Bones Jones VS USADA

DazalenkoUBewty

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thats all well and good, but those random tests are extremely limited. With money, a good doc and an extremely regimented program, you shouldn't get caught; unless something goes wrong.
That might be true, but he was still clean in the 7 random tests. Why did his doc fail him when it mattered most (when they knew he'd be tested)?
 
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Barry Roundhouse

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That might be true, but he was still clean in the 7 random tests. Why did his doc fail him when it mattered most (when they knew he'd be tested)?
a new supply of whatever he was taking that was tainted by something else seems to be the most realistic.

I 100% believe he wasn't taking what he got caught with... but a tainted illegal drug seems to be the most likely. Maybe it was in the cocaine (doubt it), maybe it was in a designer drug that a test doesn't exist for (my hunch)
 

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PoppedCorn

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Runs in the family.....

Piss hot in today's world and you're behind the times
Guilty as
C'mon.....
 

deklares

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Definitely employ Malki Kawa if you’re a drug cheat.
 
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phantom13

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It's just a fact.
What do I make of it..not sure. But he was clean for 7 random tests, and then fails the one test which he knows is going to happen.
I'm not going to guess what went down, but I can see how those facts help his case.
I’d say the fact is he failed a test, the detail is he passed a lot of others. The suspension is what it is. I’ve long held the opinion they are all doping at the top level. We don’t know all the details of why his suspension (for a second drug offense? Could be wrong on that one) was watered down and frankly I don’t care much.
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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Runs in the family.....

Piss hot in today's world and you're behind the times
Guilty as
C'mon.....
Jones is good enough without having to take anything.

Explain why his random tests were clear, yet the test that he defo knew he'd get was positive.
I’d say the fact is he failed a test, the detail is he passed a lot of others. The suspension is what it is. I’ve long held the opinion they are all doping at the top level. We don’t know all the details of why his suspension (for a second drug offense? Could be wrong on that one) was watered down and frankly I don’t care much.
U don't care :) You raced back in here pretty quickly once the JJ news happened.

Is it fact that he didn't test positive to the random tests?
Is it fact that he got done in the 24 hr period leading up to his fight?

Do you really believe that Conor, Cormier, Stipe, Mighty mouse, and everyone else at the top is doping?
 

phantom13

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Jones is good enough without having to take anything.

Explain why his random tests were clear, yet the test that he defo knew he'd get was positive.

U don't care :) You raced back in here pretty quickly once the JJ news happened.

Is it fact that he didn't test positive to the random tests?
Is it fact that he got done in the 24 hr period leading up to his fight?

Do you really believe that Conor, Cormier, Stipe, Mighty mouse, and everyone else at the top is doping?
Is he? How do we know that? Jones is the Goat in my eyes but he may have been doing his whole career, it only takes one failure to taint a career, look at Anderson.

You keep banging on about how many tests he passed, you realise he could pass a million tests and the only one that matters is the one that fails? The circumstances of the when and the why don’t matter, he had banned shit in his system during a test in comp, doesn’t matter when he doesn’t and it doesn’t matter when he does and isn’t tested.

Think I openly said I don’t care, he’s fighting and I’ll watch, I’ve advocated for a while now to just let em do whatever they want, especially given the attitude they have about suspensions and punishments.

It’s fact he failed a test, I don’t care how many he passed cause they don’t matter at this point he’s an athlete who is in charge of his body and what he takes, one failed test is enough.

Yes I do, I have no proof and I have no interest in entering into a debate about it cause it’s just an opinion.
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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Is he? How do we know that? Jones is the Goat in my eyes but he may have been doing his whole career, it only takes one failure to taint a career, look at Anderson.

You keep banging on about how many tests he passed, you realise he could pass a million tests and the only one that matters is the one that fails? The circumstances of the when and the why don’t matter, he had banned shit in his system during a test in comp, doesn’t matter when he doesn’t and it doesn’t matter when he does and isn’t tested.

Think I openly said I don’t care, he’s fighting and I’ll watch, I’ve advocated for a while now to just let em do whatever they want, especially given the attitude they have about suspensions and punishments.

It’s fact he failed a test, I don’t care how many he passed cause they don’t matter at this point he’s an athlete who is in charge of his body and what he takes, one failed test is enough.

Yes I do, I have no proof and I have no interest in entering into a debate about it cause it’s just an opinion.
Cool
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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Anyway, what ever happened has happened. The guy has been fined and has served his time. It's time to look forward to his future.
 

JG22

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a new supply of whatever he was taking that was tainted by something else seems to be the most realistic.

I 100% believe he wasn't taking what he got caught with... but a tainted illegal drug seems to be the most likely. Maybe it was in the cocaine (doubt it), maybe it was in a designer drug that a test doesn't exist for (my hunch)
I thought it was turinabol which is some sort of common anabolic steroid
 

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Jones is good enough without having to take anything.

Explain why his random tests were clear, yet the test that he defo knew he'd get was positive.

U don't care :) You raced back in here pretty quickly once the JJ news happened.

Is it fact that he didn't test positive to the random tests?
Is it fact that he got done in the 24 hr period leading up to his fight?

Do you really believe that Conor, Cormier, Stipe, Mighty mouse, and everyone else at the top is doping?
Jon Jones is a 31 year old man, with a lot of disposable income, and plenty of resources available to him.

No matter which way you cut it, the guy has been suspended twice by USADA.

At which point does Jon Jones take responsibility for himself?
 

PoppedCorn

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Jones is good enough without having to take anything.

Explain why his random tests were clear, yet the test that he defo knew he'd get was positive.

U don't care :) You raced back in here pretty quickly once the JJ news happened.

Is it fact that he didn't test positive to the random tests?
Is it fact that he got done in the 24 hr period leading up to his fight?

Do you really believe that Conor, Cormier, Stipe, Mighty mouse, and everyone else at the top is doping?
Has Conor or mighty mouse been busted?
Nope so you have to go with what evidence you have
Jones has pissed hot twice
So has his brother once
I didn't race back anywhere quick
I check for updates daily and get alerts for certain threads, like most people do who frequent here
The fact is he pissed dirty
How many days between th3 seven tests he passed in the lead up?
Its out the system in a day or so depending on the masking taken
Can be easy to run the gauntlet for a few days each fortnight or so, can always hide under a ring I guess

Supplements excuse
Never tested positive in the lead up but pissed dirty on fight night
So never took supps until the day before????

Lol
Dirty
Most people prob are
But he caught, twice

Should've got the full whack of 4
 

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DazalenkoUBewty

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Jon Jones is a 31 year old man, with a lot of disposable income, and plenty of resources available to him.

No matter which way you cut it, the guy has been suspended twice by USADA.

At which point does Jon Jones take responsibility for himself?
31..and?
He's obviously been suspended twice, and he's copped the punishment.

I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty of knowingly taking peds. Only Jones knows the truth of what happened. But he's done his time so I'm very happy to move on from this and hopefully see him back in the octagon a bit more regularly from here on.
 
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phantom13

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31..and?
He's obviously been suspended twice, and he's copped the punishment.

I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty of knowingly taking peds. Only Jones knows the truth of what happened. But he's done his time so I'm very happy to move on from this and hopefully see him back in the octagon a bit more regularly from here on.
I think you’re missing most people’s point. His crime carries up to a four year suspension (from memory) he got 18 months which coincidentally coincides nicely with him being available for the msg ufc.

I’m with you on wanting him back fighting but it stinks to high hell.
 

phantom13

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It’s actually worth reading up about the snitching clause and his reduction because of it. It would seem to imply he got 30 months off for snitching (3 months for reduced complicit ness in the doping). That sounds to me like he was 100% doping and assisted authorities with investigations into other dopers so substantially they took more than half of his original suspension away.
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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I think you’re missing most people’s point. His crime carries up to a four year suspension (from memory) he got 18 months which coincidentally coincides nicely with him being available for the msg ufc.

I’m with you on wanting him back fighting but it stinks to high hell.
I'm not missing the point.
All crimes have a max penalty, though copping a max penalty is kinda rare.
18 months is a long enough penalty imo.

Is Jones fighting on the MSG card?
 

phantom13

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I'm not missing the point.
All crimes have a max penalty, though copping a max penalty is kinda rare.
18 months is a long enough penalty imo.

Is Jones fighting on the MSG card?
That’s fine in your opinion, max penalties are usually issued for repeat offenders, people with criminal history and ongoing signs of repeat behavior. Jon would be the poster child for the above so I think in most people’s eyes the 18 months (from an original 48 months) is grossly unjust. I’m with you, get him back, but I can also see that his punishment doesn’t come close to covering the crime and I can see why others think it’s a joke.

I’m not sure if any fights have been announced for the MSG card yet, he might not fight on it all, but you’ve got your head in the sand if you can’t see how that looks.
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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That’s fine in your opinion, max penalties are usually issued for repeat offenders, people with criminal history and ongoing signs of repeat behavior. Jon would be the poster child for the above so I think in most people’s eyes the 18 months (from an original 48 months) is grossly unjust. I’m with you, get him back, but I can also see that his punishment doesn’t come close to covering the crime and I can see why others think it’s a joke.

I’m not sure if any fights have been announced for the MSG card yet, he might not fight on it all, but you’ve got your head in the sand if you can’t see how that looks.
Get ya head out of the sand, son. It doesn't matter how it looks, he's Not fighting on the MSG card.
 

PoppedCorn

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So a cheat and then squeals on everyone else who is cheating or dealing?

Tainted supps he reckons, so doesn't take gear but squeeled on others that do
C'mon
Sure a lot are doing it but fmd throwing others under a bus because you couldn't get your stack timing right is a bit low
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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Good.. Sounds like Jones didn't rat on anyone.. He merely elaborated on his own experience, etc.

Looking forward to hearing from him, whenever that is.
 

Barry Roundhouse

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Good.. Sounds like Jones didn't rat on anyone.. He merely elaborated on his own experience, etc.

Looking forward to hearing from him, whenever that is.
https://www.mmafighting.com/2018/9/25/17898654/agent-malki-kawa-says-jon-jones-is-not-a-snitch-usada-offers-clarification

There are two avenues in 10.6.1 of the UFC Anti-Doping Policy which allow for a reduction in sanctions: 1) an individual can get a sanction reduction if he or she provides information that results in USADA or another anti-doping agency bringing forward an Anti-Doping Policy Violation against other athletes or support personnel; and/or 2) a reduction can be given if the information results in a criminal or disciplinary body bringing forward a criminal offense against individuals. Importantly, if the athlete or support personnel fails to continue to cooperate and provide credible substantial assistance, USADA will reinstate the original sanction. These rules set out in 10.6.1 are crystal clear and if they are not met, an individual would not be considered for a reduction based on substantial assistance. Because the substantial assistance relates to ongoing matters, USADA is unable to provide any further information.
According to the UFC’s anti-doping policy, someone giving “substantial assistance” must “fully disclose in a signed written statement all information he or she possesses in relation to Anti-Doping Policy Violations” and “fully cooperate with the investigation and adjudication of any case related to that information, including, for example, presenting testimony at a hearing if requested to do so by USADA or hearing panel. Further, the information provided must be credible and must comprise an important part of any case which is initiated or, if no case is initiated, must have provided a sufficient basis on which a case could have been brought.”

Article 10.6.1.1 states that a fighter who provides “substantial assistance” must continue to “cooperate and to provide the complete and credible information” or risk getting the original sanction reinstated
maybe he hasn't snitched yet, but it clearly seems if he hasnt, he has fully committed to being a snitch in the future, if the need arises.

either that or USADA is corrupt as fu** and this is the only way they could justify giving him a much lesser suspension within their rules, where they don't have to give us the direct reasoning

- both are equally likely imo
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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https://www.mmafighting.com/2018/9/25/17898654/agent-malki-kawa-says-jon-jones-is-not-a-snitch-usada-offers-clarification





maybe he hasn't snitched yet, but it clearly seems if he hasnt, he has fully committed to being a snitch in the future, if the need arises.

either that or USADA is corrupt as **** and this is the only way they could justify giving him a much lesser suspension within their rules, where they don't have to give us the direct reasoning

- both are equally likely imo
I doubt usada is corrupt, Baz. For them to be corrupt they would have had to take a large chunk of cash from the ufc, yes? The ufc aren't doing that, imo.

I think the smaller penalty came about from the evidence provided by Jones, and the fact that Jones has opened up on his personal doings.
 

Barry Roundhouse

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I doubt usada is corrupt, Baz. For them to be corrupt they would have had to take a large chunk of cash from the ufc, yes? The ufc aren't doing that, imo.
The UFC hire USADA at a cost in the millions per year. I couldn't rule out backroom politics.

Allegations have been made against WADA and USADA fairly regularly. Even if it is just a lack of transparency and consistency.

Icarus shook my confidence in anti-doping organisations fairly heavily too.

I think the smaller penalty came about from the evidence provided by Jones, and the fact that Jones has opened up on his personal doings.
What could he possibly bring to the table that warranted such a heavy reduction, especially considering he denies using?

why couldn't such a reduction apply to Machida? They threw the book at him.
 
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