendon Sydney deal - whereby they got to play with and consider our pick#9 as their own option - for the whole trade period.
2. GC sees the Papley deal fall over and decide that they can do a deal for Carltons #9 - this was a perfectly 'rational' move by GCS - if they hadn't tried it - it would be a mark against their list management.

Both combined facts point to a failure of basic preparedness in the process. If you have to wait till 30 minutes before a trade period ends to see what eventuates -you are just gambling. This has now occurred 2 years in a row - last year we were waiting for Shiel to make up his mind - interestingly, on both occasions SOS's 'mate' Dodoro had the last say. Not a smart way to organise oneself I would have thought.

Nothing that "itk" posters have to say about Sydney or Essendon changing 'agreements' means anything - if you allow yourself to be hostage you will treated like a hostage. I also don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the AFL in gifting Suns their picks also asked them to flex muscle at Carlton by being unreasonable about Martin - they saw a pick9 up for negotiation - and went for it.

It is easy for people to suggest after the fact that Papley and Martin were the only players that Carlton were interested in.....

If that is the case- then it shows a lack of imagination on the part of List management - no, I think all that happened was that SOS was suckered by Sydney and Essendon and then to compound the insult - slapped hard by Suns.

This after the fact that SOS helped Sydney with pick swaps AND broke a 16 yr moratorium in dealing with Essendon on Phillips - including an exchange of picks.

Not a good look and explains his ashen faced expression come end of trade period.

This supporter doesn't need to gild the lily in supporting Carlton - as far as achieving objective of securing a top quality specialist small forward ( on top of Eddie) the trade period was a fail.

As for Martin it seems that SOS (at least) has plans for getting him outside of normal trade period - good luck with that - I hope we do.

No doubt SOS and co have learned some hard lessons - and perhaps we might feel confident that they will be put into practise going forward - secure agreement or move on.

Think your jumping to delusions here

 

[zyzzbruh]

1. SOS allowed himself and Carlton to get locked into waiting for an Essendon Sydney deal - whereby they got to play with and consider our pick#9 as their own option - for the whole trade period.
2. GC sees the Papley deal fall over and decide that they can do a deal for Carltons #9 - this was a perfectly 'rational' move by GCS - if they hadn't tried it - it would be a mark against their list management.

Both combined facts point to a failure of basic preparedness in the process. If you have to wait till 30 minutes before a trade period ends to see what eventuates -you are just gambling. This has now occurred 2 years in a row - last year we were waiting for Shiel to make up his mind - interestingly, on both occasions SOS's 'mate' Dodoro had the last say. Not a smart way to organise oneself I would have thought.

Nothing that "itk" posters have to say about Sydney or Essendon changing 'agreements' means anything - if you allow yourself to be hostage you will treated like a hostage. I also don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the AFL in gifting Suns their picks also asked them to flex muscle at Carlton by being unreasonable about Martin - they saw a pick9 up for negotiation - and went for it.

It is easy for people to suggest after the fact that Papley and Martin were the only players that Carlton were interested in.....

If that is the case- then it shows a lack of imagination on the part of List management - no, I think all that happened was that SOS was suckered by Sydney and Essendon and then to compound the insult - slapped hard by Suns.

This after the fact that SOS helped Sydney with pick swaps AND broke a 16 yr moratorium in dealing with Essendon on Phillips - including an exchange of picks.

Not a good look and explains his ashen faced expression come end of trade period.

This supporter doesn't need to gild the lily in supporting Carlton - as far as achieving objective of securing a top quality specialist small forward ( on top of Eddie) the trade period was a fail.

As for Martin it seems that SOS (at least) has plans for getting him outside of normal trade period - good luck with that - I hope we do.

No doubt SOS and co have learned some hard lessons - and perhaps we might feel confident that they will be put into practise going forward - secure agreement or move on.

I'm under the impression we were shopping your 9 with our 25 heading your way. Which means we were probably low balling Essendon because we weren't happy with giving up 25 for papley. I think 9 outright would have made us more willing to deal further with Essendon. Pick 5+papley+25 for Daniher was just not feasible. Hence why we were trying to broker a lesser deal with Essendon which never eventuated. If we got to keep our 25, I think we would have been happy to offer 9+5 to them.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Its an interesting argument.

Another example is that Nick Stevens chose to go into the PSD rather than re-sign with the Power. In that instance Carlton drafted him, though his destination club was Collingwood.

At the end of the day the players contracts are held by the AFL, and the AFL funds the clubs on their player payments.

Stevens said he'd have no problem going to us though, and came to terms with us immediately after the trade fell through.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm under the impression we were shopping your 9 with our 25 heading your way. Which means we were probably low balling Essendon because we weren't happy with giving up 25 for papley. I think 9 outright would have made us more willing to deal further with Essendon. Pick 5+papley+25 for Daniher was just not feasible. Hence why we were trying to broker a lesser deal with Essendon which never eventuated. If we got to keep our 25, I think we would have been happy to offer 9+5 to them.

Fanciful to think that a mid second round pick stopped 2 deals going through. By all accounts you guys didn't even put 5 up.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Think your jumping to delusions here

We didn't play with your pick 9. Playing with that pick 9 also meant our 25 was heading to you. That's makes a big difference in terms of how high we couldve gone for Daniher.

 

[thylacine60]

geez, this post trade period autopsy blame dumping is tedious..........

 

[zyzzbruh]

Fanciful to think that a mid second round pick stopped 2 deals going through. By all accounts you guys didn't even put 5 up.

It doesn't sound like alot, but it does make a big difference if you look at the whole picture of what we put out vs what comes in. 5 was never going up until you gave us 9 outright. Hence why we were lowballing. Anyways I'm out, we all screwed up in the end.

 

[JustaBattler]

Think your jumping to delusions here

you are entitled to your opinion - I respect your right to use a one liner any time you like. Hope you can cop it as well as you have just dished it out.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

It doesn't sound like alot, but it does make a big difference if you look at the whole picture of what we put out vs what comes in. 5 was never going up until you gave us 9 outright. Hence why we were lowballing. Anyways I'm out, we all screwed up in the end.

Well done. I hope Papley is happy

 

[SaltPeter]

Stevens said he'd have no problem going to us though, and came to terms with us immediately after the trade fell through.

Of course. I don't have a problem with it. I do find the dilemma that crops up occasionally over perceived restraint of trade interesting though. And I think a lot of people look at it from the wrong perspective.

 

[Iamcarlton]

BUTLER is a fricken DECK CHAIR.Time to make the 8 not fill in holes would not get a game in our side please people.

Yes he would easily he's not a deckchair at all victim of circumstance with Richmond having a plethora of small forwards .
Far better than the 0 small forwards we had until Eddie arrived to make that 1 .

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm under the impression we were shopping your 9 with our 25 heading your way. Which means we were probably low balling Essendon because we weren't happy with giving up 25 for papley. I think 9 outright would have made us more willing to deal further with Essendon. Pick 5+papley+25 for Daniher was just not feasible. Hence why we were trying to broker a lesser deal with Essendon which never eventuated. If we got to keep our 25, I think we would have been happy to offer 9+5 to them.

We (probably) will never know - I am surprised that Sydney and Carlton couldn't come to an agreement on Papley - sans Daniher tbh. It is a convenient story though for both Sydney and Essendon to put out there that no Daniher deal no Papley deal. I don't think Papley and Sydney are going to end well - just like I can't see Martin and GC or Daniher and Essendon becoming best buddies.

The faster the AFL grows up and fixes player movement like every other mature sport out there has - the better.

 

[Beast__Mode]

Sydney were offering Carlton’s pick to Essendon but somehow weren’t making the Papley trade contingent on Daniher. That is pretzel shaped logic.

Anyway, Color me sceptical about getting Martin in any draft. we have ITK saying AFL were driving such a ludicrous valuation of him, and ITK saying we’ll walk him through a draft process?

Those two positions have no logical connection. If the AFL/Gold Coast want him at Gold Coast - he’ll be at Gold Coast. End of story.

I truly appreciate the info shared by ITK , I think for the main it’s shared with good intent, accurately at the time of sharing and not for personal ego stroking. But if I’ve learned a personal lesson over this and last trade period it’s that i’ll Believe it when I see it. Because if we’re as consistently blindsided or upended as the info shared by our rumour gurus would suggest, there’s a much bigger issue around competence at play and I don’t think SOS is incompetent.

I hope the club conducts a thorough review of this and the FA window. While we can point to reasons behind individual (non)transactions, there’s a trend building and we can’t have targets having to worry about our ability to get them here if they nominate us. Players and their managers won’t be interested in excuses, only the results we can deliver as a club. Get on to it, Cain.

 

[bmaurizio]

Could someone please clarify does an OOC player automatically become a DFA after 31 October up until the 2019 Draft?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

1. SOS allowed himself and Carlton to get locked into waiting for an Essendon Sydney deal - whereby they got to play with and consider our pick#9 as their own option - for the whole trade period.
2. GC sees the Papley deal fall over and decide that they can do a deal for Carltons #9 - this was a perfectly 'rational' move by GCS - if they hadn't tried it - it would be a mark against their list management.

Both combined facts point to a failure of basic preparedness in the process. If you have to wait till 30 minutes before a trade period ends to see what eventuates -you are just gambling. This has now occurred 2 years in a row - last year we were waiting for Shiel to make up his mind - interestingly, on both occasions SOS's 'mate' Dodoro had the last say. Not a smart way to organise oneself I would have thought.

Nothing that "itk" posters have to say about Sydney or Essendon changing 'agreements' means anything - if you allow yourself to be hostage you will treated like a hostage. I also don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the AFL in gifting Suns their picks also asked them to flex muscle at Carlton by being unreasonable about Martin - they saw a pick9 up for negotiation - and went for it.

It is easy for people to suggest after the fact that Papley and Martin were the only players that Carlton were interested in.....

If that is the case- then it shows a lack of imagination on the part of List management - no, I think all that happened was that SOS was suckered by Sydney and Essendon and then to compound the insult - slapped hard by Suns.

This after the fact that SOS helped Sydney with pick swaps AND broke a 16 yr moratorium in dealing with Essendon on Phillips - including an exchange of picks.

Not a good look and explains his ashen faced expression come end of trade period.

This supporter doesn't need to gild the lily in supporting Carlton - as far as achieving objective of securing a top quality specialist small forward ( on top of Eddie) the trade period was a fail.

As for Martin it seems that SOS (at least) has plans for getting him outside of normal trade period - good luck with that - I hope we do.

No doubt SOS and co have learned some hard lessons - and perhaps we might feel confident that they will be put into practise going forward - secure agreement or move on.

Some really good points here JaB. As much as we do put SOS on a pedestal, it is high risk to rely on a trade outside of your control to secure a player/s who has nominated your club....especially when it's Dodoro, who has a proven track record.

The Daniher trade falls over at the last moment, which the ripple effect means we get neither of the players we put all of our chips on. And any other players we may have had an interest in had already been snapped up by other clubs as a consequence.

I admired the St Kilda list manager (no idea who he is) that put a deadline on the Hill trade with Freo, and when they demanded overs, he said "**** you, we're pushing ahead anyway", and proceeded to trade their pick 6 with GWS to facilitate other trades....and ended up calling Freo's bluff, which they got Hill anyway....as well as all the other players they targeted.

Although it's easy for us to scream out from the cheap seats, in hindsight it did seem a high risk strategy, that all fell over disastrously at the eleventh hour....that part is unfortunately a fact.

 

[zyzzbruh]

We (probably) will never know - I am surprised that Sydney and Carlton couldn't come to an agreement on Papley - sans Daniher tbh. It is a convenient story though for both Sydney and Essendon to put out there that no Daniher deal no Papley deal. I don't think Papley and Sydney are going to end well - just like I can't see Martin and GC or Daniher and Essendon becoming best buddies.

The faster the AFL grows up and fixes player movement like every other mature sport out there has - the better.

Making it difficult to move isn't necessarily a bad thing. This trade period especially puts the league on notice, might make clubs and players think and be more careful when offering and signing contracts. It's better than having a free for all circus carousel like the rubbish NBA model where players change teams like they change their t shirts. That + salary cap is what is preserving our game from losing its tradition and becoming a Moneyball. Playing for the jumper will become a thing of the past otherwise.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Some really good points here JaB. As much as we do put SOS on a pedestal, it is high risk to rely on a trade outside of your control to secure a player/s who has nominated your club....especially when it's Dodoro, who has a proven track record.

The Daniher trade falls over at the last moment, which the ripple effect means we get neither of the players we put all of our chips on. And any other players we may have had an interest in had already been snapped up by other clubs as a consequence.

I admired the St Kilda list manager (no idea who he is) that put a deadline on the Hill trade with Freo, and when they demanded overs, he said "**** you, we're pushing ahead anyway", and proceeded to trade their pick 6 with GWS to facilitate other trades....and ended up calling Freo's bluff, which they got Hill anyway....as well as all the other players they targeted.

Although it's easy for us to scream out from the cheap seats, in hindsight it did seem a high risk strategy, that all fell over disastrously at the eleventh hour....that part is unfortunately a fact.

James Gallagher.

 

[carlton2dabone]

When we pick up Martin for nothing at the PSD, suddenly our trade period looks much much better.