Board discussion

[LemmingMaster]

FMD, heaven forbid we develop some online friendships and connections and have some fun in the meantime.....abhorrent thought

I think his point is more with regards to groups of posters that once one of them is "attacked/disagreed with" then a group of his "friends/clique" come to the rescue and all attack the poster.

This potential new poster than decides that this is some sort of boys club which they're obviously not part of the popular group. I know that in some of my more private forums my thoughts are more open due to respectful banter and disagreement between each other.

 

[thylacine60]

I think his point is more with regards to groups of posters that once one of them is "attacked/disagreed with" then a group of his "friends/clique" come to the rescue and all attack the poster.

This potential new poster than decides that this is some sort of boys club which they're obviously not part of the popular group. I know that in some of my more private forums my thoughts are more open due to respectful banter and disagreement between each other.

You might wanna back off taking potshots at Splendini there, champ.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Again, we can not be selective in allowing opposition supporters to come in here and engage in banter. All banter has a line and once you allow it in, it is hard to define where that line is.

You can't have them coming in saying that we cheat, we tank, this player is crap, you are going nowhere etc etc. It is all in their approach and how they articulate it.

This board will never be about having bar type banter between fans, because this isn't a public bar. It is our home. You don't allow visitors to come into your home and tell you your family sucks and your furniture sucks and the area you live in is a slum .... even if it is. Same thing applies here. This isn't the place for opposition pointscoring.

Leeway is granted when our supporters make claims about another team and their supporters refute the claim. In these cases they must keep their eye on the ball and be willing to rise above the rubbish, or simply report it.

Lots of posters like opposition banter, lots do not. Many prefer it to be in its appropriate place where you can engage if you wish, not on your doorstep.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think his point is more with regards to groups of posters that once one of them is "attacked/disagreed with" then a group of his "friends/clique" come to the rescue and all attack the poster.

That's a perception though. I have seen posters that will argue the same point against someone else but also disagree with each other on other points. Sometimes it is just a poorly made point that begs to be dissected. In those cases, I ask that those doing the dissecting be constructive in doing so.

This potential new poster than decides that this is some sort of boys club which they're obviously not part of the popular group. I know that in some of my more private forums my thoughts are more open due to respectful banter and disagreement between each other.

New posters do have to be patient and do have to be not take things personally. It can be a cut and thrust place, and you are walking on to a different playground.

Nobody can say, hey boys play nice because the new kid might feel intimidated. To all new posters I say, have a read, get a feel, realise when someone is going after you or just being their normal persona. I can not say to people, to not be sociable with each other online, in case new posters get upset about not belonging. Internet relationships keep people coming back.

I would like to see more 'welcome newb, abandon all hope' type messages. It was warm and it was inviting and it was straight away letting them in on an insider joke. I feel that sort of thing has disappeared for the most part.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

New poster thread created. Call it an introduction/Induction thread if you like.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19793706#post19793706

 

[LemmingMaster]

Again, we can not be selective in allowing opposition supporters to come in here and engage in banter. All banter has a line and once you allow it in, it is hard to define where that line is.

Is this a product of the dark days and the board feeling like it needs protection?
You can't have them coming in saying that we cheat, we tank, this player is crap, you are going nowhere etc etc. It is all in their approach and how they articulate it.

If someone comes to the board and posts those things, then they know they've crossed the line and should be dealt with appropriately. I know that I am a lot more respectful on opposition boards than I would be at the bar and our own board, still it really bugs me when a poster simply says "Piss off back to your own board". As I said in my initial post, it is more about our own supporters attitudes than the opposition.

This board will never be about having bar type banter between fans, because this isn't a public bar. It is our home. You don't allow visitors to come into your home and tell you your family sucks and your furniture sucks and the area you live in is a slum .... even if it is. Same thing applies here. This isn't the place for opposition pointscoring.

Leeway is granted when our supporters make claims about another team and their supporters refute the claim. In these cases they must keep their eye on the ball and be willing to rise above the rubbish, or simply report it.

Lots of posters like opposition banter, lots do not. Many prefer it to be in its appropriate place where you can engage if you wish, not on your doorstep.

I know you have a tough job, it is more about how our own supporters act than how the outside supports act on our board. I find at times there is a little attacking of the man and not their thoughts.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

There may be a little of that Tarquin, but perhaps overstated a tad.

If you are going to err, you err on the side of the locals, not the opposition supporters. Some make their views on Carlton well known on other boards, so naturally locals will not tolerate it if they bring similar views, even if cleaned up a little.

We are encouraging Carlton posters to respond appropriately, but we are not throwing the doors open for pointscoring and for the club, players and supporters to be dissected by outsiders. They have other boards, why make the last remaining board where you can't do that, an open board as well?

Some of our posters only like posting on this board, and a lack of opposition banter on this board does not stop most Carlton supporters from coming in here to check out what's new. Slip on to the main board, find opposition supporters pointing out our deficiencies, real or imagined, any day of the week. Slip into the polls board and you will find that we seldom have any players that are better than fringe players at another club. Slip into the Bay and you will find that we are the most morally corrupt club anywhere anytime. Slip into another team board and you will find that we are loathed and most of us are feral. Slip into a gameday board and you will find we seldom win without umpire assistance.

It's not about the bad old days. It's about having a place to call our own, where we have slightly more rights than our detractors.

 

[Monkey King]

These are my main concerns and they relate more to the posting style of our own supporters, than outside posters.

1. Carlton posters that when an opposition supporter comes to the Carlton board and makes a statement that we may not like, it is received by, piss off back to your own board.

2. Carlton posters that attack anything slightly negative, Carlton does have some issues like any team and it is important to be reflective.

AND 3. Threads can drift way off-topic. We've got a sub-forum for that.

I reckon that would sum it up for me.

Re: 1) Not saying it's the prevalent attitude, but you see it enough for it to be annoying. I don't want opposition supporters to piss off; it's why I'm on BF as opposed to a strictly Carlton forum. So long as what's posted genuinely adds to the discussion, I don't care whether it's negative or positive or what team they support.

 

[Dramoth]

You can't have them coming in saying that we cheat, we tank, this player is crap, you are going nowhere etc etc. It is all in their approach and how they articulate it.

If someone, an opposition supporter, can come in here and construct a valid and lucid argument as to why a player is crap or why they believe that we are going nowhere etc, which allows us the right of a decent rebuttal argument then they are more than welcome because it invites discussion.

It's the fools who come in, write one line ('Your a bunch of cheeting tankers and you are going to lose') and then vanish in the mists of the ethernet that usually deserves the 'piss off back to your own board w***er' responses that they will invariably get.

The other issue is that a few of our own supporters have very massive knee jerk reactions to losses and come on here calling for heads to roll when there is no need at the time. Then you have a few sheeple who blindly follow the original troll and before you know it, it's a full scale flame war between those who see that there is no need for change and that the loss was a minor setback and the people calling for heads, while the people who originally started the thread disappear off into the sunset with the contented feeling of causing massive drama on the board.

 

[Chism]

Again, we can not be selective in allowing opposition supporters to come in here and engage in banter. All banter has a line and once you allow it in, it is hard to define where that line is.

You can't have them coming in saying that we cheat, we tank, this player is crap, you are going nowhere etc etc. It is all in their approach and how they articulate it.

This board will never be about having bar type banter between fans, because this isn't a public bar. It is our home. You don't allow visitors to come into your home and tell you your family sucks and your furniture sucks and the area you live in is a slum .... even if it is. Same thing applies here. This isn't the place for opposition pointscoring.

Leeway is granted when our supporters make claims about another team and their supporters refute the claim. In these cases they must keep their eye on the ball and be willing to rise above the rubbish, or simply report it.

Lots of posters like opposition banter, lots do not. Many prefer it to be in its appropriate place where you can engage if you wish, not on your doorstep.

So true ODN and for me this board is moderated well and posters calling for more banter with the opposition supporters are just inviting the devil into your bed if you ask me. You give them an inch and they then take a mile. It is all well good to have discussion etc but sadly to many posters on here lack the intelligence to actually have one without the words tankers, cheats , paper bags etc being thrown around.

The main board is there for discussing topics with the opposition and the quality on there lately serves as a good reminder to what we dont want our board to become IMO.

If people think the opposition supporters get a hard time here then they should visit other teams boards and they are ruled with an even harder fist and team boards are our own sanctuary to get away from a lot the idiots that congregate on BF to troll and shit stir throwing in cleverly disguised one liners, so stay in the appropriate sections and OFF other team boards.

Most of us ( i wont say all because anyone can list Carlton as their team supported ) are passionate about Carlton and dont react well to sledging of our club and we have endured enough tough times over the last 10 years than i want to ever remember and the last thing i want is to come here on our board and hear the mindless drivel from inept oxygen thief's who support other clubs reminding us all about it.

N.B

The only criticism i really have on the Modding here is the need for more!! Happens quite often when a big story breaks or after a game etc no Mods are online for whatever reason and most spats with the opposition trolls occur when Mods are not on!!

You can also be sure during a game or around the time of a controversy involving us if ODN or MSR are online and actively viewing the board the trolling remarks are VERY few and far between!!

 

[blues4flag]

If someone, an opposition supporter, can come in here and construct a valid and lucid argument as to why a player is crap or why they believe that we are going nowhere etc, which allows us the right of a decent rebuttal argument then they are more than welcome because it invites discussion.

Agree. I have no problem with the trolls (obvious or otherwise) being put back in their place, but when genuine supporters with well reasoned posts get shit-canned for having a contrary opinion (or sometimes purely for being an opposition supporter) it does irk me.

Seems to me some supporters have a distinct superiority complex when it comes to opposition supporters. They realise that we as Carlton supporters are protected here and thus tend to reply in an inordinately harsh/dismissive manner even towards well meaning opposition supporters.

 

[Blues_Man]

If opposition supporters want to troll our team ...sorry want to post negative comments then let them remain on the main board with the other nuffys ..we don't need to read their crap in here .

Constructive intelligent posts regarding our team are mostly well recieved ...but weeding the trolls from the well meaning is a tough job ..so just err on the side of if it looks like a troll and sounds like a troll then it's fair game .

when you see a newbie start a negative thread regarding Carlton ..they always start out with "this is not a troll ".. you can bet your left testicle that it's a troll .

This is the Carlton board and should remain so.

 

[jono25]

You might wanna back off taking potshots at Splendini there, champ.

He summarised my point very well. Not sure if you were trying to be funny in jumping in to defend Splendini - if so great. But if you weren't you just demonstrated my point.

ODN I agree there is a place for jokes and many times I have laughed for ages at some of the pictures/slogans posted on here. But often threads just get derailed by stupid joke/post after post. It takes a 5 page thread into an 8-10 page thread and that is annoying.

Totally agree with the comment on belting anyone who says anything slightly negative. There are idiots that just want to bash the club - send them packing. But unless we are winning a flag every year there is room for improvement and people have a right to point out where they think this is without the usual suspects lining up one by one to pick on them.

 

[Claypigeon]

The problem on this board is definitely the existing click some posters have. Until that is fixed it will discourage quality contributions from new and irregular posters.

I also 1000% agree with the posting of crap that is just not funny. Thread after thread gets taken over by the usual suspects posting stupid pictures and the like. It is a footy forum - occassion humour is fine but we are here to discuss football!

ODN is right Cliques generally exist in the imagination of the accuser and are generally only perceived an issue if your not part of the club. .. Personally I enjoy the community aspect of the forum. .. I'm new and not imbedded in said community but I'm happy to voice my opinion, cop my dues and hopefully earn the respect of like minded peeps. .. Those that choose to target me, have just missed the irony of my username. ..

AND 3. Threads can drift way off-topic. We've got a sub-forum for that.

This always bugs me. .. "you're off topic" is often the banter of someone finding themselves out of their depth. .. Topics evolve and drift with the thread, so what 'was' the topic may not 'be' the topic a page later and the 'may' be the topic again a couple of pages later. .. evolution/devolution, its all part of a forum. ..

 

[Salaryman]

Welcome over with the sugar coaters clay

 

[Claypigeon]

Welcome over with the sugar coaters clay

mmm sugar. .. everything tastes better with sugar on it. ..

note, it doesn't always taste good tho

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Sugar Coaters .... come out to play-ay

[YOUTUBE]v/u05Qot_yh9c?fs=1[/YOUTUBE]

 

[mediumsizered]

Totally agree with the comment on belting anyone who says anything slightly negative. There are idiots that just want to bash the club - send them packing. But unless we are winning a flag every year there is room for improvement and people have a right to point out where they think this is without the usual suspects lining up one by one to pick on them.

There is a difference between constructive criticism & a negative post.

Too often some posters who have a set against certain players, coaches, administrators, will just tear strips off the individual e.g. Ratts can't coach, Russell is a hack, fancy picking Yarran ahead of Rich etc etc. This type of poster doesn't put forward any compelling argument as to why they believe Ratts can't coach, Russell is a hack or Yarran will never be any good.

We are all for posters identifying flaws in players, coaches, administrators, but they must back it up with reasons why they believe these flaws exist. This is particularly so during the season when a player has an off day, or the whole team has an off day & then people just become irrational, knocking everyone from the coach to the property steward.

If posters aren't prepared to rationally explain why they think a player is not in our best 22, or not up to AFL football, etc, then they can offer nothing constructive to our board.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Seems to me some supporters have a distinct superiority complex when it comes to opposition supporters. They realise that we as Carlton supporters are protected here and thus tend to reply in an inordinately harsh/dismissive manner even towards well meaning opposition supporters.

Well said b4f. This was the point I was trying to make about a lot of the "**** off back to your own board" comments, but you've expressed it better.

To me it smacks of school yard bully behaviour and demeans not only the poster but the board as a whole. Sure, maybe things are as bad or worse for Carlton folk when they visit other boards, but does it have to be a race to the bottom?

 

[Dramoth]

There is a difference between constructive criticism & a negative post.

Too often some posters who have a set against certain players, coaches, administrators, will just tear strips off the individual e.g. Ratts can't coach, Russell is a hack, fancy picking Yarran ahead of Rich etc etc. This type of poster doesn't put forward any compelling argument as to why they believe Ratts can't coach, Russell is a hack or Yarran will never be any good.

We are all for posters identifying flaws in players, coaches, administrators, but they must back it up with reasons why they believe these flaws exist. This is particularly so during the season when a player has an off day, or the whole team has an off day & then people just become irrational, knocking everyone from the coach to the property steward.

If posters aren't prepared to rationally explain why they think a player is not in our best 22, or not up to AFL football, etc, then they can offer nothing constructive to our board.

And as I said, too often the knockers just float in, drop their 2 cents worth into a new thread, hang around for 5 minutes to defend their points of view by calling all who disagree with them brown-nosers or yes men and then disappear up their own butts happy with their work.

Quite often what they post is full of vitriol against their chosen target (mostly Ratts, the current president, the recruiting staff for pick a certain player and the CEO and board) without any logic and reasoning why the target is deserving of their vitriol.

I fully expect THS, BRIB and MCB to be out in force calling for Ratts head next year if we lose by even a point.

 

[thylacine60]

He summarised my point very well. Not sure if you were trying to be funny in jumping in to defend Splendini - if so great. But if you weren't you just demonstrated my point.

ODN I agree there is a place for jokes and many times I have laughed for ages at some of the pictures/slogans posted on here. But often threads just get derailed by stupid joke/post after post. It takes a 5 page thread into an 8-10 page thread and that is annoying.

Totally agree with the comment on belting anyone who says anything slightly negative. There are idiots that just want to bash the club - send them packing. But unless we are winning a flag every year there is room for improvement and people have a right to point out where they think this is without the usual suspects lining up one by one to pick on them.

Think you demonstrated a more salient point than I.

 

[blue gunslinger]

There is a difference between constructive criticism & a negative post.

Too often some posters who have a set against certain players, coaches, administrators, will just tear strips off the individual e.g. Ratts can't coach, Russell is a hack, fancy picking Yarran ahead of Rich etc etc. This type of poster doesn't put forward any compelling argument as to why they believe Ratts can't coach, Russell is a hack or Yarran will never be any good.

We are all for posters identifying flaws in players, coaches, administrators, but they must back it up with reasons why they believe these flaws exist. This is particularly so during the season when a player has an off day, or the whole team has an off day & then people just become irrational, knocking everyone from the coach to the property steward.

If posters aren't prepared to rationally explain why they think a player is not in our best 22, or not up to AFL football, etc, then they can offer nothing constructive to our board.

I ask myself should I listen to a man who cannot even choose an avatar-thingy?

 

[Blue since 72]

I think this board is well run and I always enjoy coming here. I also enjoy the bay and many other boards on BF.

It is what it is though. People taking cheap shots, disagreements, repitition, cliques, outcasts, the list goes on, no different to any other part of society.

A tough skin would help but not everyone has one so the best we can hope for is that everyone who has something to say takes the opportunity with the understanding that there will be a range of responses; just like real life.

I understand the mods need to reinforce the appropriate 'manners' from time to time, primarily to get us all to stop and think about the way we conduct ourselves but it will go back to the way it was sooner or later.

Very few of us actually know each other on here. I'd suggest the 'tone' of alot of discussion would be somewhat different if we did.

Take it seriously by all means, but try not to take it too personally. Surely the thoughts and opinions of those who know us best are of most importance to us.

 

[Monkey King]

This always bugs me. .. "you're off topic" is often the banter of someone finding themselves out of their depth. ..

A strange response that seems to struggle with the reality of it all.

It might surprise a few, but some posters have joined this footy forum for the footy related stuff. When you see footy topic threads being taken into the realms of non-footy discussion for several pages/days, it's detracts from the board IMO; and when there is a sub-forum that directly caters for this preference, it's just downright annoying.

Being that this is a thread designed specifically for such comments and criticisms, it is obviously not banter that I'm engaging in here, but a genuine take on the trends of this board. Inanely relegating someone who feels this way to simply being "out of their depth" misses the point and negates the purpose of the thread.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

A strange response that seems to struggle with the reality of it all.

It might surprise a few, but some posters have joined this footy forum for the footy related stuff. When you see footy topic threads being taken into the realms of non-footy discussion for several pages/days, it's detracts from the board IMO; and when there is a sub-forum that directly caters for this preference, it's just downright annoying.

Being that this is a thread designed specifically for such comments and criticisms, it is obviously not banter that I'm engaging in here, but a genuine take on the trends of this board. Inanely relegating someone who feels this way to simply being "out of their depth" misses the point and negates the purpose of the thread.

I take that on board MK. I would suggest however that humour that springs out of the ground as a result of something somebody says or as a result of a warm internet relationship, is not scripted and can not be easily transferred to a dedicated Blue Room thread.

Yes, jokes do get laboured and therefore become tiresome if they go on for pages and pages, but just like real life, randomly occurring comedic interjections have their place, almost anywhere. Obviously there are exceptions though.