Club Mgmt. Bombers look to extend pokies lease

[yodellinhank]

Thought we wre done with pokies.

 

[Howard Moon]

There's quite a funny synergy with the battler addicted to the machines and unable to stop, getting sucked back in....despite saying they are done with it - with the club addicted to the takings, unable to stop taking it, getting sucked back in despite saying they were done.

Who is the more addicted?

 

[ant555]

I see the train of thought in lumping sports betting, horse betting and pokies under the same umbrella as 'problem gambling' but I think there is an actual difference

with sports betting the addiction component is still revolving around choice - you may need to make money, but you choose to try and win it on the horse.. also, there is an element of skill involved should you be able to use it, there are actual games being played or animals racing that have some form or rhyme or reason to them.. (not condoning sports betting, just saying its a more fair fight and a choice)

The poker machine is a different story all together - it is a highly refined piece of technology specifically designed to addict people and take their money.

Brain activity of people addicted to poker matches the brain activity of people addicted to cocaine. There comes a point when it isn't a choice anymore, its a subconscious need. Everything about the machines has been tailored to hook and take, everything from the music, the particular imagery and trance inducing movements. The perennial near misses..... when you win, your brain gets a hit of dopamine, from this point on, all your brain needs is the further validation to keep that hit going. The machine dresses up losses as wins - to give you the next validation hit. you just spent a $5 spin but got a line of aces, you just won 4$ and the machine starts singing at you and saying well done your a champ!! ....you just lost a dollar.. but you still got your validation dopamine hit.. Studies show the near miss of a close jackpot gives you the same validation and dopamine hit as a win...

In old style machines, there were 3 fixed wheels with a certain number of figures on them - sure it was still set to win at a certain % but it was locked.

The new machines are just random number generators with funny pictures to help make you think its a set of wheels that may turn your way - the machine will constantly show you how close you were to winning big - they just add a few more good pictures to the nearly pile..

Still in the end, the figures are there - the odds are waaaaaay out of you favour - and smart people know that, intelligent people know that - hence why they are all strategically placed in lower social economic areas where people are less likely to know better.

insidious the entire game. and our mate Jeff Kennett, he of the beyond blue fame, the hero... ticked the boxes to let them legally be here. Probably knowing full well once its tendrils have snaked their way through society it can never we undone. Too many industries, governments and communities rely on it now - but I find it weird that most of the community hand outs probably go to the people who have fed the machine anyway

I agree with you although I would say sports betting is heading down the same road offering bonus bets or matched bets making it all sound good but they do it because most lose and to make it worse if you win too often they do not take your bets . Poker machines are considered the "easy" way to gamble and you can lose a lot very quickly which is the problem.
I doubt sports betting will ever reach the volume lost but I do think it is going to start eating into the pie a little. It is very easy for our phone addicted youth to download the app and "bet 365 " 24-7 .

 

[ant555]

It was Joan Kirner that allowed the introduction of pokies, sure Jeff allowed them to continue spreading. Before Joan made what she admits was her biggest mistake, to play the pokies you had to travel to towns along the Murray.

I agree with the rest of the comment, as I wrote yesterday, if you take sports bets, say the AFL, you have some control over your bets as it is fairly easy to pick winners as you can look at who is in and out plus previous form, like many people kind of expected Essendon to lose to Carlton, yet don't expect Carlton to win much else.

I think it will be more the fact you can bet on any sport anywhere that will see sports betting become a problem. Yes you have a small amount of control but those predisposed to gambling issues have no control and it is when you are out of control and chasing the money you lose it becomes an issue in the same way as playing 9 lines for 5 dollars a push.
If it was fairly easy to pick winners corporate Bookmakers would not have set up world wide and they certainly would not be betting on football. The money is in people losing. If it is fairly easy to win then there is no money to be made.

 

[Bombermania]

I think it will be more the fact you can bet on any sport anywhere that will see sports betting become a problem. Yes you have a small amount of control but those predisposed to gambling issues have no control and it is when you are out of control and chasing the money you lose it becomes an issue in the same way as playing 9 lines for 5 dollars a push.
If it was fairly easy to pick winners corporate Bookmakers would not have set up world wide and they certainly would not be betting on football. The money is in people losing. If it is fairly easy to win then there is no money to be made.

Absolutely, they finish up chasing their losses, when I say its fairly easy, this year my average weekly tips has been just over 6, which of course also means I am getting about three wrong each week.

 

[CBombers17]

There's quite a funny synergy with the battler addicted to the machines and unable to stop, getting sucked back in....despite saying they are done with it - with the club addicted to the takings, unable to stop taking it, getting sucked back in despite saying they were done.

Who is the more addicted?

You forgot to mention the government hooked on pokie revenue.

Everyone's into it except the thousands of family members who are badly effected by hopelessly addicted gamblers. Hope they enjoy their footy!!

 

[Howard Moon]

I agree with you although I would say sports betting is heading down the same road offering bonus bets or matched bets making it all sound good but they do it because most lose and to make it worse if you win too often they do not take your bets . Poker machines are considered the "easy" way to gamble and you can lose a lot very quickly which is the problem.
I doubt sports betting will ever reach the volume lost but I do think it is going to start eating into the pie a little. It is very easy for our phone addicted youth to download the app and "bet 365 " 24-7 .

As far as I know, any good punter or bookie just needs to find the edge , it's that edge that allows them the chance to win.

In the past bookies themselves or their traders would post their odds, if they got them wrong the punter would smell an edge and go in for the win...until the market rights itself

However I think these days the trader has become obsolete, it all runs off analytics and computers and the betfair market which is the truest there is. It's now just another mechanism running to the finest degree.

Any edge the punter had is probably gone with the human trader.

Now they just prey on the 50 dollar weekend punter who loves a multi...they ply him with multi bets and special odds on unlikely outcomes.

As you said if you become any good the flags will raise and you'll get limited or cut off. Only one side winning in the end, like the pokies.

 

[Howard Moon]

Collingwood cashes out of pokies #AFL: The Magpies have confirmed they are leaving the gaming industry, having agreed to sell their 156 poker machines to the Melbourne Racing Club.... https://t.co/NM7LiciMxe

Who'd have thought it.. the magpies the arbitors of morality. How low we sunk .

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Well done Pies... over to you EFC

 

[Maddogm]

Afaict that has reduced the number of pokies by 0

“This is a prudent commercial decision, one that will strengthen the Collingwood balance sheet significantly,” club president Eddie McGuire said.

 

[DonsRule]

Well done toe Collingwood on this front.


I wonder if this is anyway part of out method, extend our less than well them off? With a lease ending soon they may not be worth all that much re a sell off.

 

[boncer34]

Collingwood cashes out of pokies #AFL: The Magpies have confirmed they are leaving the gaming industry, having agreed to sell their 156 poker machines to the Melbourne Racing Club.... https://t.co/NM7LiciMxe

Who'd have thought it.. the magpies the arbitors of morality. How low we sunk .

Well done Pies.

Handballed the problem somewhere else for a tidy profit. Champions.

 

[Howard Moon]

Well done Pies.

Handballed the problem somewhere else for a tidy profit. Champions.

If only we could do the same. But we are doing a good deed helping the community I guess

 

[boncer34]

If only we could do the same. But we are doing a good deed helping the community I guess

How are we doing a good deed helping the community?

This pretty much reinforces the point made the other day. Us giving up the lease doesnt change a thing.

Except somebody else is making the money.

 

[DonsRule]

How are we doing a good deed helping the community?

This pretty much reinforces the point made the other day. Us giving up the lease doesnt change a thing.

Except somebody else is making the money.

As I said above I wonder how much a lease extension is part of our plan to sell them off in the next few years?

Yes the probabem isn't disappearing it's just being passed on to the next person. But with very little running in the lease they wouldn't be worth much, could be used to invest elsewhere

 

[boncer34]

As I said above I wonder how much a lease extension is part of our plan to sell them off in the next few years?

Yes the probabem isn't disappearing it's just being passed on to the next person. But with very little running in the lease they wouldn't be worth much, could be used to invest elsewhere

Personally I think we're extending to continue to make a profit off them.

 

[Howard Moon]

How are we doing a good deed helping the community?

This pretty much reinforces the point made the other day. Us giving up the lease doesnt change a thing.

Except somebody else is making the money.

We understand the pokies will still exist with or without us.

Wasn't the rationale of doing a morally subjective thing that atleast we get to help the grass roots with the proceeds?

But if we leave and somebody else takes over they are still legally obliged to make the same community payments aren't they?

So we could leave with good conscience knowing the Melton jnr football club will still get their free balls and what not

Instead of the (arguably) I'll gotten gains we can fill the void with any number of good wholesome sponsors like toll or whoever

On a staged pull back of course.

 

[boncer34]

To be honest Howie I dont see the need to rationalise our pokies revenue outside of when trolling the family club so I'm probably not the person you want to have this chat with.

 

[Howard Moon]

To be honest Howie I dont see the need to rationalise our pokies revenue outside of when trolling the family club so I'm probably not the person you want to have this chat with.

Yer I know, it's not economics, it's ideologies... We all know what happens when people try change others core beliefs. Brick wall head butts..

Sometimes just gotta admit the difference will remain and move along.

 

[AcuteWhistle]

I see the train of thought in lumping sports betting, horse betting and pokies under the same umbrella as 'problem gambling' but I think there is an actual difference

with sports betting the addiction component is still revolving around choice - you may need to make money, but you choose to try and win it on the horse.. also, there is an element of skill involved should you be able to use it, there are actual games being played or animals racing that have some form or rhyme or reason to them.. (not condoning sports betting, just saying its a more fair fight and a choice)

The poker machine is a different story all together - it is a highly refined piece of technology specifically designed to addict people and take their money.

Brain activity of people addicted to poker matches the brain activity of people addicted to cocaine. There comes a point when it isn't a choice anymore, its a subconscious need. Everything about the machines has been tailored to hook and take, everything from the music, the particular imagery and trance inducing movements. The perennial near misses..... when you win, your brain gets a hit of dopamine, from this point on, all your brain needs is the further validation to keep that hit going. The machine dresses up losses as wins - to give you the next validation hit. you just spent a $5 spin but got a line of aces, you just won 4$ and the machine starts singing at you and saying well done your a champ!! ....you just lost a dollar.. but you still got your validation dopamine hit.. Studies show the near miss of a close jackpot gives you the same validation and dopamine hit as a win...

In old style machines, there were 3 fixed wheels with a certain number of figures on them - sure it was still set to win at a certain % but it was locked.

The new machines are just random number generators with funny pictures to help make you think its a set of wheels that may turn your way - the machine will constantly show you how close you were to winning big - they just add a few more good pictures to the nearly pile..

Still in the end, the figures are there - the odds are waaaaaay out of you favour - and smart people know that, intelligent people know that - hence why they are all strategically placed in lower social economic areas where people are less likely to know better.

insidious the entire game. and our mate Jeff Kennett, he of the beyond blue fame, the hero... ticked the boxes to let them legally be here. Probably knowing full well once its tendrils have snaked their way through society it can never we undone. Too many industries, governments and communities rely on it now - but I find it weird that most of the community hand outs probably go to the people who have fed the machine anyway

Great post Howie.

I follow a couple of Madden streamers on Twitch & it's hard not to notice that there are also many people there streaming their online pokie machine pursuits 24/7. So I took a look & by jingo, they always seem to win. It's as obvious as dogs balls it's all rigged & they are just fronts for the casinos yet these people have thousands of followers & carry on like it's all a huge surprise, wow I just got lucky there, when they clean up. Made me sick so I challenged a couple of them in chat & of course it's all legit, they are just on a good run. Mkay.

ps, I bet on the horses for years but that's all just another scam, not as bad as pokies but not far off it.

 

[yodellinhank]

Collingwood cashes out of pokies #AFL: The Magpies have confirmed they are leaving the gaming industry, having agreed to sell their 156 poker machines to the Melbourne Racing Club.... https://t.co/NM7LiciMxe

Who'd have thought it.. the magpies the arbitors of morality. How low we sunk .

Heard McGuire on the wireless explaining how it was "an opportunity" to get out, that he wasn't going to bash an industry they've been a part of for over 25 years and deflected away from making it any kind of moral stance.

 

[boncer34]

Much like the argument Americans make about guns. Meanwhile people are getting slaughtered

Your leap of logic here is awesome.

And totally irrational.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Your leap of logic here is awesome.

And totally irrational.

Much like yours. “I know this is harmful to people but if I don’t do it some else will.” What logic is that?

 

[boncer34]

Much like yours. “I know this is harmful to people but if I don’t do it some else will.” What logic is that?

If we dont own them someone else will.

It is that simple.

You want to argue the morality, which is fine, but completely separate to logic.

And not something I'm interested in doing.

Especially when your argument begins with creating a parallel that doesn't exist.

 

[Maddogm]

Much like yours. “I know this is harmful to people but if I don’t do it some else will.” What logic is that?

You want them sold off to someone else but continuing to exist. Zero reduction in impact but you get to stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Campaigning against the club owning them achieves nothing, if you want achieve something campaign for the (state?) government to ban them.