Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[Bostonian]

The only thing dumber than the winners and losers of trade week articles are the ones done straight after the draft, but I couldn't help myself....

Not surprised to see us dead last, but Cal "Bomber" Twomey has the Dons 4th with a 7.5/10 and Robbo equal 3rd.

Well as our list stands it hasn't gotten any better than what it was when the season ended.

We were in the bottom few teams at the end of the season and haven't done anything yet to improve that list to any great degree.

Not surprised we're ranked last.

 

[Stamos]

Whilst I'll never 'ITK bash' because;
1) it's the internet, and I never put much credence into much of what I read on the internet
2) I am genuinely entertained by their posts and the subsequent discussions it produces

I do agree with assessment that it comes across as more than just rumours by the way they are written.

There's subtle differences though. There is the genuine 'heard this from someone, make of it what you will' type like this...

Big fish in the works. May not get both paps and Martin if we land it. Elite midfielder. Don't ask who the player is.
Source: past multiple premiership player and inner sanctum member.

Nothing wrong here. Insinuates much, but really says little. No harm done.

then there's this type, a poster posting something they've heard along with their own assumption. Nothing definitive, no harm done..

There's something big brewing. I'm still confident it involves Gaff (or atleast to that caper of talent). That's what I'm hearing.

Then there are these types. Not a rumour as such, but a definitive statement. It's these ones that make it sound like gospel.

An agreement has been reached between all 3 clubs
Daniher to sydney
Papley to Carlton
2x first rounders to Ess
There will be an upgrade from a 3rd to a 2nd which we will ultimately land us Martin

Martin and Betts will be done
He will be BOUND BY BLUE .......(Papley)

It will happen. Just hang in there. (Martin)

Papley will also 100% get done.

Martin deal is done... agreed on a couple of options depending on what happens with Papley.

Unless Papley falls through, won't happen (Wines). Papley won't fall through.

Add Tom Papley and Jack Martin while your at it. Welcome to Carlton

These examples above are the types of 'rumours' that I believe, cause most of the angst amongst many here. They are written in a way that promotes them as facts, not rumours.

Now let me reiterate, I'm not having a go at any ITK posters, as they genuinely may be posting info they've heard, but maybe the lesson out of this is preface the posts with 'this is what I've heard' 'as it currently stands' etc.

Like a good joke, it's all in the delivery.

Agree to a point. In this case though, it very much seems that that is what the club believed. We had an in principle agreement with Gold Coast, and they reneged.
With Papley, maybe they thought it inconceivable that Essendon would knock back such a great deal, and given Sydney we’re offering our pick, thought we were good?

 

[slowhand clape]

I really hope whoever we take with pick 9 can find his own way without being compared to “what might have been”

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Have to agree. In trade period SOS is a great seller at a high price but in some circumstances you have to be prepared to pay the overs and get your man in. You look at the way Geelong deal and it is so strong, efficient & straightforward. Really disappointing our entire list management team didn’t have a Plan B & Plan C to just get a deal done for our two targeted players.
A big failure. Whilst the Papley deal might have been out of our hands in many ways it was bad night for our footy club. Two gun youngsters who would of really added to us are left stranded and we’re left holding our....

No, Papley is left stranded....and he can blame his current club for that who quite clearly didn’t want him to go and have the leverage of 3 more contracted years.

Martin will get to us, absolutely, put your house on it, take it to the bank, guaranteed. That’s a win, and will be seen as so when it happens.

Keep our draft hand and still get a very talented player, GC have essentially pissed one of their handouts down the toilet. *ing idiots

 

[KohPhi]

Agree to a point. In this case though, it very much seems that that is what the club believed. We had an in principle agreement with Gold Coast, and they reneged.
With Papley, maybe they thought it inconceivable that Essendon would knock back such a great deal, and given Sydney we’re offering our pick, thought we were good?

That may very well be true. But again, if I was an ITK, I wouldn't be posting like it was a done deal. Report the Intel, but do it in the light of how it stands. 'The club firmly believes' etc.

 

[Stamos]

The only thing dumber than the winners and losers of trade week articles are the ones done straight after the draft, but I couldn't help myself....

Not surprised to see us dead last, but Cal "Bomber" Twomey has the Dons 4th with a 7.5/10 and Robbo equal 3rd.

I know those muppets see through drug injected glasses, but this is next level. Essendon got offered big overs for an injury riddled player who wants out, and is a Free Agent next year, and the utter morons knock it back. This was there chance to make up for over-paying for Shiel. Surely they’re the biggest losers of trade week.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Papley was always unlikely in my opinion a 4 year contract at undes is to good a value for the swans, we will still trade for and get Martin

 

[GT619]

Rule 1. Never trade with Essendon again etc. obviously sos knows how dodo operates. At least we have strong hand next year with first second and third round intact plus 2021 first round

 

[teagueyubeauty]

If we get Martin effectively for free and pick a gun at 9, is it still a disaster?

Big, big win

 

[Blues_1864]

If Martin thinks it was our fault at all, then I guess we won’t be getting him. Our offer for him was overs. Gold Coast’s request was unreasonable, especially after they reneged on the agreed-to trade.

I really hope you’re not equating Martin to Kelly, or what they represent to each club.

No no, did not intend to imply equivalence of Martin and Kelly as players. Just saying that in some cases, thee is merit in paying (in my view) slight overs for an UNcontracted player, and Kelly is the only real analogue in this trade period.

In my view, Martin for a future second and a downgrade from 9 to 15 this year, was not an unreasonable offer, especially when the Suns had the option of walking away from the deal completely, thanks to their AFL package. West Coast paid slightly more than pick 1 for Kelly, but we couldn't pay slightly more than a future second for Martin. I guess the "slightly more" could be quantified as the points difference between 9 and 15 (in a draft we have never cared about anyway!).

Obviously there is a diversity of views. But I disagree with the idea that "Martin free in PSD = all good", because the industry is built on relationships.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Harley on SEN.

Essendon knocked back 5&9

Wowee

 

[slashin_velvet]

Essendon, Sydney and Carlton all losers in the no-daniher deal.

Essendon and Sydney have to retain players who don't want to be there and may get less for them at the end of next year if this has an impact on their performance or relationships. Carlton misses Papley who was a good fit. Reputation damage to all parties as the pickle on a s**t sandwich.

We can only hope that we feel the same way about this as we now do about missing out on Shiel. Was toys out the cot last year, but in hindsight, not a big loss.

 

[Stamos]

Harley on SEN.

Essendon knocked back 5&9

Wowee

Lol, and we’re the losers in trade week? Absolute muppets. Sydney fans must be so relieved.

 

[LanceRomance]

SOS has a great way of looking unlucky when we miss out

Shiel - play finals
Coniglio - happy at his club
Papley - 3 year trigger clause
Martin - goal posts moved on the final day

This doesn't seem to happen to sides like Geelong or Hawthorn

Stunning and brave

 

[I bleed Blue]

I honesty can't believe that.

Dodo going to lose Danhier for half of that next year after keeping him for a disgruntled year.

Going to blow up in * face

 

[kickballfoot]

Would love to throw a life line to Harley Bennell pending medical report on his calf’s.
Has been at 2 s**t shows of clubs so far and with the right people/culture could turn his life around and be a super player and only cost a list spot.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Cannot reconcile Craig Cameron's comments.

He said they needed more from us than a future 2nd and 3rd because they held a strong future draft hand....but then accepted a future 2nd and future 4th from a team expected to finish higher (therefore both lower picks)....

Logic would dictate to trade with us for the future 2nd and 3rd and play hardball with Ah Chee who was less chance of being able to walk to Brisbane in the PSD being the best move for GC. The mind boggles.

 

[Stamos]

No no, did not intend to imply equivalence of Martin and Kelly as players. Just saying that in some cases, thee is merit in paying (in my view) slight overs for an UNcontracted player, and Kelly is the only real analogue in this trade period.

In my view, Martin for a future second and a downgrade from 9 to 15 this year, was not an unreasonable offer, especially when the Suns had the option of walking away from the deal completely, thanks to their AFL package. West Coast paid slightly more than pick 1 for Kelly, but we couldn't pay slightly more than a future second for Martin. I guess the "slightly more" could be quantified as the points difference between 9 and 15 (in a draft we have never cared about anyway!).

Obviously there is a diversity of views. But I disagree with the idea that "Martin free in PSD = all good", because the industry is built on relationships.

I think our offer was already overs, and I wouldn’t have been happy if we did that deal for Martin. And I think a lot of supporters would have been considerably less happy.

There are still some complaining about our Setterfield deal.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Harley on SEN.

Essendon knocked back 5&9

Wowee

*ing idiots....I hope they make finals and he goes as a free agent and they end up with pick 14+ instead post all of the NGA/FS picks

 

[I bleed Blue]

Lol, and we’re the losers in trade week? Absolute muppets. Sydney fans must be so relieved.

Extrodinary.

Essendon mates i spoke with would have jumped at 5 and 9.

Take 2 top 10 picks to the draft (or offer them around if you do the deal early enough) then pick up someone like Jenkins for next to nothing to do the job until they can target someone else.

Missed their chance to cash in big time.

 

[Stamos]

Funk my view:

Both clubs included next year’s Carlton second in their trades. We included a third Vs their 6 pick downgrade. On points the difference in offers is non existent.

Therefore I don’t think any characterisation of GC offer as ‘unreasonable’ compared to ours is fair. They left us a first rounder and were giving us Martin. May not have been our preference but I think the cold light of day will show it’s ridiculous these two clubs couldn’t sort that after 2 weeks. Truly ridiculous.

How about we swapped next year’s our first with their 11 and throw in a second rounder? How about their trade and swap thirds back in our favour to sweeten? How about work with them over the two weeks to move up the 15 slightly with another club?

It’s just not good work by either club to have gotten this close and not sorted it.

Sometimes we put too much relevance on the points. There might be a big difference in getting who we want at #9, compared to #16, so you can’t just look at it as the points differential. Our future 2nd by itself should have been enough. Throwing in a 3rd was already decent overs for an out of contract player.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Whilst I'll never 'ITK bash' because;
1) it's the internet, and I never put much credence into much of what I read on the internet
2) I am genuinely entertained by their posts and the subsequent discussions it produces

I do agree with assessment that it comes across as more than just rumours by the way they are written.

There's subtle differences though. There is the genuine 'heard this from someone, make of it what you will' type like this...

Big fish in the works. May not get both paps and Martin if we land it. Elite midfielder. Don't ask who the player is.
Source: past multiple premiership player and inner sanctum member.

Nothing wrong here. Insinuates much, but really says little. No harm done.

then there's this type, a poster posting something they've heard along with their own assumption. Nothing definitive, no harm done..

There's something big brewing. I'm still confident it involves Gaff (or atleast to that caper of talent). That's what I'm hearing.

Then there are these types. Not a rumour as such, but a definitive statement. It's these ones that make it sound like gospel.

An agreement has been reached between all 3 clubs
Daniher to sydney
Papley to Carlton
2x first rounders to Ess
There will be an upgrade from a 3rd to a 2nd which we will ultimately land us Martin

Martin and Betts will be done
He will be BOUND BY BLUE .......(Papley)

It will happen. Just hang in there. (Martin)

Papley will also 100% get done.

Martin deal is done... agreed on a couple of options depending on what happens with Papley.

Unless Papley falls through, won't happen (Wines). Papley won't fall through.

Add Tom Papley and Jack Martin while your at it. Welcome to Carlton

These examples above are the types of 'rumours' that I believe, cause most of the angst amongst many here. They are written in a way that promotes them as facts, not rumours.

Now let me reiterate, I'm not having a go at any ITK posters, as they genuinely may be posting info they've heard, but maybe the lesson out of this is preface the posts with 'this is what I've heard' 'as it currently stands' etc.

Like a good joke, it's all in the delivery.

Now can we have the GIF version of yesterday?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I really appreciate the conversation the ITK posters create on this thread and hope they continue to post their bluemours. Don't like the 'class system' here where some posters are ridiculed, whilst others are treated like demigods. Respond to the post and ignore the avatar.

 

[FRUMPY]

The rubbish i’m Reading here seriously.
If SOS name wasn’t SOS most -99% - would be livid with the outcome.

the media and wider football public will not be kind tomorrow and it will all be fair criticism.

2 players that would have made a massive difference to our team and what’s the bet that all it would have taken was pick 9 for Papley in isolation and a 6 pick downgrade for Martin (if the future second was a requirement also I would have done it in a heartbeat) ??

We can all say what we want - we turned down the possibility of getting Ollie wines into the club -
And we still hold the picks that would have got that deal done as well. Fail an absolute miserable fail. Banked cap space for nothing!

SOS has been too stubborn here ..sometimes you just need to pay more than you want ... when you’ve got the currency especially!

FMD some people are as thick as bricks. Papley & Wines were not available to trade by their clubs.

The club didn't bend over to get Martin when in all likelihood we get him in the PSD - good on them

 

[Blue Chip Pass]

So is everyone over there little tanty's now... finished tossing the toys out of the pram?

Good... SOS has responded well to what was basically an attempted strong arm effort from GC17, and by extension the AFL, to hand over another top 10 pick to good old Gold Coast.

SOS offered up a number of good deals to GC17, who was apparently under instructions from the AFL to be harder at the negotiating table. But it helps to be tough at the negotiating table when you are in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they were trying to be tough negotiators from a position of weakness. Martin is uncontracted and will now be pi**ed off with GC17 because of the stupid stance that they took... especially after trading Ah Chee for two 2020 picks... I'm sure you all know which rounds they are in. SOS looked at their final offer and told them to pound sand before walking out of the room laughing at their weak efforts.

Mind you, he came across as a bit perturbed with both GC17's list manager and that stupid twat from * who basically wasted the whole trade period for us and pretty much for Shitney. Mind you, he did screw Dodoro over when he got pick 57 and 70 for Phillips and 61 and 72. s**t, I would have taken pick 70 on it's own for Phillips after doing a Grigg on us.

As for the deal with Shitney for Papley, it was always going to be dependent on the Daniher trade and when that collapsed, Shitney no longer needed pick 9 so the Papley deal died in the arse. What sort of deadshit a-hole wants 2 first round picks for a guy who has hardly got on the field in the last 2 years... oh that's right... it's Dodoro. I'm certain that the guy cooks his own bread at home every day... a bit of a master baker if you will.

Now, I've heard a whole lot of "what about plan B" on Farcebook and on Twitter... we should have taken Butler... or Cutler... why didn't we look at some other small forward? Scak SOS... this has been a failure of a trade period!

Why?

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

There is a reason why all 4 of those guys went for late picks and played bugger all games this year... they are not A grade small forwards.

Eddie had a poor year by his standards... he played 21 games and kicked 37 goals. If we want an experienced depth small forward... we could always pick up Jeffy as a DFA.

Now... I don't know about you lot, but I am actually pretty happy that we walked out of the trade period with a good backup to Kreuzer for bugger all, and we also got back Eddie for 12 months to act as a player/mentor. I'm also happy that GC17 have managed to screw themselves with Martin because he is out of contract and will walk into the PSD and probably as for a 12 month 1.2 million dollar contract. Out of GC17, the Dees and us... Carlton are the only team that can afford that sort of contract. I'm not saying that we would be so crass as to tamper with the PSD and get Martin to screw his old club... but fu** it... they have 4 top 20 picks. If they can't pick up some serious talent with that lot, they need to offer SOS 2 million a year to go to the Gold Coast for 3 years and rebuild their entire list.

Well articulated. Thank you Dramoth for bringing a little bit of perspective to our trading situation.
I haven't read thru all the pages of ranting BS. Just puts me off. Like a bunch a school kids who missed out on the fairy floss. I was just as keen to get Papley & Martin, but only if it was a good deal. After hearing SOS interview, I totally understand the predicament we were in. No different to when Adelaide wanted Gibbs first time round.
Let's not forget we have pick 9 to pick up a special young talent.
I was pissed off at first, but can now appreciate we can still do some good things through PSD and Free Agency.
We made a stand, to not get list cloggers. Period.
Bad luck SOS, but good on you for not trading for the sake of trading.
Everyone please behave, like civilised human beings. We all barack for the same side FFS.
And thankyou to all the ITK's. At the end of day, you share the best information available at the time.
Please don't let the childish brats put you off. 99% of us are very grateful.
Welcome to the Blues Betts & Pittonet.