Club Mgmt. Bombers look to extend pokies lease

[DERO]

I think it's absolutely disgusting that the club is willing to profit by essentially stealing from its members via pokies.

People still put the money in willingly but yeah, it isn't great.

 

[boncer34]

This is where opportunity cost comes into it, the club by taking the lazy approach to finding revenue might be pleased with that $164 million, but how many memberships has it cost the club because people have lost their money on the pokies instead of buying a membership. It could well be the difference between 70000 members and 80000 or more members.

Hasn't cost us $164m worth.

 

[Maxabillions]

People still put the money in willingly but yeah, it isn't great.

Yeah it’s legal, but it’s proven to be addictive and extremely damaging to the community. It’s the vulnerable and people are who are least able to afford it who are most likely to get addicted. Pretty messed up when those people are likely to be members or supporters of the club. And just generally disappointing that the club would chooses to make money this way.

 

[DERO]

Yeah it’s legal, but it’s proven to be addictive and extremely damaging to the community. It’s the vulnerable and people are who are least able to afford it who are most likely to get addicted. Pretty messed up when those people are likely to be members or supporters of the club. And just generally disappointing that the club would chooses to make money this way.

I don't like it either but the club is looking to looking to scale back its reliance on pokie revenue through other revenue streams. It is not something that can be switched off, it needs to be a planned, staged exit.

The license is up and needs to be renewed soon. This does not give us the time required to step out without significant financial ramifications.

 

[Maxabillions]

I don't like it either but the club is looking to looking to scale back its reliance on pokie revenue through other revenue streams. It is not something that can be switched off, it needs to be a planned, staged exit.

The license is up and needs to be renewed soon. This does not give us the time required to step out without significant financial ramifications.

Yeah fair enough I just hope they are planning to exit rather than just paying lip service to it. Just doesn’t sit very well that the club is involved with it.

 

[DERO]

Yeah fair enough I just hope they are planning to exit rather than just paying lip service to it. Just doesn’t sit very well that the club is involved with it.

It doesn't look great but the fact is the license is up and it hasn't given us the time required to get it done.

I suspect things like e-sports, the expansion and partnership with disability Australia, other commercial opportunities etc will help but it is hard not to be cynical.

 

[Bombermania]

Hasn't cost us $164m worth.

Refer to Ant's comment above.

Maybe not but I would prefer we maximise club membership levels.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Do people really think if we get rid of pokies, people won't piss away their money some other way?

And is everyone who plays the pokies an addict? Do people even know the stats on who plays and how it impacts?

I get we need to be virtuous and the moral bastions of our time, but really how much does society rob people of their agency to give them a free pass?

I get the Inner City Melb brigade will tell me I am heartless blah blah. Just need some perspective and facts, rather than pure emotion. And until I see those facts, all of the negative vibes could well be based on a minority who are addicts and who probably don't contribute as much of the revenue as is believed.

 

[BrunoV]

Don't we have a charter or some commitment written down somewhere about gambling revenue?

Might as well use it as toilet paper along with any other statements written in corporate speak.

 

[Maxabillions]

Do people really think if we get rid of pokies, people won't piss away their money some other way?

And is everyone who plays the pokies an addict? Do people even know the stats on who plays and how it impacts?

I get we need to be virtuous and the moral bastions of our time, but really how much does society rob people of their agency to give them a free pass?

I get the Inner City Melb brigade will tell me I am heartless blah blah. Just need some perspective and facts, rather than pure emotion. And until I see those facts, all of the negative vibes could well be based on a minority who are addicts and who probably don't contribute as much of the revenue as is believed.

Pokie machines are designed to be addictive - https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ripped-by-poker-machine-addiction-report-says

$12BN
a YEAR is spent on the pokies in Australia. 40% of this comes from PROBLEM GAMBLERS.

75%
Of Australia's PROBLEM GAMBLERShave a problem because of pokies in our pubs and clubs.

$2.5 MILLION
is the amount spent by clubs NSW on POLITICAL DONATIONS over the last 15 years.

300K
is the estimated amount of PEOPLE ADDICTED TO POKIES in Australia.

20%
of SUICIDES reported at Victoria's Alfred Hospital are related to a pokies addiction.

http://proudlypokiesfree.com/statistics

Pokies are designed specifically to rob people of their agency by developing addiction.

I'd like to think that EFC would want to be a positive influence in the community, rather than an actively negative influence.

 

[Mercurial89]

Pokie machines are designed to be addictive - https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ripped-by-poker-machine-addiction-report-says

$12BN
a YEAR is spent on the pokies in Australia. 40% of this comes from PROBLEM GAMBLERS.

75%
Of Australia's PROBLEM GAMBLERShave a problem because of pokies in our pubs and clubs.

$2.5 MILLION
is the amount spent by clubs NSW on POLITICAL DONATIONS over the last 15 years.

300K
is the estimated amount of PEOPLE ADDICTED TO POKIES in Australia.

20%
of SUICIDES reported at Victoria's Alfred Hospital are related to a pokies addiction.

http://proudlypokiesfree.com/statistics

Pokies are designed specifically to rob people of their agency by developing addiction.

I'd like to think that EFC would want to be a positive influence in the community, rather than an actively negative influence.

So the club abolishes its pokies practices and the 40% of people what? Stop gambling?

So the majority actually dont have a problem. They get entertainment out of them.
Why cant the 60% continue to use them?

If someone wants to gamble they are allowed to. Just as if the club wants to derive a revenue from that they should be able to.

You cant wrap the whole world in bubble wrap. People need outlets in their lives.
Sure help the people that have lost control and cant stop, put measures in place to protect them. But dont penalize the majority of people.

 

[Bombermania]

Do people really think if we get rid of pokies, people won't piss away their money some other way?

And is everyone who plays the pokies an addict? Do people even know the stats on who plays and how it impacts?

I get we need to be virtuous and the moral bastions of our time, but really how much does society rob people of their agency to give them a free pass?

I get the Inner City Melb brigade will tell me I am heartless blah blah. Just need some perspective and facts, rather than pure emotion. And until I see those facts, all of the negative vibes could well be based on a minority who are addicts and who probably don't contribute as much of the revenue as is believed.

Not sure what the inner city brigade has to do with anything.

The issue I have is not that people are wasting their money but the pokies are pointless and rigged against the punter, unlike any other form of gambling that actually requires some mental thought either picking favorite numbers or following your favorite jockey or trainer or even placing bets on past performance. Pokies are the one form of gambling where you cannot hedge against or to limit loss.

WA does just fine without mass pokies, the only place that should have pokies is the casino because that is where they belong.

 

[Bombermania]

So the club abolishes its pokies practices and the 40% of people what? Stop gambling?

So the majority actually dont have a problem. They get entertainment out of them.
Why cant the 60% continue to use them?

If someone wants to gamble they are allowed to. Just as if the club wants to derive a revenue from that they should be able to.

You cant wrap the whole world in bubble wrap. People need outlets in their lives.
Sure help the people that have lost control and cant stop, put measures in place to protect them. But dont penalize the majority of people.

Sure then they should pick a form of gambling that isn't so rigged against the punter.

 

[Mercurial89]

Not sure what the inner city brigade has to do with anything.

The issue I have is not that people are wasting their money but the pokies are pointless and rigged against the punter, unlike any other form of gambling that actually requires some mental thought either picking favorite numbers or following your favorite jockey or trainer or even placing bets on past performance. Pokies are the one form of gambling where you cannot hedge against or to limit loss.

WA does just fine without mass pokies, the only place that should have pokies is the casino because that is where they belong.

Sure then they should pick a form of gambling that isn't so rigged against the punter.

Bookies price odds specifically so they can make money.
Casinos are full of games with tremendous house edges.

Gambling is something that if you want to do you must be prepared to lose because most of it is against you.

That does not make it wrong and something that should be stamped out.

I dont play pokies,I actually despise the things because by god are they boring. But I know some who love playing on them. Why should they have that outlet taken away because others cant control themselves?

Smoking. I despise it. Do I think it should be banned? No.

People can do what they want to do as long as it does not adversely affect others.
If people want to piss away money then they can do so. If people are that addicted that they have to piss away money they need help but taking the source of it away is not the answer. They will fill that hole with something else.

Pokie revenue reform and standards I can get right behind.
Personally I'd like it legislated that a percentage of revenue derived from the machines is taken away from the organisation and funneled into education and help for those that are addicted.

But I'll never support a ban and I'll never support the push for a business to cut its revenue from a totally legal source because some people think its morally wrong.

 

[ant555]

Refer to Ant's comment above.

Maybe not but I would prefer we maximise club membership levels.

I never play them and to be frank they could all vanish from the face of the earth and it would be a better place.
However in the real world we need to plan the exit , not just for our revenue but also for those who are employed at the various venues who will not have access to the same amount of Jobs.
I also prefer the money going into sporting clubs rather than Bruce Mathisons pocket so he can spend it flying Shiel to Noosa in a private Jet. Lets face it the governments are not going to ban them as they need the tax revenue. Of course in saying that the best outcome would be a total ban.

 

[Bombermania]

I never play them and to be frank they could all vanish from the face of the earth and it would be a better place.
However in the real world we need to plan the exit , not just for our revenue but also for those who are employed at the various venues who will not have access to the same amount of Jobs.
I also prefer the money going into sporting clubs rather than Bruce Mathisons pocket so he can spend it flying Shiel to Noosa in a private Jet. Lets face it the governments are not going to ban them as they need the tax revenue. Of course in saying that the best outcome would be a total ban.

I don't disagree which is why I agreed with your earlier comment to me, we now have this asset and it needs to be handled probably and sure I would prefer the money come to the EFC.

 

[Maxabillions]

So the club abolishes its pokies practices and the 40% of people what? Stop gambling?

So the majority actually dont have a problem. They get entertainment out of them.
Why cant the 60% continue to use them?

If someone wants to gamble they are allowed to. Just as if the club wants to derive a revenue from that they should be able to.

You cant wrap the whole world in bubble wrap. People need outlets in their lives.
Sure help the people that have lost control and cant stop, put measures in place to protect them. But dont penalize the majority of people.

40% is a huge amount. I'm sure a lot in that 60% are on their way to becoming problem gamblers as well.

Anyway obviously Essendon pulling out wouldn't stop the pokies, even though they are a "community leader" and the fact they are seen to be promoting them is not good.

And the issue with pokies is that there is nothing in place to protect people who've lost control, it's the exact opposite - they are designed to make people lose control.

What I really don't like is that the club is profiting from problem gamblers who are likely to be club members and supporters, and likely to be at the lower socio-economic scale.

I really don't like the fact that the club I support is involved in this.

 

[Kettles]

You know, you were making perfect sense about these insidious, life-wreckers and I also admired your difference in sports betting vs poker machines, I hadn't thought of sports betting in that way and I had always lumped this form of gambling in the same basket as poker machines as an equal societal problem. I really enjoyed your brain activity paragraph and pretty much everything else .... until .....
your furphy about Kennett. You really do need to retract your comments, as it was Joan Kirner who introduced poker machines to this state.





Still, this is nothing new... not saying you, necessarily, yours may have been an honest oversight, but loony lefties distort truths daily, it is inherent in their DNA. I have no great love of the Hawthorne Presidente, but as a state, we were down the s-bend and he righted the ship.

I see the train of thought in lumping sports betting, horse betting and pokies under the same umbrella as 'problem gambling' but I think there is an actual difference

with sports betting the addiction component is still revolving around choice - you may need to make money, but you choose to try and win it on the horse.. also, there is an element of skill involved should you be able to use it, there are actual games being played or animals racing that have some form or rhyme or reason to them.. (not condoning sports betting, just saying its a more fair fight and a choice)

The poker machine is a different story all together - it is a highly refined piece of technology specifically designed to addict people and take their money.

Brain activity of people addicted to poker matches the brain activity of people addicted to cocaine. There comes a point when it isn't a choice anymore, its a subconscious need. Everything about the machines has been tailored to hook and take, everything from the music, the particular imagery and trance inducing movements. The perennial near misses..... when you win, your brain gets a hit of dopamine, from this point on, all your brain needs is the further validation to keep that hit going. The machine dresses up losses as wins - to give you the next validation hit. you just spent a $5 spin but got a line of aces, you just won 4$ and the machine starts singing at you and saying well done your a champ!! ....you just lost a dollar.. but you still got your validation dopamine hit.. Studies show the near miss of a close jackpot gives you the same validation and dopamine hit as a win...

In old style machines, there were 3 fixed wheels with a certain number of figures on them - sure it was still set to win at a certain % but it was locked.

The new machines are just random number generators with funny pictures to help make you think its a set of wheels that may turn your way - the machine will constantly show you how close you were to winning big - they just add a few more good pictures to the nearly pile..

Still in the end, the figures are there - the odds are waaaaaay out of you favour - and smart people know that, intelligent people know that - hence why they are all strategically placed in lower social economic areas where people are less likely to know better.

insidious the entire game. and our mate Jeff Kennett, he of the beyond blue fame, the hero... ticked the boxes to let them legally be here. Probably knowing full well once its tendrils have snaked their way through society it can never we undone. Too many industries, governments and communities rely on it now - but I find it weird that most of the community hand outs probably go to the people who have fed the machine anyway

 

[Kettles]

You know, you were making perfect sense about these insidious, life-wreckers and I also admired your difference in sports betting vs poker machines, I hadn't thought of sports betting in that way and I had always lumped this form of gambling in the same basket as poker machines as an equal societal problem. I really enjoyed your brain activity paragraph and pretty much everything else .... until .....
your furphy about Kennett. You really do need to retract your comments, as it was Joan Kirner who introduced poker machines to this state.

View attachment 572497



Apologies, I had not seen the post from Bombermania, I just had to reply to Howard's post as soon as I read it.

 

[Howard Moon]

You know, you were making perfect sense about these insidious, life-wreckers and I also admired your difference in sports betting vs poker machines, I hadn't thought of sports betting in that way and I had always lumped this form of gambling in the same basket as poker machines as an equal societal problem. I really enjoyed your brain activity paragraph and pretty much everything else .... until .....
your furphy about Kennett. You really do need to retract your comments, as it was Joan Kirner who introduced poker machines to this state.

View attachment 572497



Still, this is nothing new... not saying you, necessarily, yours may have been an honest oversight, but loony lefties distort truths daily, it is inherent in their DNA. I have no great love of the Hawthorne Presidente, but as a state, we were down the s-bend and he righted the ship.

Honest mistake, I was a young non voter at the time, it's funny how much of what you hear your parents say seeps in there and hangs around

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Labor/Liberal as if it made any difference. Both parties have been too gutless to shut it down. Libs and their crazy conservatives have blown smoke up the Packers/Williams arses to make thing even easier for that diabolical sh*tstain called Crown.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

You know, you were making perfect sense about these insidious, life-wreckers and I also admired your difference in sports betting vs poker machines, I hadn't thought of sports betting in that way and I had always lumped this form of gambling in the same basket as poker machines as an equal societal problem. I really enjoyed your brain activity paragraph and pretty much everything else .... until .....
your furphy about Kennett. You really do need to retract your comments, as it was Joan Kirner who introduced poker machines to this state.

View attachment 572497



Still, this is nothing new... not saying you, necessarily, yours may have been an honest oversight, but loony lefties distort truths daily, it is inherent in their DNA. I have no great love of the Hawthorne Presidente, but as a state, we were down the s-bend and he righted the ship.

You know, this is a common misconception I would think (and not just with the loony lefties you reference. PS. juvenile name calling like that does your arguments no favours, which is disappointing considering you're putting across some good arguments!). Do you or anyone know why the misconception is that it was Kennett that allowed them in?

 

[Howard Moon]

You know, this is a common misconception I would think (and not just with the loony lefties you reference. PS. juvenile name calling like that does your arguments no favours, which is disappointing considering you're putting across some good arguments!). Do you or anyone know why the misconception is that it was Kennett that allowed them in?

Personally im a swinging voter, not aligned to any particular ideology which I reckon is the only way anyone should be, How can you staunchly attach to a particular party not knowing what their future policy or stance may be??

I assume there was a tide of anti Kennett sentiments at the time with the closing of schools, selling off of state owned companies ect - maybe over time the pokies got lumped in with the overall negative sentiment?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I think the fact that Kennett was an arrogant **** had a bit to do with it.

 

[Toz61]

I could be wrong, but from what I’ve heard, the club is extending their lease at the Melton Country Club, however are looking to remove the pokies from the venue.