Bluemour Melting Pot XXIII

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blue healer

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 25, 2010
5,571
7,968
wagga wagga
AFL Club
Carlton
Neither do I.

Just, people are allowed to be skeptical and to express it, even if it makes supposed sources of information uncomfortable.
Voicing scepticism is fine and, like disagreement, makes the board what it is but too often it is expressed in an overstated antagonistic way which, IMO, has driven a lot of posters from this forum.

I've often gotten into discussions I neither want nor need because some of those attacks even offend me as a neutral.
 

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DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2015
7,177
9,858
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal
I see your point and what your getting at, but to say its a cross when you dont have the slightest idea of what is actually going on is a bit much.
Something is obviously different, top 5 players in the comp don’t just fall off a cliff. If it’s injuries, then the club is at fault for not managing him better, either by missing games or playing more forward, if it’s off field issues, the club needs to take part blame for not giving Patty time off to deal with them, if it’s gamelan then Teague needs to take responsibility for Turing a top 5 player into a 50-100 player.

The alternative is Cripps just struggled with shorter quarters or is rapidly declining, I would much prefer it was the top paragraph.

Of course I don’t know for sure, just my thoughts.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
5,780
11,850
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
merrett would be very nice but no way Essendon would give him up. Already a shallow midfield and Dodo would genuinely want something like McKay + 2 first rounders. would be a waste of time to deal with the fool.

Williams seems very gettable and Saad being out of contract helps us out a lot.

I assume if we land Saad that gives us the option to push Williams to the middle.

I might be in the minority but I reckon Saad adds more for us vs. Williams? We desperately need line breaking speed out of the back line.
 

Abyss

Senior List
Jan 30, 2017
166
389
AFL Club
Carlton
With respect, the condition of OCD can manifest in many ways and the triggers vary by person. Cripps returning to Melbourne and sacrificing his footy this year could have done more harm than good if it resulted in negative press about both him and his relationship. You've got to consider the amount of vitriol his partner could receive it we lost games Cripps sat out to come to Melbourne.

I know we'd like to think most people would be respectful, but we've also seen the racist bullshit players like Eddie continue to cop. It's not a knock against the club unless we know he has't been given support and freedom to act in the way that suits him and his family.
It would have been a huge factor. Crippa has a protective and inclusive mentality, add that to the isolation and the fact that your closest 'team member' isnt doing well. Border restrictions in this country are unprecedented. In a normal year you could fly home for a few days and lend that support. Maybe Stocker had similar issues to try and deal with.
When you add elite performance targets, contracted recovery times into the deal, it isnt something that would have easy solutions or strategies to implement or plan for.
Think of late nights on the phone, constantly moving base. It would have been difficult for someone that had no external stressors.
Team management this year would have been covering new ground in so many areas. Blaming anyone in management would be a tough call.
Did CFC do it well? You would have to base that against how the other teams managed all those factors.
 
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Gavstar

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2011
4,291
5,919
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Lakers, Longhorns
Is it the managers that leak all this info to the press in order to push players prices up or rival clubs that aren’t interested to achieve the same?

Why don’t we just leak that we are targeting very elite midfielder under 25 no matter if they are in contract out of contract or FA? Then everyone’s price goes up?
 

DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2015
7,177
9,858
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal
With respect, the condition of OCD can manifest in many ways and the triggers vary by person. Cripps returning to Melbourne and sacrificing his footy this year could have done more harm than good if it resulted in negative press about both him and his relationship. You've got to consider the amount of vitriol his partner could receive it we lost games Cripps sat out to come to Melbourne.

I know we'd like to think most people would be respectful, but we've also seen the racist bullshit players like Eddie continue to cop. It's not a knock against the club unless we know he has't been given support and freedom to act in the way that suits him and his family.
Good points, as far as blaming injuries goes, I don’t think you can blame injuries without the club looking amateur, no games off, no games resting forward.

Off field issues can have a huge affect and I hadn’t thought of your points before, I more so meant a game or two off to just have a break, see family, friends, recharge mentally or support his partner.
 

KohPhi

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 24, 2015
20,472
68,893
AFL Club
Carlton
So I've started compiling 'the list' early doors. Feel free to add.

Merret
Wines
Williams
Kelly
Saad
Oliver
Witherden
Coniglio
Papley
Wright
Viney
Graham
Narkle
B.Crouch - added
Isaac Smith - added
Rory Atkins - added

Looking forward to increasing it when the inevitable 'we should chase Bontompelli' post arrives.. 😆
 
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slashin_velvet

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 5, 2011
7,259
12,343
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Dallas Cowboys, STL Blues
Good points, as far as blaming injuries goes, I don’t think you can blame injuries without the club looking amateur, no games off, no games resting forward.

Off field issues can have a huge affect and I hadn’t thought of your points before, I more so meant a game or two off to just have a break, see family, friends, recharge mentally or support his partner.
In a normal year, I have no doubt he would have had the chance to do that. Unfortunately with quarantine plus bunched up games, a week in Melbourne plus a 14 day quarantine could have had him missing 3-4 games in a row.
 

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Abyss

Senior List
Jan 30, 2017
166
389
AFL Club
Carlton
Is it the managers that leak all this info to the press in order to push players prices up or rival clubs that aren’t interested to achieve the same?

Why don’t we just leak that we are targeting very elite midfielder under 25 no matter if they are in contract out of contract or FA? Then everyone’s price goes up?
 

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Bryce Bubbles

Senior List
Jun 4, 2018
191
374
AFL Club
Carlton
From Tom Morris' blog on Fox Footy... I wonder if the overzealous Essendon supporter is actually Adrian Dodoro (certainly thinks like him):
"do you reckon carlton would be willing to trade patrick cripps for Adam Saad and Jordan Ridley? I'm an essnedon man and reckon cripps would be worth both of those plus carlton probably dont want crippa anymore because he has had a bad year i reckon we all win there but especially essendon"
Give us Merret, Saad, Ridley and McGrath...that should do it, plus throw Dylan - we need a good water boy
 

Bluebag13

Club Legend
Jul 30, 2017
1,125
2,663
AFL Club
Carlton
Something is obviously different, top 5 players in the comp don’t just fall off a cliff. If it’s injuries, then the club is at fault for not managing him better, either by missing games or playing more forward, if it’s off field issues, the club needs to take part blame for not giving Patty time off to deal with them, if it’s gamelan then Teague needs to take responsibility for Turing a top 5 player into a 50-100 player.

The alternative is Cripps just struggled with shorter quarters or is rapidly declining, I would much prefer it was the top paragraph.

Of course I don’t know for sure, just my thoughts.
Probably should have mentioned i think there is nothing wrong with questioning, and as supporters especially if you are a member we have a responsibility to.
But definitive statements and concrete views without knowing the full picture seem unjustified.

Not sure about fall of a cliff, certainly hasnt been at his best but still in the top group for clearances and contested possessions.
It did seem like he was playing injured though
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
22,690
59,153
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
Zach Merrett being traded to Carlton would actually blow my mind. Legit have never thought it could possibly happen.

If it does, I'm going to write a 2,000 word essay on this history of big trades between Carlton and Essendon and how monumental a Merret trade would be.

Somebody hold me to it if it happens.
Bookmarked for you mate
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
9,264
28,439
AFL Club
Carlton
Come on mate, you tell me one player who wants to remain the captain of their club that would be fine with being demoted...
And why would it be a poor reflection on a player who was a club captain, and then lost the captaincy via (I believe) a player/coach vote, to consider a fresh start at another club?

Also. GARRY LYON! The bloke torches his old club twice a week. Uses his "connection" to lend weight to his overblown headline chasing rants.

Which seems more likely?

- Viney was so incensed at losing the captaincy (but still being voted vice captain) that he pre-emptively spat the dummy and decided to jump ship at the end of the year (after first playing a really good season of footy).

- Viney was asked about losing the captaincy, said he was "disappointed" (among other comments), and Lyon latched onto an opportunity to get his name in some headlines.

On top of that - has Lyon even said what Elmer is saying he said?

I can find quotes from Tim Watson about Viney being "disappointed", which seem to stem from comments Simon Goodwin made at the time of the captaincy announcement. Lyon's response was:

“I don’t know what’s going through his mind but I know he’s appreciated, loved, wanted and respected and I’d be shattered if he left from a Melbourne point of view,” he added.

“I’m hoping they’re doing everything they can to keep him.
While we're at it, here are some other little quotes from Viney:

"Max and I go about it in quite different ways … and the club decided that Max's leadership style was the way they wanted to go for the 2020 season," Viney told AFL.com.au. "I understood that quite clearly and was happy to play my role to take the club forward.

"My No.1 goal has always been to play my role. For the last few seasons, that was to be a co-captain alongside Nathan. This year it's to be vice-captain, so that's all I've really ever been focused on. It is what it is and it doesn't really change how I go about my business or my leadership."
"I did seek feedback and obviously am always looking to better myself as a player and a leader; just to get a bit of a feel for the direction the club wanted to go in," Viney said.

"It obviously happened pretty close to the season, before this (season shutdown) happened, so I'm still in the process of getting that feedback."
And this from Gawn:

“I caught up for brekkie (with Viney) this morning just at a local café,” Gawn said.

“Me and Jack have a great relationship and I remember two years ago when he got voted as captain he pointed me out and said, ‘It’s going to be me and you who take this club forward’.

“I said the same thing to him this morning. It’s going to be me and him who keep taking this club forward. Obviously we’re going to need some help. It’s pretty clear in my mind that nothing really changes really. Jack continues doing what he’s doing and I continue doing what I’m doing.”
Sources:



 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
22,690
59,153
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
So I've started compiling 'the list' early doors. Feel free to add.

Merret
Wines
Williams
Kelly
Saad
Oliver
Witherden
Coniglio
Papley
Wright
Viney
Graham
Narkle

Looking forward to increasing it when the inevitable 'we should chase Bontompelli' post arrives.. 😆
I would put Papley back on the list
 

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