Bomber Thompson

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FFC_RoyBoys said:
FWIW, I do think Cadel was relatively clean The key word is of course relative.

There was a very good analysis done of the TdF riders called "Not Normal".

Cannot find it on line at the moment and can't find where I downloaded it a few years back, but I do remember that for the most part Cadel's performance was at the high end of normal with a couple of suspect rides (rides that might have been humanly possible but could have also been chemically assisted).

The analysis clearly has limitations but, it appeared to correlate pretty closely to what we have subsequently found out about various riders

Was he double fisting EPO and Testo like many of his contemporaries at the time - it would appear not. Did he ride totally on bread and water - nah - even in 2011, which, at a whisker under 40 clicks was a somewhat slow race, to be up the front at the end, not only do you need a strong team to support you, you also need a little help from time to time.
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High end of normal, eh? That sounds suspicious.
 

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Ancient Tiger said:
Bomba is into the non pepsi variety of entertainment my sources tell me.
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I've heard that too but that aint doping and a hell of a lot more acceptable in AFL circles it would seem.
 
RegHickeyStand said:
Who would that be, then? If Evans, you seem to be saying Evans won it in 2011 in a drug fueled environment.

I'm not sure that is correct, timeline wise. I also don't think his performance in 2011 was an upsurge that would indicate drug assistance. I will stand corrected. He had his chances a year or two back from that, but got injured a couple of times which slowed him up. The common wisdom is that by 2011 the Tour had been cleaned up, and that helped Evans more than the drugs Ferrari was still giving him from that one meeting in 2000. Obviously there were more meetings. Remind me.
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Stand then.

The 2010 winner DQd for drugs. THe Armstong bust hasn't even happened yet. 1/2 of the 2011 top ten who Evans led home are known dopers. In 2012 French police make multiple arrests for doping offences during the Tour.

But 2011 was clean.:rolleyes:
 
Laphroaig said:
Stand then.

The 2010 winner DQd for drugs. THe Armstong bust hasn't even happened yet. 1/2 of the 2011 top ten who Evans led home are known dopers. In 2012 French police make multiple arrests for doping offences during the Tour.

But 2011 was clean.:rolleyes:
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You really are a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you? Maybe, just maybe, Cadel was an amazingly gifted athlete...!
 
LoungeLizard said:
That's the really sad thing isn't it? they are all amazingly gifted.
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In Cadel's case, the most gifted Australia has ever seen but I get your point.
 
Laphroaig said:
Stand then.

The 2010 winner DQd for drugs. THe Armstong bust hasn't even happened yet. 1/2 of the 2011 top ten who Evans led home are known dopers. In 2012 French police make multiple arrests for doping offences during the Tour.

But 2011 was clean.:rolleyes:
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...-strength-levels/story-fngr0c3f-1226661457505

The Armstrong bust was and ongoing slow train crash.

The known dopers of 2011 weren't into the dope so much by 2011
http://news.discovery.com/adventure/extreme-sports/tour-de-france-drugs-120629.htm

Contador got done in 2010, and the authorities were rounding them up in 2012. Blood indicators saw a big drop off in the 2011 Tour.

Thanks.

Now, lets get back to that secret meeting Carlton fitness staff had with Alavi. I don't need to know anything else. I'm gonna stop right there.
 
Dero said:
In Cadel's case, the most gifted Australia has ever seen but I get your point.
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The Cat has made me see the likelihood of Cadel NOT doping is kind of low. No way he can compete against a bunch of doped up dudes and not be doped up himself. Sad.
 
Dero said:
In Cadel's case, the most gifted Australia has ever seen but I get your point.
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but the best racers may just be Gerrans and Anderson.

cycling is racing, and Evans was not the best racer.

It is a paradox, he has the best numbers on the ergo, he has the engine, and to ride general classification you need to ride tactically and not use your energy up in attacks and blowing your load, you need to ride conservatively for a tilt at the general classification. And in his defense, he was riding against a pretty doped up peloton. So is he supposed to ride like Armstrong and Vino when they were doped thru the nose even when the entire peloton is doping, you can only attack if you dope thru your septum and risk personal health.*

so, it means, paradoxically, you ride conservatively. And most say Gerrans is a wheelsucker FFC_RoyBoys but he wins ALOT. But what would they say if Evans just attacked like Vino and never won. Cos if he did not dope equivalent to Vino, he would not be as successful as Vino, even if I think he was much more naturally talented than Vino.

And Vino aint a wine, it is not detritus


*the personal health is a bit of hyperbole, and it does contradict my thesis on the doping and PEDs in sport, which indeed have caused fatalities, but like-to-like, ceteris paribus, it does not make cycling to be like a construction labourer and building worksite as a place of employment. And all of pro sport is not safe safe. If you wanna safe life in the mature economy West, seek out a freekin deskjob.
 

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RegHickeyStand said:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...-strength-levels/story-fngr0c3f-1226661457505

The Armstrong bust was and ongoing slow train crash.

The known dopers of 2011 weren't into the dope so much by 2011
http://news.discovery.com/adventure/extreme-sports/tour-de-france-drugs-120629.htm

Contador got done in 2010, and the authorities were rounding them up in 2012. Blood indicators saw a big drop off in the 2011 Tour.

Thanks.

Now, lets get back to that secret meeting Carlton fitness staff had with Alavi. I don't need to know anything else. I'm gonna stop right there.
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yeah, its still Game Theory. see: FFC_RoyBoys sig, they just dope to a new threshold and stay under the radar, the peloton have a new standard for full-ret@rd doping. And this is indeed the politically correct cycling idiom to describe egregious doping, aka, full-ret@rd doping. I think I subverted Chief, he of unmatched wisdom's swear filter successfully, even tho ret@rd is not profanity.

 
blackcat said:
but the best racers may just be Gerrans and Anderson.

cycling is racing, and Evans was not the best racer.

It is a paradox, he has the best numbers on the ergo, he has the engine, and to ride general classification you need to ride tactically and not use your energy up in attacks and blowing your load, you need to ride conservatively for a tilt at the general classification. And in his defense, he was riding against a pretty doped up peloton. So is he supposed to ride like Armstrong and Vino when they were doped thru the nose even when the entire peloton is doping, you can only attack if you dope thru your septum and risk personal health.*

so, it means, paradoxically, you ride conservatively. And most say Gerrans is a wheelsucker FFC_RoyBoys but he wins ALOT. But what would they say if Evans just attacked like Vino and never won. Cos if he did not dope equivalent to Vino, he would not be as successful as Vino, even if I think he was much more naturally talented than Vino.

And Vino aint a wine, it is not detritus


*the personal health is a bit of hyperbole, and it does contradict my thesis on the doping and PEDs in sport, which indeed have caused fatalities, but like-to-like, ceteris paribus, it does not make cycling to be like a construction labourer and building worksite as a place of employment. And all of pro sport is not safe safe. If you wanna safe life in the mature economy West, seek out a freekin deskjob.
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It just isn't that simple pal.

Did you mean botrytis when you wrote detritus? I am sorry but your post is an extremely long-winded piece of crap.
 
blackcat said:
re:cycling, so you dont reckon Skippy Anderson and Gerro are out greatest exports as racers. Does Evans trump them all because he has won on the highest stage even tho he rode conservatively and was forced to ride conservatively in a pretty hot peloton.
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I am a Gerro fan and have watched Richie Porte scream up Wilunga a few times (Actually saw Lance there once as well coincidently) but none have impressed me more than Cadel. Anderson was slightly before my time. Robbie McEwan would have to be up there but he was a sprinter so I guess you can't really compare apples with apples.
That's the thing about cycling though, it is pretty hard to compare apples with apples although it is easier to compare Gerro with Cadel given that they raced together on different teams as the number one rider for general classification. Even when Cadel had a crap team he was able to punch above his weight which is something Gerro has not been able to do. You could say but drugz… to which I would counter with Cadel having the highest VO2 max ever tested for a young Australian cyclist at the AIS. Surely you'd have to admit that there is some evidence to suggest that Cadel is genetically gifted and was predisposed towards success given these gifts.
 
Dero said:
I am a Gerro fan and have watched Richie Porte scream up Wilunga a few times (Actually saw Lance there once as well coincidently) but none have impressed me more than Cadel. Anderson was slightly before my time. Robbie McEwan would have to be up there but he was a sprinter so I guess you can't really compare apples with apples.
That's the thing about cycling though, it is pretty hard to compare apples with apples although it is easier to compare Gerro with Cadel given that they raced together on different teams as the number one rider for general classification. Even when Cadel had a crap team he was able to punch above his weight which is something Gerro has not been able to do. You could say but drugz… to which I would counter with Cadel having the highest VO2 max ever tested for a young Australian cyclist at the AIS. Surely you'd have to admit that there is some evidence to suggest that Cadel is genetically gifted and was predisposed towards success given these gifts.
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errr, on the VO2 in Canberra, that is up for contention,

we have Stuey
Will Walker
Cadel
Aitken
Mcgee

then there is the rower, but using upperbody on an ergo, a rower always tests higher in an ergo VO2max

I think actually, Walker and Aitken are about 92
Stuey is about 90
Evans is about 88
Mcgee is about 86.

someone might be able to get the numbers. I think now, they use the ramp test, and turbo durbo Durbridge tests phenomenally well in this
 
Dero said:
I am a Gerro fan and have watched Richie Porte scream up Wilunga a few times (Actually saw Lance there once as well coincidently) but none have impressed me more than Cadel. Anderson was slightly before my time. Robbie McEwan would have to be up there but he was a sprinter so I guess you can't really compare apples with apples.
That's the thing about cycling though, it is pretty hard to compare apples with apples although it is easier to compare Gerro with Cadel given that they raced together on different teams as the number one rider for general classification. Even when Cadel had a crap team he was able to punch above his weight which is something Gerro has not been able to do. You could say but drugz… to which I would counter with Cadel having the highest VO2 max ever tested for a young Australian cyclist at the AIS. Surely you'd have to admit that there is some evidence to suggest that Cadel is genetically gifted and was predisposed towards success given these gifts.
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#standbyoppy
 
blackcat said:
yeah, its still Game Theory. see: FFC_RoyBoys sig, they just dope to a new threshold and stay under the radar, the peloton have a new standard for full-ret@rd doping. And this is indeed the politically correct cycling idiom to describe egregious doping, aka, full-ret@rd doping.
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If they were all doping like *s back in the day, and a competitor like Evans was also doping, why wasn't Evans doping like the rest of them back then? It doesn't make sense to think he was staying under today's limits back in 2005-8 when it was open slather. Yet statistics say he was either fairly clean, or doing that.
 
blackcat said:
errr, on the VO2 in Canberra, that is up for contention,

we have Stuey
Will Walker
Cadel
Aitken
Mcgee

then there is the rower, but using upperbody on an ergo, a rower always tests higher in an ergo VO2max

I think actually, Walker and Aitken are about 92
Stuey is about 90
Evans is about 88
Mcgee is about 86.

someone might be able to get the numbers. I think now, they use the ramp test, and turbo durbo Durbridge tests phenomenally well in this
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Yeah my bad if that is true. As posted, my understanding was that of the young riders tested at AIS he has been the best ever tested. Were Stuey, Aitken etc tested at the AIS?
Will Walker could have been anything so no surprises there nor for Stuey as I suspect he did not feel pain like normal humans. Shame he ended up with his career tarnished.
 
I'd be interested to see Richie's results as well. Sorry to hijack the thread!
 
Dero said:
You really are a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you? Maybe, just maybe, Cadel was an amazingly gifted athlete...!
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Of course that's the answer.

A certain iconic cycling commentator once said that it was possible to remove drugs from cycling. ANd we should do it if we really wanted to see the TDF ridden at 30 Kmh.

Of course Cadel could ride in the 40s and 50s without drugs. Even though nobody else can. It's the only sensible conclusion....
 
RegHickeyStand said:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...-strength-levels/story-fngr0c3f-1226661457505

The Armstrong bust was and ongoing slow train crash.

The known dopers of 2011 weren't into the dope so much by 2011
http://news.discovery.com/adventure/extreme-sports/tour-de-france-drugs-120629.htm

Contador got done in 2010, and the authorities were rounding them up in 2012. Blood indicators saw a big drop off in the 2011 Tour.

Thanks.
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No thank you. You've reaffirmed the emerging science on brain function - that the human brain is capable of convincing itself of pretty much anything it wants to believe is true.

RegHickeyStand said:
Thanks.

Now, lets get back to that secret meeting Carlton fitness staff had with Alavi. I don't need to know anything else. I'm gonna stop right there.
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And also reaffirmed the trueism of Big Footy. When you've painted yourself into a tight corner, wheel out an utterly irrelevant team based sledge.
 
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