Society/Culture Bourke st incident ( again )

[Snake_Baker]

Okay, if you're telling the truth and are not exaggerating - what would you have done instead?

He's not exaggerating. The response was below amateurish, as was the perp with the knife.

If he didn't want to shoot, then the moment one of those downwards lunges bottomed out he should have come forward on the armed hand and held it down whilst his partner moved in. The knife would have been effectively immobilized. The cops panicked.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Did those police have tasers?

 

[smokingjacket]

The short of it is, if a knife-wielding threat is close enough to be swinging at you a few times before anyone has a pistol out - it is bad policing. Altruistic motives or not, it is what it is.

Fair, but policing problem meth and alcohol areas inevitably comes with violence directed at police, sometimes with knives, bottles and other makeshift weapons. You make a reasonable point that it may have been poor situation technique but I think it's a very good thing that VICpol are erring on the side of restraint when confronted with lower grade threat weapons, the alternative is a lot more shootings.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Using a pistol to stop someone with a knife isn't excessive force. It's standard.

A half decent combatant could have neutralized the knife without using the gun.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Using a pistol to stop someone with a knife isn't excessive force. It's standard.

I fully agree, but there is a vocal group in the community who do not. I put part of the blame on society scrutinising every act of police use of force, forever claiming that they are too brutal.

We are basing our opinions on video phone footage from the sidelines, not vision from the copper's perspective, who may have been surrounded by innocent bystanders.

 

[ShanDog]

Okay, let's say that you're telling the truth and are not exaggerating - what would you have done instead?

It would be good to see if there was any earlier footage of the incident to determine just how much time the police had before the attack shown. I am going to assume it was at least long enough to know the guy was armed with a knife.

So from that assumption, as soon as the knife is identified, it's time to pull out the pistols and control the situation. The presence of bystanders is even more reason to do so, unless you want the attacker to be left with the option of grabbing a would-be hero or scared and frozen person as a hostage (or just attacking them too).

You issue commands. If old mate moves within a distance that makes him a threat to you or another person, you fire.

That's it. There's no more effective way to deal with it than that.

And if I hear the word 'taser' I'll vomit.

 

[maryjames]

Send all his family back home. Apparently all his family is known to ASIO.

 

[ShanDog]

I fully agree, but there is a vocal group in the community who do not. I put part of the blame on society scrutinising every act of police use of force, forever claiming that they are too brutal.

We are basing our opinions on video phone footage from the sidelines, not vision from the copper's perspective, who may have been surrounded by innocent bystanders.

* them. They aren't risking their lives. People can cry 'excessive force' as much as they want. Doesn't make it true.

 

[William Wonka]

The rounds they use are designed to thump the body and not travel through it. They are not high velocity rounds. The public were not at harm once the perp was a few feet away.

Unless they miss that is...

Should had been a head shot.

Too quick.

 

[Thrawn]

including needlessly putting themselves in harm's way

That's expected of them though. There'll always be risks when protecting people from deranged maniacs.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Fair, but policing problem meth and alcohol areas inevitably comes with violence directed at police, sometimes with knives, bottles and other makeshift weapons. You make a reasonable point that it may have been poor situation technique but I think it's a very good thing that VICpol are erring on the side of restraint when confronted with lower grade threat weapons, the alternative is a lot more shootings.

On the flip side, police are also human beings who presumably also have loved ones and when police officers err on the side of restraint, they are risking their own lives in the process. You can still be stabbed to death with a "lower grade weapon". Really don't think it's reasonable to expect police to put their own lives on the line like that.

 

[Smartest Brain]

I was a nurse for 8 years chummo.Looks the most likely explanation but no one knows anything yet ,like I said.

"Janitor says planes that collided with twin towers was caused by faulty jet engines not terrorists, more news on this development at 6"

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

He's not exaggerating. The response was below amateurish, as was the perp with the knife.

If he didn't want to shoot, then the moment one of those downwards lunges bottomed out he should have come forward on the armed hand and held it down whilst his partner moved in. The knife would have been effectively immobilized. The cops panicked.

May all police should have S.A.S-level training in hand-to-hand and disarming tactics. It might make for less incidents like this one and further keep our police forces safe.

 

[its free real estate]

I can’t believe this is being called a lone wolf attack. His brother and sister in law have been charged separately on terror offences.

 

[Opts]

Yes, halfway between Swanston and Russell.

The old VicPol foot patrol office used to be located right there. I worked there for a couple of years.

 

[ShanDog]

Do you think Australia will never follow what the UK has done with the police? They will probably try to blame legal gun owners before Aussie cops get their guns pulled but this is not far away for us either.

No idea. I think we pretty much have it right. Not a massive fan of some police forces carrying long-arms around in cars though. Seems unnecessary and contributing to the equivalent concept of 'militarisation' for a police force. 'Policitisation'? lol

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Send all his family back home. Apparently all his family is known to ASIO.

If they're all fundies, I might well agree with you.

 

[Taylor]

What disarm techniques? That's not a thing.

SOP with a knife (a lethal weapon) is to draw weapon. The first cop didn't have one out for whatever reason (maybe he didn't know until it was too close) and the second one didn't draw until old mate had already taken 2-3 swings. Way too slow. There's a '15 foot' rule. If someone with a knife is within 15 feet, they can potentially kill you, even when you have a weapon pointed at them for some of the reasons I posted earlier about 'shooting at the leg'.

What if they've been told not to inflame tensions by shooting people?

 

[Tassie27]

They are usually a lot of Chinese students across the road having an arvo smoke out the front of the university at this time. Can be really crowded there. Surprised he didn't pick that side. They are probably wondering what the **** have they have ran into in Melbourne.

Monash College is situated right there and is an international bridging establishment for entry into university. I work at Monash College but in Clayton. We received an email this afternoon saying that all students and teachers were accounted for and that they were able to evacuate through the back to Little Bourke street.

 

[Chism]

Police also stating the man was known to Police due to family terrorism links and was on the ASIO watch list.

Not good.

 

[ShanDog]

Fair, but policing problem meth and alcohol areas inevitably comes with violence directed at police, sometimes with knives, bottles and other makeshift weapons. You make a reasonable point that it may have been poor situation technique but I think it's a very good thing that VICpol are erring on the side of restraint when confronted with lower grade threat weapons, the alternative is a lot more shootings.

I agree, really. Given a choice between being too trigger-happy and too slow on the draw, I'd have to go with the latter. You can't take back a bullet once it's been fired.

 

[Snake_Baker]

May all police should have S.A.S-level training in hand-to-hand and disarming tactics. It might make for less incidents like this one and further keep our police forces safe.

FFS, this didn't require anything special.

If cops aren't taught basic hand to hand defence techniques (AND THEY ARE) then we may as well not have cops.

 

[tandino]

I don't know guys, probably too early to play Monday morning quarterback on this one.

You have a maniac, a trolley guy, chair guy, someone carrying a traffic cone weight and some moron just strolling past in the immediate vicinity, plus 50+ bystanders just down the road.

End result is situation brought to a permanent conclusion, with no other casualties.

C+ is still a pass mark.

 

[its free real estate]

If they're all fundies, I might well agree with you.

They are.

 

[Smartest Brain]

May all police should have S.A.S-level training in hand-to-hand and disarming tactics. It might make for less incidents like this one and further keep our police forces safe.

They are already pretty well trained in killing. The problem in this case and many cases is the amount of people around with cameras that make every move these cops do criticized to the 100th level with millisecond accuracy.

Yes the cops should have killed this guy quicker, but given how soft society is these days I can understand why they let the situation develop like they did and endangered their and others lives in attempts to not kill him.