Bottoming out to win premierships

[sammm]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Hawthorn didn't tank they just gutted the club and started from scratch.

hawthorn did both. they ruthlessly traded everitt, hay and thomspon. they got rid of older players and by doing so tanked for two years.

they were hard and ruthless in their approach.

as a result, they will be in the top 2 for the next few years.
even this year they state in the papers this morning that they will be aggresssive in the draft.

 

[Ellroy]

Out of the team we had in the GF only Buddy, Rough, Ellis and possibly Croad? were top 10 picks that we actually recieved for being crap. Only 18% of the team.

The rest we traded for either picks or players. So your thread is stupid.

What if you did not finish down near the bottom in 2004, but around 9th or 10th spot as in 02 and 03, and your first draft pick was pick 9 or 10? You would probably have missed on Buddy and Roughhead? 188 goals in a season is hard to find from Williams etc

 

[Ordovician]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

hawthorn did both. they ruthlessly traded everitt, hay and thomspon. they got rid of older players and by doing so tanked for two years.

they were hard and ruthless in their approach.

as a result, they will be in the top 2 for the next few years.
even this year they state in the papers this morning that they will be aggresssive in the draft.

At least try and get some of your facts straight before you post.

Everitt wanted to be traded to Sydney at the end of 2006 because he wanted "to get a two year contract". The next year the Hawks made the finals

Thompson asked to be traded at the end 2004 and deal was cut with the Kangaroos. The hawks were poor the next year, but the tankers that year were the Pies who tanked the second half of the year to secure Thomas and Pendlebury a meagre two years after losing back to back Grand Finals.

And Hawthorn hardly tanked in 2006 winning its last four games to rise from 14 to 11 above Kangaroos, Brisbane, Port on the ladder whilst the aforementioned tanked their way to better draft picks in the 2006 "super draft".

Remember that year? Essendon and Carlton tanking and playing a draw aginst each other in the "Bryce Gibbs Cup".

They "ruthlessly" traded Hay and Lonie and cut short Nick Holland's career. It is doubtful that cutting players of that ilk could be construed as tanking, whereas trading Crawford Hodge or Mitchell for draft picks would be definately trying to bottom out.

 

[NQTIGER]

That should be the agenda for all clubs! Get the most that you can while giving up as little as possible. The resentment is borne out of jealousy, not some innate desire for all clubs to receive a 'fair' deal.

Chris Judd anyone?

congrats to the hawks for hard nosed good management, which is so unlike the tanking we have witnessed in the last couple of years

 

[NQTIGER]

I agree that there are a lot of things required to win the premiership.

In Brisbane's case one could look at

1) recruiting leigh matthews as coach
2) salary cap concessions
3) good and clever recruiting

amongst many other reasons.


One could say that West Coast did "bottom out" - remember they had only 5 wins in 2001 and obtained Judd as a result.


There are so many ingredients required to win a premiership - including placing players in the right positions. If Hodge was still a midfielder Hawthorn would not have won that g/final. His quarterback role in the g/final was an excellent team placement decision. Luck, courageous decisions with recruiting and coaching... etc etc.. so many ingredients.

in Brisbanes case one word FITZROY

 

[Omegaman]

Sure they took full advantage of their draft picks when they had them but (sing along all you folks playing at home) draft picks are only one piece of the equation.
The Hawks also invested faith in a coach the most outsiders regarded as a stopgap (after all, they supposedly "lost" the Eade/Wallace lottery that was going at the time), put the right people in the right positions to build a winning team and devised a game strategy that played to their strengths. Everyone knew their job and did it to the best of their ability.

Draft picks alone don't give you that.

 

[Whispers]

Where were you last year? Geelong never 'tanked'. Infact, they haven't finished bottom 4 since the 70's IIRC.

I think our highest draft pick since 1991 has been pick 5. I think it comes down to good drafting and trading really. Fair enough it helps having the first few picks but Hawthorn have picked up some ripper picks and trades.
Brent Guerra - Pick #3 in 2005 Pre-season draft
Brad Sewell - Elevated rookie in 2003
2005 - Traded Jonathon Hay for pick 18 - Max Bailey
2005 - Traded Nathan Lonie for pick 14 - Grant Birchall
2004 - Trade Nathan Thompson for pick 10 (upgraded to 7 through Bo Dixon trade) - Jordan Lewis, and pick 26 - Matt Little
2001 - Traded Trent Croad for pick 1 - Luke Hodge

Combine with the draft picks they had around that time and you success.
Geelongs draft and trading is pretty good as well but I'll go through that another time....

 

[xyakks]

I am guessing - and it is only a wild guess - that you aren't a Carlton supporter>?

Correct me if I am wrong, but something in your post seems to indicate you aren't a Bluesman... hehehe..

A 1.5M interest loan - so that is our crime? - what about North, Melbourne etc who get funds handed out to them through the equalisation policy? that is ok I am guessing but a 1.5M loan isn't ok because it is Carlton.


kicked Kennedy to the kerbside?

what did Hawthorn do with Croad, Nathan Thompson and John Barker? Trades happen, but I guess only Carlton trades are sinister and naughty.... or spooky...

We traded Croad in 2001. The move was a horrible one in our history. Our fans rallied against it but in the end it went through. Croad spent 2 years at Freo and we also lost McPharlane. We picked up Hodge and Mitch and traded to get Croad back.

Croady is one of the most popular players at the club and it was one of the best sights for our fans to see him winning a premiership in the brown and gold.

Nathan Thompson asked to be traded and so we traded him to the team of his choice.

John Barker was injury prone from 2002-2006 and hardly got on the field. He retired as an old man in the last game of 2006 where we thrashed the cats and he kicked an inspirational goal. He was a very popular player at the club.

 

[xyakks]

What if you did not finish down near the bottom in 2004, but around 9th or 10th spot as in 02 and 03, and your first draft pick was pick 9 or 10? You would probably have missed on Buddy and Roughhead? 188 goals in a season is hard to find from Williams etc

Would have taken a miracle. That year we had the most injuries of any club. Injuries that killed the careers of a few players. Guys that were our best and most valuable players openly stating that they wanted out of the club. Crawf almost walked out. Schwab got the boot.

The squad that we had in 2004 turned into a rabble. We made some positive moves though and from then on, every single season we have improved.

 

[TigerCleavage]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Hawthorn earn their flags, Carltank cheat for them.

 

[harmesy 37]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Hawthorn earn their flags, Carltank cheat for them.

yes, of course this makes sense.

Carlton deliberately lost 80 plus games in the last 5 years just so they could get the number one picks.

Wiggins, Whitnall, Livingston, Longmuir, De Luca, Sporn, Chambers and French were/are secretely very good players. Better than Ablett, Bartell, Hodge and Franklin.

Shhhhh... don't tell anyone. You are onto us.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Carlton should just buy an entire list. Maybe they can just buy all Geelong's players and see if they can make top 4?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

yes, of course this makes sense.

Carlton deliberately lost 80 plus games in the last 5 years just so they could get the number one picks.

Wiggins, Whitnall, Livingston, Longmuir, De Luca, Sporn, Chambers and French were/are secretely very good players. Better than Ablett, Bartell, Hodge and Franklin.

Shhhhh... don't tell anyone. You are onto us.

Every club has their hacks. Even Geelong. When your own supporters cheer for the opposition, when you take Fevola off the park if he's on fire, when you let Travis Johnstone run around unmanned, then you're tanking. Even KB can't disagree with that.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Not to mention

Sewell, Young, Mitchell, Osborne, Brown, Ladson, Guerra, Dew, Taylor, Renouf, Murphy, Gilham, all either rejects, rookie list recruits or low draft picks. Several of them were in the votes on GF day.

 

[Messenger]

Spot on.

In round 21 2005 against Richmond the Hawks were up by 7 goals during the match but ended up somehow losing.

Can you read? Is a young team falling away after half time proof of a deliberate strategy to lose? Wouldn't we have been able to hide the "tanking" better by not beating Essendon the previous week?

 

[dumb]

you know you're in it for long-term success when you throw a grand final for a better pick. i applaud geelong's commitment to sustained excellence.

 

[vossdaboss]

The Blues will not win a premiership in the next 50+ years..... BOOKMARK IT!

This is a team that was taken over by one of the most corrupt individuals in Australian history. A team full of backstabbers, and dare I say it.... just expect a whole lot of them to go bald over the summer with the new drug testing on hair samples!

I think Carlton supporters are more interested in Fev kicking 100 goals a season than winning games and making finals.... the ultimate losers mentality!

GO LIONS! 2001-2002-2003.... cmon yeah baby

VOSS IS THE BOSS!

 

[dumb]

The Blues will not win a premiership in the next 50+ years..... BOOKMARK IT!

This is a team that was taken over by one of the most corrupt individuals in Australian history. A team full of backstabbers, and dare I say it.... just expect a whole lot of them to go bald over the summer with the new drug testing on hair samples!

I think Carlton supporters are more interested in Fev kicking 100 goals a season than winning games and making finals.... the ultimate losers mentality!

GO LIONS! 2001-2002-2003.... cmon yeah baby

VOSS IS THE BOSS!

it just adds to the genius of judd. nobody can accuse him of shaving off his hair if he intentionally goes bald.

 

[dipper86]

Yeah Hawthorn were really trying to win games when they were playing Zac Dawson at Full Back.

Do you mean in 2006, when Hawthorn finished on 9 wins? oh dear, you have failed miserably

 

[harmesy 37]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

Every club has their hacks. Even Geelong. When your own supporters cheer for the opposition, when you take Fevola off the park if he's on fire, when you let Travis Johnstone run around unmanned, then you're tanking. Even KB can't disagree with that.

Funny stuff. If every club has their hacks then Carlton between 2002 and 2007 had double the amount of most other clubs. Most other clubs play 3 or 4 hacks at most -whilst at least half of our team were hacks.

Yes, you are right. "Even KB (A Richmond legend and past player) can't disagree with that." lol.



Fevola was injured in round 21, 2007, but i guess that is tanking by getting injured. He deliberately got injured by putting his foot under a bus perhaps?

http://sportsaustralia.com/articles/news.php?id=2088
Carlton vs Kangaroos
Telstra Dome, Melbourne
12:10pm (WA), 1:40pm (SA), 2:10pm (EST)

Team Changes for round 21 -2007.

Carlton: IN - Hampson, Russell. OUT - Blackwell, Fevola (adductor).


I'll tell you what would be tanking - if Carlton in round 22, 2007 played
Stevens in the backline, Scotland on the bench, marc murphy on the bench, jarrad waite on the bench, bryce gibbs on the bench for 80% of the time and Carrazzo up forward.



If this happened in the match against Melbourne last year - get back to me.
If it didn't - stop your whinnnnning.

 

[Spook]

When Fremantle want to trade you trade. So were wern't bottoming out it only looked that way.

Thanks for Hodge Mitchell and Croad back.

We will take McPharlin back as well for Boyle & Moss if you want to trade

 

[Kevin Rudd]

Labor bottomed out before winning the election. We managed a few high draft picks between 1996-2007 like Julia Gillard, and myself, and rebuilt a premiership team.

Jeff Kennet and Hawthorn followed my model, and won the premiership.

And did I mention I totally support working with Mr Turnbull on a bipartisan level to solve the economic crisis. In fact, I will be following whatever he says.

Kevin 747.

 

[unstable punt]

Re: It's official. TANKING = PREMIERSHIPS

and the Blues are next...

followed by the Demons in 4-5 years