Bluemour Melting Pot XXVIII

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Blue__Balls

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Aug 22, 2014
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What to do? Kennedy is on the rookie list, Cunners still hasn’t cemented himself in the team, Stocker has clear deficiencies and the other two are two years younger.

Cerra plays every week, last year averaging 17 disposals, he’s well ahead of all those players you mentioned.
Comes down to cost, and whether we can get anything for one or more of those players he'd push further down the list.

What's he worth? Mid or late first? He's not an already-elite mid demanding multiple first rounders or a top 5 pick, that's for sure.

If we could do it for our first rounder and steak knives, then flip Dow to NM for later first which could then be used in the draft on a KPD...it's probably good horse trading.
 

Metalcrusher

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Comes down to cost, and whether we can get anything for one or more of those players he'd push further down the list.

What's he worth? Mid or late first? He's not an already-elite mid demanding multiple first rounders or a top 5 pick, that's for sure.

If we could do it for our first rounder and steak knives, then flip Dow to NM for later first which could then be used in the draft on a KPD...it's probably good horse trading.
dow a late first ........ hmmmm I don’t think so.
 

Blue__Balls

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dow a late first ........ hmmmm I don’t think so.
I think NM would do it, depending on what else was on their plate.

Would probably look similar to our trade for Setterfield, which was a future (early) second rounder and a late swap for a young bloke we liked who was coming off an ACL.

They're in rebuild mode, so a former Pick 3 with 50-ish games to his name, struggling a little for on-ball minutes and maybe needing a fresh start. It's not a sure thing, but if it was they'd be paying a hell of a lot more. It'd just be a high-reward roll of the dice on a player who could actually slot in from day one.
 

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Gethelred

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May 1, 2016
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dow a late first ........ hmmmm I don’t think so.
We'd be fortunate to get a second for him, and I say that as someone who thinks he'll come good. He has the attributes of boom or bust, but at present externally he looks like the latter more than the former.

It's why trading him/delisting him should only become a possibility if we could get an upgrade for that list position/role. He's the inside mid with power and dash from the inside of the clearance, or a pacy powerful winger who can find the ball within a stoppage; these are rare traits for any player, and it's difficult to find someone with that projection. Williams isn't it, Martin isn't it, Walsh isn't it. Cooney, Danger, Judd, Riccutto is the archetype.

Here's hoping he gets there.
 

JustaBattler

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May 31, 2012
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We'd be fortunate to get a second for him, and I say that as someone who thinks he'll come good. He has the attributes of boom or bust, but at present externally he looks like the latter more than the former.

It's why trading him/delisting him should only become a possibility if we could get an upgrade for that list position/role. He's the inside mid with power and dash from the inside of the clearance, or a pacy powerful winger who can find the ball within a stoppage; these are rare traits for any player, and it's difficult to find someone with that projection. Williams isn't it, Martin isn't it, Walsh isn't it. Cooney, Danger, Judd, Riccutto is the archetype.

Here's hoping he gets there.
If you ever get to be half right on the upside he will be a good player - my red pen is still in the pencil case - but there are only so many 'glimpses' that can be delivered before it is decided that that is all he's got. Ball is in his court - we have Cuningham/Honey/Philp/Carroll all with similar athletic attributes coming through and in Cuningham's case- already better in my books.
 

Gethelred

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If you ever get to be half right on the upside he will be a good player - my red pen is still in the pencil case - but there are only so many 'glimpses' that can be delivered before it is decided that that is all he's got. Ball is in his court - we have Cuningham/Honey/Philp/Carroll all with similar athletic attributes coming through and in Cuningham's case- already better in my books.
Cunningham has the physical attributes but not the ballsense. He cannot find the ball, and that's a ******* huge encumbrance on a player like that.

Dow does, but lacks the confidence and the fitness. The coaches aren't helping by playing him on the flank, either.
 

JustaBattler

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Cunningham has the physical attributes but not the ballsense. He cannot find the ball, and that's a ******* huge encumbrance on a player like that.

Dow does, but lacks the confidence and the fitness. The coaches aren't helping by playing him on the flank, either.
I'd put money on Cuningham destroying Dow one one one anytime anywhere in any position - but that is neither here nor there- it would be great to see them both playing to their potential and a fail on teh part of the Club if they dont - forced to choose between which one to keep on teh list and which one to let go - Cuningham for me.
 

Coops93

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I'm still not sold on this burst that Dow supposedly has. It gets talked about a lot but can anyone actually recall him bursting away from a stoppage?

Even his infamous goal vs the Suns the defender was actually closing in, he just lost balance at the last second when lunging for the tackle. At very best he's a few rungs below Judd, Cooney or Dangerfield in explosiveness.
 

Gethelred

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I'd put money on Cuningham destroying Dow one one one anytime anywhere in any position
So would I, but that is only useful when they're competing for the same ball. Cuningham isn't going to put himself in the position to be competing for the ball often enough without someone leading him there.
it would be great to see them both playing to their potential and a fail on teh part of the Club if they dont - forced to choose between which one to keep on teh list and which one to let go - Cuningham for me.
For me, too if I'm forced to choose. However, I disagree intensely with how they've been using both Dow and Cuningham; both are midfielders, and have been better options than Murphy for the last 2 years. There is no reason why both can't attend stoppages and ballups much more than they do.
 

JustaBattler

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So would I, but that is only useful when they're competing for the same ball. Cuningham isn't going to put himself in the position to be competing for the ball often enough without someone leading him there.

For me, too if I'm forced to choose. However, I disagree intensely with how they've been using both Dow and Cuningham; both are midfielders, and have been better options than Murphy for the last 2 years. There is no reason why both can't attend stoppages and ballups much more than they do.
Unfortunately for Dow and Cuningham and Stocker - we have built a solid core of mids in Cripps/Walsh/Williams/Ed - cant even find 'real' space for Setterfield so try to manufacture a role for him as a wingman- which he is not suited for - so Teague wants dual purpose mid / forward capability in the non core players- which is pretty standard for every Club these days.

Dow was given first crack following pre-season form - we heard this week what Cuningham is being asked to improve- ( tackling and running patterns for both on ball and forward ) 11 tackles is a good indicator that maybe Cuningham ( finally) has been given clear expectations so he is working on them. Presumably Dow was given same brief along with Stocker/Kennedy....but Stocker and Kennnedy dont have the athletic capacity of Cuningham and neither does Dow.
 

skadoosh

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I'm still not sold on this burst that Dow supposedly has. It gets talked about a lot but can anyone actually recall him bursting away from a stoppage?

Even his infamous goal vs the Suns the defender was actually closing in, he just lost balance at the last second when lunging for the tackle. At very best he's a few rungs below Judd, Cooney or Dangerfield in explosiveness.
Agree - if anything my recent memory of Dow in possession of the ball is that it usually ends up as a rushed handball or rushed kick. He doesn't use his pace whatsoever so give himself a few metres to allow himself to make a composed decision.

The biggest disappointment is that he hasn't even tried to use his pace with ball in hand recently...
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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I'm still not sold on this burst that Dow supposedly has. It gets talked about a lot but can anyone actually recall him bursting away from a stoppage?

Even his infamous goal vs the Suns the defender was actually closing in, he just lost balance at the last second when lunging for the tackle. At very best he's a few rungs below Judd, Cooney or Dangerfield in explosiveness.
You don't remember the goal he kicked against Sydney, in which he took the ball from the stoppage on the back flank and essentially beat everyone back to forward 50? It was in his first season.

I couldn't find footage, but have a look at some of this:


... which shows him breaking away cleanly from stoppages.
 

Metalcrusher

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I think NM would do it, depending on what else was on their plate.

Would probably look similar to our trade for Setterfield, which was a future (early) second rounder and a late swap for a young bloke we liked who was coming off an ACL.

They're in rebuild mode, so a former Pick 3 with 50-ish games to his name, struggling a little for on-ball minutes and maybe needing a fresh start. It's not a sure thing, but if it was they'd be paying a hell of a lot more. It'd just be a high-reward roll of the dice on a player who could actually slot in from day one.
No chance. Mid to late second at a stretch ...
 

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Gethelred

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Agree - if anything my recent memory of Dow in possession of the ball is that it usually ends up as a rushed handball or rushed kick. He doesn't use his pace whatsoever so give himself a few metres to allow himself to make a composed decision.

The biggest disappointment is that he hasn't even tried to use his pace with ball in hand recently...
TBH, we allow effort to determine who is the final possession/disposal in a chain, not system; it's why Ed gets on the end of so many disposal chains to kick inside forward 50 despite not being a desirable person to be doing so. A better stoppage/transition coach would have us getting the ball to Murphy, Williams, SPS, Martin to kick inside 50, and using Dow as a first receiver option where his pace is more useful to get clear possession.

If Dow played for Port specifically, he'd look waaaaaay better than we do because Boak and Wines would actively be looking for him AS WELL AS him getting his own ball within a stoppage. We don't play our stoppages very intelligently.
 

Coops93

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You don't remember the goal he kicked against Sydney, in which he took the ball from the stoppage on the back flank and essentially beat everyone back to forward 50? It was in his first season.

I couldn't find footage, but have a look at some of this:


... which shows him breaking away cleanly from stoppages.
I don't remember that one, unfortunately.

I didn't see much breaking away there to be honest. The only one he was really running away from people was the one vs Hawthorn running into 50, and that wasn't exactly breaking away from congestion. I'll watch it again later, but I really did go into that expecting to be shown to be wrong, but it didn't convince me otherwise on this viewing.

Edit Watched it 3 times now and I'm really not seeing any breakaway clips.
 
Last edited:

teagueyubeauty

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I wouldn’t be swapping out Dow for a draft pick at whatever that is, I’d think about swapping for Ben McKay though.

Dow would be at his favourite club growing up, so I don’t think there would be an issue convincing him.

We need some future planning for Jones finishing up, Harry is at the club already so doubt Ben would have an issue coming across.

I’d much prefer Dow to develop quicker and stay at Carlton though


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

SkyhorseTamer

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You don't remember the goal he kicked against Sydney, in which he took the ball from the stoppage on the back flank and essentially beat everyone back to forward 50? It was in his first season.

I couldn't find footage, but have a look at some of this:


... which shows him breaking away cleanly from stoppages.
It's funny, I enjoyed that video for the glimpses of brilliance from Charlie, mitch and Cuningham
 

gab213

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Aug 29, 2013
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The rumour/rumours are still there gab.

The personal attacks, abuse and condescending remarks is what is gone.

Okay, I must have missed that, there was a long post of crush's which I couldn't see at the time but I probably missed it, no worries. I wasn't missing the abusive or condescending posts either.
 

Cliffords Blues

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You don't remember the goal he kicked against Sydney, in which he took the ball from the stoppage on the back flank and essentially beat everyone back to forward 50? It was in his first season.

I couldn't find footage, but have a look at some of this:


... which shows him breaking away cleanly from stoppages.
Where has this kids confidence gone?
I know its a best package video, but geez he was moving great and kicking with precision.
 

katmanblue

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I'm still not sold on this burst that Dow supposedly has. It gets talked about a lot but can anyone actually recall him bursting away from a stoppage?

Even his infamous goal vs the Suns the defender was actually closing in, he just lost balance at the last second when lunging for the tackle. At very best he's a few rungs below Judd, Cooney or Dangerfield in explosiveness.
Preseason game his 1st or 2nd year at Prinny Park. Burst from centre circle hit someone (Casboult or Charlie maybe) lace out on the lead.
 

Wickzki

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I'm still not sold on this burst that Dow supposedly has. It gets talked about a lot but can anyone actually recall him bursting away from a stoppage?

Even his infamous goal vs the Suns the defender was actually closing in, he just lost balance at the last second when lunging for the tackle. At very best he's a few rungs below Judd, Cooney or Dangerfield in explosiveness.

I loved this in his debut season. Not a stoppage but it was a burst.
 

OldBlueFan

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Sep 23, 2009
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Not sure the Saad and Docherty trades are comparable. The situations were completely different, and at the time Docherty was nowhere near the player he has become.
Hence why I've never suggested that pick 32 should have been enough for Saad (as some on here did at the time, if I recall correctly).
 

Gethelred

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I don't remember that one, unfortunately.

I didn't see much breaking away there to be honest. The only one he was really running away from people was the one vs Hawthorn running into 50, and that wasn't exactly breaking away from congestion. I'll watch it again later, but I really did go into that expecting to be shown to be wrong, but it didn't convince me otherwise on this viewing.

Edit Watched it 3 times now and I'm really not seeing any breakaway clips.
My mistake, it turns out the one I was thinking of was this one, the one you mentioned against GC.


Flying in fear of doing what we're wont to do on this board and start a shitfight over something nominally meaningless, when I say burst what do you take from that? Because I'd certainly argue that there's a number of examples in that tape that display him getting separation from a stoppage and disposing to advantage.
 

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