Bowdens Comments

[Rayzorwire]

You seem to have taken on a self-appointed capacity to declare whether or not players feel shame, as if you alone have been blessed with some kind of special insight of which the rest of us have unfortunately been deprived.

Bowden clearly doesn't feel shame - as you yourself state, he's been dropped numerous times because of his bad attitude and selfishness - a player who feels shame and acts on it doesn't need to be treated like that the first time, let alone multiple times.

You also have clearly pre-established an opinion of Joel Bowden, and nothing said or done can alter that. Game-winning marks running into back with the flight of the ball, game-winning goals with the last kick of the match, preparedness to get crunched when backing back into oncoming traffic, ability to hit targets with far more consistency than any of his teammates, preparedness to play through injuries which would oust lesser blokes, and a resilient game-saving temperament when many around him have anxiety meltdowns. None of these will budge you from you stubborn preconception.

Should we expect less from a senior player with his talent on his wage?

And let's be clear about this, from 250 games for the club, the 50 games where he played at somewhere close to his actual ability (ability he never fulfilled because he's a lazy, selfish coaster) don't carry a great deal of weight compared to the 200 lazy, selfish, worthless games.

But if I could go All-Australian as many times as I could be dropped throughout my career, I'd hang my boots up at the end of it all with more than a reasonable level of individual satisfaction.

No wonder you're defending him, you have the same mindset!

'I had a few decent seasons where I played at 80% of my ability and was self-admittedly awesome, and 11 others where I played at 40% of my ability, coasted through entire seasons, showed zero leadership, and didn't get within bulls roar of justifying the money I took from ordinary people who do it far harder every day. I'm happy with that.'

**** you Joel.

To make a public pledge to beat Geelong at Geelong in their current form and composition is a daft idea.

Oh good, here we go again with the strawman arguments.

Did I suggest that's what he should do?

But you know something, I doubt anyone in the football world would knock us if we had pledged as a group to beat Geelong this weekend, then we hit them with everything we have (I'm talking old fashioned gutsy football), but their class and physicality saw us fall respectably short.

And to completely trash those useless bunch of hacks who call themselves football media, when they least expect it, when theyhad everything to play for, is pure bloody unadulterated gold.

Yes, what a great victory.

Give the man a pay rise...it was gold!

Bugger it, go the whole hog and give him all the accolades he so richly deserves - make him a general in the French Army.

 

[1980]

Dopey post, Razor. Garbled, reactionary rubbish.

You seem to have taken on a self-appointed capacity to declare whether or not players feel shame, as if you alone have been blessed with some kind of special insight of which the rest of us have unfortunately been deprived.

You also have clearly pre-established an opinion of Joel Bowden, and nothing said or done can alter that. Game-winning marks running into back with the flight of the ball, game-winning goals with the last kick of the match, preparedness to get crunched when backing back into oncoming traffic, ability to hit targets with far more consistency than any of his teammates, preparedness to play through injuries which would oust lesser blokes, and a resilient game-saving temperament when many around him have anxiety meltdowns. None of these will budge you from you stubborn preconception.

I defintiely concede that Bowden has his flaws - I believe he's been dropped from the senior team a couple of times over the last four seasons primarily because of these. But if I could go All-Australian as many times as I could be dropped throughout my career, I'd hang my boots up at the end of it all with more than a reasonable level of individual satisfaction.

He had a shocker on Thursday night, and like Nathan Brown, admitted it publicly.

To make a public pledge to beat Geelong at Geelong in their current form and composition is a daft idea. Destined for disaster. He ... we ... the club would be totally shit-canned in the inevitability of the loss, before and afterwards.

However, to vow a far more competitive approach is something realistic and achievable. "Competitive" to me implies hard attack on the footy and a better level of skill, and that a win is at least possible if our planets align like Carlton's did last Thursday night.

And to completely trash those useless bunch of hacks who call themselves football media, when they least expect it, when theyhad everything to play for, is pure bloody unadulterated gold.

Supporters that dislike Bowden do so because we care more about losing games than he does.

No matter how bad we lose, our senior players like Bowden should still play to the best of their abilities. Not disappear altogether.

The team played badly is an excuse we've forked out way too easily to cover for the lack of effort from senior players for 10 years. Its why we've been $hite for so long. Senior players shirking responsibility and shrugging shoulders

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Supporters that dislike Bowden do so because we care more about losing games than he does.

Again, worthless speculation.

You're just projecting onto his character what you want him to be thinking, simply to support your pre-conceived contention.

No matter how bad we lose, our senior players like Bowden should still play to the best of their abilities. Not disappear altogether.

The team played badly is an excuse we've forked out way too easily to cover for the lack of effort from senior players for 10 years. Its why we've been $hite for so long. Senior players shirking responsibility and shrugging shoulders

Maybe, after five coaches, a few thousand training runs and a couple of hundred games, he is simply not good enough? Same with Richo, and a few others.

Maybe it's not a character flaw or a deficient need for personal achievement after all?

Like members of the New Zealand cricket team, possibly they're just not good enough, despite being the best that we could muster?

Or have all five coaches been wrong about their inner desire to succeed?

These possibilities are no less valid or less likely than your character attacking rationale.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Yes, what a great victory.

Give the man a pay rise...it was gold!

Bugger it, go the whole hog and give him all the accolades he so richly deserves - make him a general in the French Army.

And another thing, this post was about "Bowden's Comments". If you want to pull the sarcasm card and turn his complete rubber-gloving of the media nitwits into yet another excuse to bag the bloke out, then so be it. But do so in the knowledge that you're now fitting the classic definition of the level of troll.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Speculation. You have no idea that it's anything to do with a bad attitude and/or selfishness.

For all we know it was an inability to follow team rules that has caused him top be dropped.

Is that not the very definition of selfish behaviour?

Or are you claiming he's too stupid to understand team rules?

 

[Rayzorwire]

And another thing, this post was about "Bowden's Comments". If you want to pull the sarcasm card and turn his complete rubber-gloving of the media nitwits into yet another excuse to bag the bloke out, then so be it.

I was merely pointing out how Richmondesque ridiculous it is for people to be patting Bowden on the back for how he spoke to the media in a week where we got smashed.

'We got hammered witless by a side we should have beaten, Bowden played at 30% ability yet again and didn't even offer up a whimper, but hey, he really showed those journalists.'

Yeehah!

 

[GhostofJimJess]

but hey, he really showed those journalists.'

Yep. He did.

 

[1980]

Speculation. You have no idea that it's anything to do with a bad attitude and/or selfishness.

For all we know it was an inability to follow team rules that has caused him top be dropped. As well as the subsequent need to make an example of a very senior player who has had a bad game.




Again, worthless speculation.

You're just projecting onto his character what you want him to be thinking, simply to support your pre-conceived contention.





Maybe, after five coaches, a few thousand training runs and a couple of hundred games, he is simply not good enough? Same with Richo, and a few others.

Maybe it's not a character flaw or a deficient need for personal achievement after all?

Like members of the New Zealand cricket team, possibly they're just not good enough, despite being the best that we could muster?

Or have all five coaches been wrong about their inner desire to succeed?

These possibilities are no less valid or less likely than your character attacking rationale.

Its a footy board mate. 99% of everything on here about what happens away from the football field is speculation.

So what's your point there?

What's not speculation is what you see Bowden do on the footy field. If he wasnt good enough, he'd be rubbish every game. Tim Fleming wasnt good enough. His lack of consistency and inability to string good performances in a row overwhelming tells you that he lacks mental strength, character and discipline. Its also hardly speculation when you watch him at training going through the motions. Never been a hard worker at training tells you something.

Thats just one of your weaker efforts.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I'll assume from your lack of response GoJJ, that you are completely out of reasons for Bowden being dropped multiple times, beyond the obvious one, that he IS a repeat offender, lazy, selfish footballer.

If you're happy to accept and applaud the cold comfort of him being smarter than a pack of idiots, rather than a consistently worthwhile leader and player, then that's up to you mate.

I'd rather he showed how much better he is than anyone else on the football field a hell of a lot more often.

 

[I'm the Juggernaut]

Bowden wants to be competitive
Green wants to win
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/74305/default.aspx

See the difference?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Its a footy board mate. 99% of everything on here about what happens away from the football field is speculation.

So what's your point there?

What's not speculation is what you see Bowden do on the footy field. If he wasnt good enough, he'd be rubbish every game. Tim Fleming wasnt good enough. His lack of consistency and inability to string good performances in a row overwhelming tells you that he lacks mental strength, character and discipline. Its also hardly speculation when you watch him at training going through the motions. Never been a hard worker at training tells you something.

Thats just one of your weaker efforts.

I'll assume from your lack of response GoJJ, that you are completely out of reasons for Bowden being dropped multiple times, beyond the obvious one, that he IS a repeat offender, lazy, selfish footballer.

If you're happy to accept and applaud the cold comfort of him being smarter than a pack of idiots, rather than a consistently worthwhile leader and player, then that's up to you mate.

I'd rather he showed how much better he is than anyone else on the football field a hell of a lot more often.

I've seen Joel Bowden play with a broken jaw (and cop another whack from Brad Miller that should've got the prick weeks, but kept playing anyway). I've seen him come back early after a broken collar-bone, only to break it again before quarter time and be out for another six weeks. I've seen him occupy the Death Zone just in front of Cam Mooney and Ben Graham at Kardinia Park one afternoon, and take crunch after crunch from behind, but keep getting up for his next turn (I was lucky enough to have a beer with Cam after the game and he was flabbergasted by Bowden's courage). I've seen him play over a hundred consecutive games without dropping out injured. I've seen him take control of and win us matches when all around him are having puppies whenever they take possession. I've seen him create goals from half back. I've seen him play on and compete manfully against (and sometimes beat) physically bigger and stronger blokes like Jonathon Brown, Warren Tredrea and Anthony Rocca. And when they were actually good.

You guys want to relentlessly dis one of Tigerland's best servants, knock yourselves out. But don't for a moment think that you're constant slagging of certain players is actually contributing to the improvement of the club.

I suppose you can't lose really ... if things work out for the Tigers you get to enjoy all the spoils, and if things don't work out you get to gloat "I told you so".

Go Tiges.

 

[PHX]

Bowden wants to be competitive
Green wants to win
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/74305/default.aspx

See the difference?

Yep, saw it and noted it but didn't say it.

We should be stating we will be attacking the game and going for the 4 points, not just aiming to be "competitive."

I'm growing to hate that word.

 

[ScallyWag1]

I've seen Joel Bowden play with a broken jaw (and cop another whack from Brad Miller that should've got the prick weeks, but kept playing anyway). I've seen him come back early after a broken collar-bone, only to break it again before quarter time and be out for another six weeks. I've seen him occupy the Death Zone just in front of Cam Mooney and Ben Graham at Kardinia Park one afternoon, and take crunch after crunch from behind, but keep getting up for his next turn (I was lucky enough to have a beer with Cam after the game and he was flabbergasted by Bowden's courage). I've seen him play over a hundred consecutive games without dropping out injured. I've seen him take control of and win us matches when all around him are having puppies whenever they take possession. I've seen him create goals from half back. I've seen him play on and compete manfully against (and sometimes beat) physically bigger and stronger blokes like Jonathon Brown, Warren Tredrea and Anthony Rocca. And when they were actually good.

You guys want to relentlessly dis one of Tigerland's best servants, knock yourselves out. But don't for a moment think that you're constant slagging of certain players is actually contributing to the improvement of the club.

I suppose you can't lose really ... if things work out for the Tigers you get to enjoy all the spoils, and if things don't work out you get to gloat "I told you so".

Go Tiges.

couldn't agree more about bowden, can't believe how some people on here view him. fan-f*cking-tastic post.

best one i've read on here in a long time.

 

[cormick]

I've seen Joel Bowden play with a broken jaw (and cop another whack from Brad Miller that should've got the prick weeks, but kept playing anyway). I've seen him come back early after a broken collar-bone, only to break it again before quarter time and be out for another six weeks. I've seen him occupy the Death Zone just in front of Cam Mooney and Ben Graham at Kardinia Park one afternoon, and take crunch after crunch from behind, but keep getting up for his next turn (I was lucky enough to have a beer with Cam after the game and he was flabbergasted by Bowden's courage). I've seen him play over a hundred consecutive games without dropping out injured. I've seen him take control of and win us matches when all around him are having puppies whenever they take possession. I've seen him create goals from half back. I've seen him play on and compete manfully against (and sometimes beat) physically bigger and stronger blokes like Jonathon Brown, Warren Tredrea and Anthony Rocca. And when they were actually good.

You guys want to relentlessly dis one of Tigerland's best servants, knock yourselves out. But don't for a moment think that you're constant slagging of certain players is actually contributing to the improvement of the club.

I suppose you can't lose really ... if things work out for the Tigers you get to enjoy all the spoils, and if things don't work out you get to gloat "I told you so".

Go Tiges.

I'll second the awesomeness of this post. Completely agree, along with Richo, he's been our best servant of the last 10 years, and the twats thats diss him are only doing so for their own self-gratification.
Carn Joel, prove em' wrong!

 

[Rayzorwire]

I suppose you can't lose really ... if things work out for the Tigers you get to enjoy all the spoils, and if things don't work out you get to gloat "I told you so".

I don't pull that kind of stunt GoJJ, I give credit where it's due.

IMO, Bowden's spectacular goal from the boundary today, his shank from 30m out which didn't make the distance at a crucial stage of the match against a GOOD opponent (i.e. not Essendon, BL or PA from last year) after he'd done not much, and getting up from a marking contest on the boundary and checking whether he took the skin off his elbow, pretty much summarise his career.

Great footballers kick both and don't feel even nasty grazes until after the match.

Never come across a footballer with so much skill who so regularly blows it, never come across a footballer with so much courage - but only ever on his own terms.

Add in lazy and selfish (which you must admit he has been numerous times) and for what he started with, he's rating at about 45% for what could have been.

 

[richoatthedisco]

I think what Rayzor means (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong ray) is that when we saw an 18 y/o kick 4 in a quarter against the Weagles back in 97, we thought 'we've got a champion here'.
Unfortunately, despite much very good football and three excellent years, that hasn't quite turned out to be the case. Whether he is good or not is not the point. It is that he could have been so much better. Two entities to blame: JB and RFC.
If he had been delivering the ball to Pavlich and Franklin, with some help from any of Mitchell, Wells, Bolton - I could go on - he would have been a better player and we would have been a more successful side. But if he had applied himself more, and been better led, he would have better too.

 

[tony_montana]

here here Rayzor,

one of the most sublimely gifted footballers i have seen no BS. Easily on par with C.Cornes in talent, at richmond in the past few decades, only cotch has walked in the door with more talent. Will look back on a good solid career, but under achieved.

Could've, should've, didn't...

 

[GhostofJimJess]

IMO, Bowden's spectacular goal from the boundary today, his shank from 30m out which didn't make the distance at a crucial stage of the match against a GOOD opponent (i.e. not Essendon, BL or PA from last year) after he'd done not much, and getting up from a marking contest on the boundary and checking whether he took the skin off his elbow, pretty much summarise his career.

I thought he did a lot of things today that summarise his career.

 

[Rayzorwire]

here here Rayzor,

one of the most sublimely gifted footballers i have seen no BS. Easily on par with C.Cornes in talent

Ironically Tony, Cornes has looked for a couple of years like he's headed in the exact same direction, the major difference being that he has a premiership under the belt.

Very similar type personalities.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Ironically Tony, Cornes has looked for a couple of years like he's headed in the exact same direction, the major difference being that he has a premiership under the belt.

Very similar type personalities.

Add Dale Lewis and Scott Lucas.