Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

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Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2015
9,859
15,936
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Carlton
and that's an issue because half the game is in between the ears. I'm sure the club is across it, but I hope we're investing in top quality sports psychologists

I agree, bringing in a great sports psychologist would be huge. I still think we would greatly benefit from some people with the recent on field success to go with that.
 

TENACIOUS

Club Legend
Aug 16, 2008
2,352
9,371
AFL Club
Carlton
Carlton lacks experience in how to and probably also lacks enough kick mark ability to run down the clock over a couple of minutes late in quarters and games - this will be a focus no doubt in pre-season. Melbourne and Collingwodo games should both have been massive against the odds wins - despite all the outs.

Docherty and Weitering should have structured defensive positions mucbh much better and forward line needs to be smart enough to know how to lock teh ball in by creating contests and spillages to see game through - not enough defensive awareness when it matters the most.

Experience is the missing ingredient not mental weakness - a term which means nothing and no 'sports' psychologist can fix in a team anyway.
How do you come to this conclusion?
What is experience?

Experience is a mental aspect...
Sports/Psychologist could certainly help individuals or a team environment benefit...
 
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Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2015
9,859
15,936
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Carlton
Keep seeing this mental weakness s**t, but always slanted in one direction

Clarkson had no flag success as a player before coaching 4 flags

Hodge and Birchall couldn't drag the Lions to a flag

A number of premiership players couldn't drag Saints into the finals

All about the talent and readiness of a side

Not that I ever want to address your posts... but again, you only ever bring up examples one way and run with them...

How about the Tigers bringing in a sports psychologist then going on to have a dynasty? Emma Murray was HUGE..

How about the Cats going after Isaac Smith? It's not about dragging the team to a flag, rather contributing to them winning one and he certainly contributed...

Hodge and Birchall have helped improve that team immensely... where were they before they got Hodge? Last. 2 seasons later they're 2nd... wouldn't we love to finish 2nd on the ladder....

Sam Mitchell at West Coast....
 

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Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2015
9,859
15,936
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Carlton
our problem isnt talent, nor is it mental, its lack of experience.

We will be better next year, even if we dont add anyone

Better if we don't add anyone? Perhaps. But better than 9th doesn't take us to #1 where we want to be...

Let me ask you this, did Geelong lack experience? How many finals campaigns did they fluff up before this year? It wasn't a lack of talent or experience holding them back, mentally they couldn't cope. Simple as that.

Again, I'll bring up Emma Murray joining the Tigers and making a huge difference...

Also, you do realise that what I suggested actually addresses their lack of experience right?
 
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My Hat

All Australian
Aug 18, 2018
652
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Carlton
The more I see it bandied about, the more I think 'mental weakness' has become a nothing term. It basically just means that someone made an error, but labelling it 'weakness' makes a key difference: it shifts it from an action to a characteristic.

This makes it seem like something that can be controlled, e.g. by a sports psych, rather than just something that happens sometimes. It's also often used to justify a harsher critique of the player or team involved, because you see it's not just that they made a mistake, it's that they're mentally weak. (Mentally strong players don't make mistakes in crunch moments, donchaknow.) And it also ignores the other team completely, because apparently if you're mentally strong then you just overcome everything regardless of the opposition and win no matter what. It's kind of like The Secret, but rebranded for football.

The fact is that nobody and no team gets it right all of the time. The best teams get it right maybe 90% of the time? I don't know where we were this year -- maybe 70-80%? But the exact numbers aren't important. What matters is that this isn't a binary 'you're either strong or you're weak' situation. It's a spectrum, made up of any number of components including skills, training, confidence, fitness, gameplan, time spent playing together, etc, and we're working our way along it. This year was better than last year. Next year will be better than this year.

And honestly, if I never see the term 'mentally weak' used to describe our side or one of our players, it will still be too soon.
 

Michael Jezz

Club Legend
Jan 30, 2007
2,882
6,845
collingwood
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Carlton
Am personally pretty stunned that the way he finished his year (on Oliver and De Goey, then crushing the finals in vfl) didn’t convince them he has good value as a tagging midfielder who also finds the ball. Seemed to clean up his fumbling this year. Lifted his intensity big time from about 1/3 through the year. His kicking lacks ‘punch’ but that’s about the only concern.

Really hope he stays.
How does Setters fit into a midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra, Docherty, Carrol?
 

TENACIOUS

Club Legend
Aug 16, 2008
2,352
9,371
AFL Club
Carlton
The more I see it bandied about, the more I think 'mental weakness' has become a nothing term. It basically just means that someone made an error, but labelling it 'weakness' makes a key difference: it shifts it from an action to a characteristic.

This makes it seem like something that can be controlled, e.g. by a sports psych, rather than just something that happens sometimes. It's also often used to justify a harsher critique of the player or team involved, because you see it's not just that they made a mistake, it's that they're mentally weak. (Mentally strong players don't make mistakes in crunch moments, donchaknow.) And it also ignores the other team completely, because apparently if you're mentally strong then you just overcome everything regardless of the opposition and win no matter what. It's kind of like The Secret, but rebranded for football.

The fact is that nobody and no team gets it right all of the time. The best teams get it right maybe 90% of the time? I don't know where we were this year -- maybe 70-80%? But the exact numbers aren't important. What matters is that this isn't a binary 'you're either strong or you're weak' situation. It's a spectrum, made up of any number of components including skills, training, confidence, fitness, gameplan, time spent playing together, etc, and we're working our way along it. This year was better than last year. Next year will be better than this year.

And honestly, if I never see the term 'mentally weak' used to describe our side or one of our players, it will still be too soon.
Think 'inexperienced' is the correct term...

I've been guilty a few months ago of using the term 'mentally weak'...
Meant it in a way that our players could use help in this space, not that they have mental issues... I can see now, it sounds negative and a put down...

Still believe a large chunk of our list/22 are at this stage of our journey are mentally and/or physically 'inexperienced'
due to age, lack of maturity, lack of game time and lack of big game time...

The more experience and good behaviours they learn, individually and as a group the better we will get...

A sports/ psychologist can help in this area...
Either individually or as a group to improve in this space, be it by learning ways of staying calm and focused under pressure, among many things...
Sports/ psychologist can help a player with training, game time and deal with injury...

This is not a revolutionary thing, all AFL teams/elite sports use them...
 

Blue By Blood

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Aug 25, 2014
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How does Setters fit into a midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra, Docherty, Carrol?

Docherty is a defender. He pinch hit through the midfield out of necessity late in the year. Carroll is still unproven but does look promising. Our premiership window is opening up and we need players who are big bodied and ready to step in should we lose a player to injury. On that note, even if Setterfield is a depth player, we can’t afford to lose guys like that for a token draft pick.

Not to mention, Kennedy and Hewett both have injury clouds over them. Hewett has back issues during his time with the Swans and that has resurfaced with us shouldering more midfield minutes. Kennedy has a Lisfranc injury which is notoriously a bugger to get over.

Those wanting to move Setters on.. that’s fine so long as we’re getting a ready made player in return. A third round draft pick does not improve us. If anything it moves the needle backwards. The successful teams have depth and guys that are prepared to buy in, work hard to get a senior opportunity and take it.
 

Manhattanite

Club Legend
Sep 2, 2017
1,168
4,103
AFL Club
Carlton
Martin is best 22 any day of the week. Watch him play and its obvious he is one of the smartest footballers out there.

His injuries, which I appreciate may be as much due to lack of preparation as they are "bad luck", is what is holding him back the most.

I think Martin is also one of those cream on top players - they can’t do the hard work to get a bottom team up and going but they can do the silk moves to set up goals and kick goals when that’s all they need to do. He would do a lot better at say the Cats or Dees or Tigers. But now things are changing. I suspect we will see Martin make a bigger impact now that we have some real hard working talent around him.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

BlueTongue

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2009
4,959
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VOSS IS BOSS
Keep seeing this mental weakness s**t, but always slanted in one direction

Clarkson had no flag success as a player before coaching 4 flags

Hodge and Birchall couldn't drag the Lions to a flag

A number of premiership players couldn't drag Saints into the finals

All about the talent and readiness of a side
So how would you describe a side that continually gets beaten despite being 4+ goals up with only minutes to go.

Teams know we are fragile, and if they are anywhere near a sniff of a few goals, will run over the top of us.

Its certainly not inexperience, we’ve been in that position countless times.
 

blue healer

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 25, 2010
7,058
11,813
wagga wagga
AFL Club
Carlton
Docherty is a defender. He pinch hit through the midfield out of necessity late in the year. Carroll is still unproven but does look promising. Our premiership window is opening up and we need players who are big bodied and ready to step in should we lose a player to injury. On that note, even if Setterfield is a depth player, we can’t afford to lose guys like that for a token draft pick.

Not to mention, Kennedy and Hewett both have injury clouds over them. Hewett has back issues during his time with the Swans and that has resurfaced with us shouldering more midfield minutes. Kennedy has a Lisfranc injury which is notoriously a bugger to get over.

Those wanting to move Setters on.. that’s fine so long as we’re getting a ready made player in return. A third round draft pick does not improve us. If anything it moves the needle backwards. The successful teams have depth and guys that are prepared to buy in, work hard to get a senior opportunity and take it.

What if that third round draft pick got us Tom Mitchell?
 

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JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
23,805
51,422
AFL Club
Carlton
How do you come to this conclusion?
What is experience?

Experience is a mental aspect...
Sports/Psychologist could certainly help individuals or a team environment benefit...
Think 'inexperienced' is the correct term...

I've been guilty a few months ago of using the term 'mentally weak'...
Meant it in a way that our players could use help in this space, not that they have mental issues... I can see now, it sounds negative and a put down...

Still believe a large chunk of our list/22 are at this stage of our journey are mentally and/or physically 'inexperienced'
due to age, lack of maturity, lack of game time and lack of big game time...

The more experience and good behaviours they learn, individually and as a group the better we will get...

A sports/ psychologist can help in this area...
Either individually or as a group to improve in this space, be it by learning ways of staying calm and focused under pressure, among many things...
Sports/ psychologist can help a player with training, game time and deal with injury...

This is not a revolutionary thing, all AFL teams/elite sports use them...
you've answered your own question.

FYI - I've been running high-performance teams for a few decades now and performance psychologists might be a thing in AFL - but has been a 'thing' in other industries for much much longer...

Mentoring of course can help individuals but psych techniques cant be applied to a group of people or a collective or a team - a team is a construct made up of individuals working together in so far as each individual has to be able to execute on their role using their idiosyncratic skill set.

Experience is literally having experienced similar situations and learning what to do and what not to do it takes time and good leadership.

Peopel should stop bandying words like mental and between the ears and above the shoulders - meaningless dribble and insulting to players imo.
 

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
4,996
15,249
the wilderness
AFL Club
Carlton
I agree, bringing in a great sports psychologist would be huge. I still think we would greatly benefit from some people with the recent on field success to go with that.

We poached the sports psych from Hawthorn a few years back - the players have name-dropped her in interviews but unfortunately she can't take the field for them
 

jpfalvo

All Australian
Aug 2, 2009
698
1,803
AFL Club
Carlton
We should chase the Bowes pick7 salary dump.

Id be happy to trade all of.

Setters
Dow
Kennedy

To make that happen.

Go to draft with 2 Top 10picks

Kennedy (lisfranc)
Walsh (back)
Hewitt (back)

All have potential career threatening injuries of which we have had no updates.

We need durability, and given Kennedy has shown when injured it takes him along time to get back, he is the one thats expendable but would attract interest

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
 

CJMB

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2017
5,662
19,138
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Taps to advantage are overrated, given it combines two players to benefit a ruckmans stats, moreso what a ruckman does around the ground and or forward
Goes both ways though, in that raw hitout numbers are worth SFA if you’re not doing anything with it, ie going to no one or the opposition sharks it.

Hitouts to advantage is no different to goal assists or score involvements as a metric in that regard.
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
38,019
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Carlton
Not that I ever want to address your posts... but again, you only ever bring up examples one way and run with them...

How about the Tigers bringing in a sports psychologist then going on to have a dynasty? Emma Murray was HUGE..

How about the Cats going after Isaac Smith? It's not about dragging the team to a flag, rather contributing to them winning one and he certainly contributed...

Hodge and Birchall have helped improve that team immensely... where were they before they got Hodge? Last. 2 seasons later they're 2nd... wouldn't we love to finish 2nd on the ladder....

Sam Mitchell at West Coast....

Yet here you are

You allude to a lack of balance in my post, yet you state only one side, of which you have no idea of a players/team mental capacity unless you are in the inner sanctum

Perhaps improving our output by 50% on the previous year is an indication of a growing belief

Perhaps having the least number of experienced players in the league at 28+ years of age is an indication of the lack of readiness

Perhaps having the most injuries of any top 10 side affects our output, while also experiencing in game injuries

Smith joined the Cats last year, why didn't he help them take the next step/win a flag in 2021

Lions finished 6th after finals

How did Melbourne win 2021 with no premiership players on the list

Hamling must have contributed in a huge way for the Dockers to make finals this year

So many factors, yet you want to lean on an aspect you have no knowledge of, being on the outside

So how would you describe a side that continually gets beaten despite being 4+ goals up with only minutes to go.

Teams know we are fragile, and if they are anywhere near a sniff of a few goals, will run over the top of us.

Its certainly not inexperience, we’ve been in that position countless times.

Continually? We lost 3 close games this year, to sides that finished top 4, yet people completely exclude our close wins

Every player/side/club has access to sports psychologists

So if next year, we add Acres and no other player/person with premiership experience, but make the 8, will we still suggest we need more flag experience to improve this so called mental fragility?
 
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skadoosh

Premiership Player
May 26, 2011
3,195
13,099
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SEVEN more years of Harry McKay in the Navy Blue guernsey.

That is the commitment the 24-year-old made today when he joined his teammates in signing a contract extension to remain at IKON Park until at least the end of 2030.