Bluemour Melting Pot XXII

[FRUMPY]

All this comes down to how the individual chooses to define "A Grade".

I think you could easily make an argument for Weitering as an A-grade key defender. He'll get beat sometimes, but they all do. Can be relied on to blanket an opponent most weeks and set up some rebound.

Plowman is in the frame as well, by position. Similar to Weiters, every now and then an opponent will get ahold of him, but he's typically a consistent stopper who can do a little the other way.

Ed Curnow in a similar vein, has become a little more offensive as well, but if you want to play a defensive mid he's easily one of the top few in the league.

I think you'd be hard pressed to leave Murphy out as well. He's not in the top echelon, but comfortably in that next bracket down.

And on the same note, Simpson. He's coming to the end, so I don't know if this statement holds true in 3-6 months, but he's absolutely one of the better small defenders in the comp. Not necessarily elite, but I doubt there's a team in the comp that wouldn't play him.

Cripps, Docherty (if fit) = A+
Weitering, Plowman, Curnow, Murphy, Simpson = A

I think that highlights our main problem, though - most of our top performers are defensive players. Unsure as to whether Betts fits into this category at present, but if the return home sits well he could.

Need one or two to step up forward of centre and show consistency of performance. And certainly another couple in the midfield group need to do the same (and will).

By the start of next year, I'd be hoping to class:

Cripps, Docherty, Weiters as A+
Plowman, Curnow, SPS, Walsh and Setters as A
With a handful producing occasional A-grade performances but needing to do so consistently (Charlie, McKay, Gov, Martin, Cunners, Dow etc.)

All in all it doesnt matter what grade you name players, you win a flag as a team. Just need 22 consistent performers week in week out. I wouldnt care if Cripps had a f grade game on grand final day and Finbar had an out of the box game and was the difference.

 

[Monkey King]

I've been here for 20 years and have always been a ray of sunshine, positive poster, diplomatic, and battling negative agendas more than anybody ... despite all the credits I feel like I've earned and the benefit of the doubt I feel like I deserve, I have to say this one concern I have expressed re the events of December last year, I'm feeling a little bullied and it does feel a little clique-like.

Valid points ODN.

Questions over how recruitment is being run at the club were evoked by the club's own actions, not by posters. Analysing the ongoing implications of all that went down in Dec is far from having a "negative agenda".

 

[Blue__Balls]

All in all it doesnt matter what grade you name players, you win a flag as a team. Just need 22 consistent performers week in week out. I wouldnt care if Cripps had a f grade game on grand final day and Finbar had an out of the box game and was the difference.

Of course, performance on the day trumps any arbitrary grading scale.

But if we're discussing a school of thought that a successful team typically requires "7-8 A Grade players", then the yardstick for that grading matters to the discussion.

I, personally, would be comfortable labeling a player A Grade if they are performing to a high standard in their position on a consistent basis (say, 80% of the time or more). That leaves a tier above (A+) for the truly elite, and a fair rating of B for players who are either talented but inconsistent, or consistently "average".

 

[Doro]

All in all it doesnt matter what grade you name players, you win a flag as a team. Just need 22 consistent performers week in week out. I wouldnt care if Cripps had a f grade game on grand final day and Finbar had an out of the box game and was the difference.

"The winner of the Norm Smith Medal, from Carlton number 38- Finnnnbbaarr O'Dwyer.. ".

 

[FRUMPY]

"The winner of the Norm Smith Medal, from Carlton number 38- Finnnnbbaarr O'Dwyer.. ".

Nice ring to it - Marlion Picket style.

 

[DangerousD]

He definitely coached Brandon Ellis at Calder in 2011. Liddle even says that himself. He coached at Vic Metro some time after that for a few seasons as well. He was a customer officer at Richmond until 2 years before he came to us. Just one of a team selling memberships and doing other things. No doubt he was moonlighting by dabbling in assistant coaching duties elsewhere.

I've seen references to coaching at Calder for 4 years and others saying 8 years. Callum Moore was at Calder from at least 2012 at Under 16 level (born 1996). There is a very good chance if Liddle was there in 2011, he was involved somewhere along the line in 2012.

No issue or no disagreement with your first paragraph.

When you say Moore was at Calder from at least 2012 also is not entirely true, he quit football to focus on basketball as a 16 year old, returning in 2014 for half a season.

 

[spry]

Exactly what I've heard.

MLG allowed the football department to be run with autocracy and ofcourse an incoming professional CEO, the purveyor of corporate governance in any business, is not going to allow that to continue.

A collaborative approach to list management, is by no means trying to pull the List Manager's feet out from underneath him. Recruitment decisions should always be made collaboratively and from different viewpoints. We've made the mistake previously of allowing Hughes and Rogers to make decisions one-out, and that ended up horrendously for our club.

We finally, finallllly, have a professional CEO that is running our club like a proper business, and people want him burned at the stake for it. It's insane

If you want somebody to blame, look towards MLG who allowed the situation to fester for >12 months.

Good points. It’s good to have accountability, and I feel in the past that was needed, but I feel as if we had a great dictator in SOS. A dictator with a bloody good record. I think it’s Plato that says democracy is safer, but a republic with a dictator/just king has a higher ceiling/ greater capacity.

I feel like we’ve lost this ceiling for safety with the accountability system. But, the proof will be in the pudding I guess.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I should add that personally I have no issue with SOS being a benevalent dictator and backing his opinion. That is how I run my business - listen to all views but ultimately I make the final call.

I remember the now ex-Apple design guy who was wildly successful for over 10 years for them. Often consultants and others would want to go in a different direction - he made the final call and it turned out very well.

Sometimes one person is actually smarter than everyone else in the room. I personally think SOS is that person

There are literally hundreds of examples for the opposite though. SOS hasn’t done anything to suggest that he is that much smarter then anybody else. Above average, I very much think so but so far from some sort of footy genius who doesn’t need to listen that it’s just silly.

 

[Arr0w]

Exactly what I've heard.

MLG allowed the football department to be run with autocracy and ofcourse an incoming professional CEO, the purveyor of corporate governance in any business, is not going to allow that to continue.

A collaborative approach to list management, is by no means trying to pull the List Manager's feet out from underneath him. Recruitment decisions should always be made collaboratively and from different viewpoints. We've made the mistake previously of allowing Hughes and Rogers to make decisions one-out, and that ended up horrendously for our club.

We finally, finallllly, have a professional CEO that is running our club like a proper business, and people want him burned at the stake for it. It's insane

If you want somebody to blame, look towards MLG who allowed the situation to fester for >12 months.

We have a professional CEO? What makes him a professional CEO? Prior to this gig he was a CCO = Chief Customer Officer

Unless I missed something when has he ever held a similar position?

As for MLG, if this issue was festering from mid last year, as rumoured, surely a professional president would consider all aspects, especially timing before making a change? I mean how many list managers have been replaced mid year?

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

I love Liddle and hope he is part of our club for many years.

 

[HARKER]

Exactly what I've heard.

MLG allowed the football department to be run with autocracy and ofcourse an incoming professional CEO, the purveyor of corporate governance in any business, is not going to allow that to continue.

A collaborative approach to list management, is by no means trying to pull the List Manager's feet out from underneath him. Recruitment decisions should always be made collaborativively and from different viewpoints. We've made the mistake previously of allowing Hughes and Rogers to make decisions one-out, and that ended up horrendously for our club.

We finally, finallllly, have a professional CEO that is running our club like a proper business, and people want him burned at the stake for it. It's insane

If you want somebody to blame, look towards MLG who allowed the situation to fester for >12 months.

I agree with you, not because it suits some 'agenda' but because this has shown up all too often to not stick out like the proverbial.

The President has played hot potato with the keys to the city and not wanted to take ownership for the administering of proper governance. It's clear to me that he just doesn't have interpersonal skills and that's a very much needed skill in the football industry and especially so, of you're going to be spending a lot of time 'around the club' Being too attached to 'friends' as a President, also doesn't bode well for what's best for the whole.

I believe I was the first one to express concerns about this. Do I strike you as someone who likes to run my own petty agenda, or are you looking for petty agendas to pounce on?
I've been here for 20 years and have always been a ray of sunshine, positive poster, diplomatic, and battling negative agendas more than anybody. I've been adamant that there are no cliques on this board, at least none the mods are involved in. Tell you what though, despite all the credits I feel like I've earned and the benefit of the doubt I feel like I deserve, I have to say this one concern I have expressed re the events of December last year, I'm feeling a little bullied and it does feel a little clique-like.

If people didn't pounce, that little post where I expressed a slight concern .... would have faded away without further comment from me. But they did pounce and I've been forced to defend my opinion.

You've shown yourself to be very practical over your tenure here and you have every right to defend your opinion....
Is it defending though or just the want to open up the dialogue more broadly. It may seem as though posters are fighting over an issue, just to put their flag in the ground, but there's nothing wrong with that if a thought out argument/idea presents.

Are you sure about that though? I think I got banned for putting the spotlight on just this, some time ago.

 

[cookie monster]

I agree with you, not because it suits some 'agenda' but because this has shown up all too often to not stick out like the proverbial.

The President has played hot potato with the keys to the city and not wanted to take ownership for the administering of proper governance. It's clear to me that he just doesn't have interpersonal skills and that's a very much needed skill in the football industry and especially so, of you're going to be spending a lot of time 'around the club' Being too attached to 'friends' as a President, also doesn't bode well for what's best for the whole.

Unfortunately a business operator who runs a family business, where he inherited his father's money, naturally will not be a bastion of governance.

Enter Luke Sayers....

 

[HARKER]

Unfortunately a business operator who runs a family business, where he inherited his father's money, naturally will not be a bastion of governance.

Enter Luke Sayers....

Just between you and me.....the sooner the better.

 

[cookie monster]

We have a professional CEO? What makes him a professional CEO? Prior to this gig he was a CCO = Chief Customer Officer

Unless I missed something when has he ever held a similar position?

As for MLG, if this issue was festering from mid last year, as rumoured, surely a professional president would consider all aspects, especially timing before making a change? I mean how many list managers have been replaced mid year?

On exposed evidence:

• Record membership growth in the club's history, and the across the competition
• Biggest increase in crowd numbers year on year in the competition
• Best profit numbers in since early 2010s - paying down out historical debt to record lows since it was incurred
• Makes hard decisions to the club's benefit, ie. Sacking Bolton
• Signs biggest endorsement deal in AFL history

Trigg & Swann tried their best over the last decade to do what Liddle has managed to do in the last 24 months - but they didn't even come close.

As for the intangible stuff, I suppose you just have to be a little closer to the club to see that.

MLG has been at the helm for what, 7 years now? The change of CEO is the only positional variable here leading to this change. It's hard to credit him and/or his board for this resurgence when many of them have been there since the early 2010s

 

[Stamos]

On exposed evidence:

• Record membership growth in the club's history, and the across the competition
• Biggest increase in crowd numbers year on year in the competition
• Best profit numbers in since early 2010s - paying down out historical debt to record lows since it was incurred
• Makes hard decisions to the club's benefit, ie. Sacking Bolton
• Signs biggest endorsement deal in AFL history

Trigg & Swann tried their best over the last decade to do what Liddle has managed to do in the last 24 months - but they didn't even come close.

As for the intangible stuff, I suppose you just have to be a little closer to the club to see that.

MLG has been at the helm for what, 7 years now? The change of CEO is the only positional variable here leading to this change. It's hard to credit him and/or his board for this resurgence when many of them have been there since the early 2010s

It's ludicrous to pin all our off-field success on the CEO who's been there 2 years, and give none of the credit to the President and the board.
They just got lucky on the CEO appointment, hey?

 

[cookie monster]

Just between you and me.....the sooner the better.

For me, it's the last piece of the "administrative puzzle" that needs to be found before we rise back to the top.

 

[Doro]

On exposed evidence:

• Record membership growth in the club's history, and the across the competition
• Biggest increase in crowd numbers year on year in the competition
• Best profit numbers in since early 2010s - paying down out historical debt to record lows since it was incurred
• Makes hard decisions to the club's benefit, ie. Sacking Bolton
• Signs biggest endorsement deal in AFL history

Trigg & Swann tried their best over the last decade to do what Liddle has managed to do in the last 24 months - but they didn't even come close.

As for the intangible stuff, I suppose you just have to be a little closer to the club to see that.

MLG has been at the helm for what, 7 years now? The change of CEO is the only positional variable here leading to this change. It's hard to credit him and/or his board for this resurgence when many of them have been there since the early 2010s

You have to consider what he inherited when he took the job on half way through 2014. Worst playing list in the league and paying maximum cap for the privilege. Worst recruiting and list management. Stagnant membership. Unused stadium. The improvement began at the same time he did.

 

[Arr0w]

On exposed evidence:

• Record membership growth in the club's history, and the across the competition
• Biggest increase in crowd numbers year on year in the competition
• Best profit numbers in since early 2010s - paying down out historical debt to record lows since it was incurred
• Makes hard decisions to the club's benefit, ie. Sacking Bolton
• Signs biggest endorsement deal in AFL history

Trigg & Swann tried their best over the last decade to do what Liddle has managed to do in the last 24 months - but they didn't even come close.

As for the intangible stuff, I suppose you just have to be a little closer to the club to see that.

MLG has been at the helm for what, 7 years now? The change of CEO is the only positional variable here leading to this change. It's hard to credit him and/or his board for this resurgence when many of them have been there since the early 2010s

Time will tell with Liddle, as prior to this role, his strengths have been within marketing. The next 18 months will be interesting.

People shouldn't underestimate the masses, the vast majority of supporters were starting to be swayed to becoming members, again, based on the tough/rightful decision of a rebuild, credit to Liddle and his team to capitalize

Tigers aren't declining, so sustained success always has a a positive effect, no matter the marketing and or ther person/s delivering the message

MLG/Board were the ones that finally had the strength to call a rebuild, that shouldn't be underestimated either, especially being Carlton

 

[Stamos]

You have to consider what he inherited when he took the job on half way through 2014. Worst playing list in the league and paying maximum cap for the privilege. Worst recruiting and list management. Stagnant membership. Unused stadium. The improvement began at the same time he did.

Brought in SOS for a full rebuild. By far the biggest decision for our turn around.

 

[cookie monster]

Time will tell with Liddle, as prior to this role, his strengths have been within marketing. The next 18 months will be interesting.

People shouldn't underestimate the masses, the vast majority of supporters were starting to be swayed to becoming members, again, based on the tough/rightful decision of a rebuild, credit to Liddle and his team to capitalize

Tigers aren't declining, so sustained success always has a a positive effect, no matter the marketing and or ther person/s delivering the message

MLG/Board were the ones that finally had the strength to call a rebuild, that shouldn't be underestimated either, especially being Carlton

You're overstating the difficulty of that decision

What else were we going to do with that piece of s**t list?

It was really the only decision available to them at the time

 

[FRUMPY]

Anyway what is a small forward?

 

[CJMB]

Anyway what is a small forward?

...and does height matter? Does one paced mean slow? Should we favour the younger or more experienced players? How old is too old? Does Cripps need defending? Are flankers and mids interchangeable? Do we pick a team with the most talented/able players or exclusively by position? Are people entitled to attack ITKs because they didn't lay out the entire trade period with 100% accuracy? By definition, can shorts be not short? What's worse: cheese puns or barrages of GIFs?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You've shown yourself to be very practical over your tenure here and you have every right to defend your opinion....
Is it defending though or just the want to open up the dialogue more broadly. It may seem as though posters are fighting over an issue, just to put their flag in the ground, but there's nothing wrong with that if a thought out argument/idea presents.

Are you sure about that though? I think I got banned for putting the spotlight on just this, some time ago.

I am defending an opinion I believe in. I also am happy to open up dialogue more broadly and work with people to communicate different ideas in a more palatable way so we don't lose discussion.

Harks, your spotlight was actively undermining moderators ... I still disagree with anyone who does this.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

In a Q&A on the club's website, shortly after joining our club, he describes being midfield coach at the Cannons for 2 "extremely rewarding Premiership seasons". The Cannons last 2 premierships were won in 2009 & 2010. This would tally with him being employed at Punt Rd from 2010 onwards.

He may have coached the Vic Metro midfield beyond this, but it would be really stretching it to suggest he was acquainted with a 16 year old Callum Moore at the Cannons.

He was at Calder for more than 2 years. He was obviously talking about premiership years only.

Ellis was at Calder in 2011 and Liddle said outright he coached Ellis at Calder.

 

[CJMB]

...and does height matter? Does one paced mean slow? Should we favour the younger or more experienced players? How old is too old? Does Cripps need defending? Are flankers and mids interchangeable? Do we pick a team with the most talented/able players or exclusively by position? Are people entitled to attack ITKs because they didn't lay out the entire trade period with 100% accuracy? By definition, can shorts be not short? What's worse: cheese puns or barrages of GIFs?

...and if ferrisb is being serious is it really ferrisb ?!...