Universal Love Brad Close

[Warhorse]

And were either of those players 20 gamers in their second year in the list?

Close is actually tracking very similar to Varcoe in his second season - so let's see what happens when Close gets more games under his belt

He is 23 in a month.

 

[cats_09]

He is 23 in a month.

And a rookie who's in his second year on the list

 

[Seeds]

You were right that he's giving it off too much rather than taking shots but the count on that one now sits at 2 total.

The statement above ignores that scores are an output of a team system. If coaches want to base winning on individual talent then they can go coach Carlton or 2011 Melbourne.

It ignores no such thing. I think you have misread my intention. It’s very simple. The metric that determines wins and loses is goals for minus goals against.

it’s not tackles, foward pressure, disposals, hit outs, kms run or how high your socks are pulled up. Those are all means to an end. The end being scores for minus scores against.

to rate any metric that is just a means to an end higher than the metric that is the end itself is insane. This is not my subjective opinion. It’s objective reality.

 

[Seeds]

And a rookie who's in his second year on the list

Who is 23. Not 19.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Who is 23. Not 19.

Classic seeds.
Dejects Close because he's almost 23, yet defends Narkle like crazy whose nearly 24 with several more seasons on the list.

 

[Seeds]

Classic seeds.
Dejects Close because he's almost 23, yet defends Narkle like crazy whose nearly 24 with several more seasons on the list.

Can people please stop filling in the gaps. You are making sh*t up based off association algorithms in your head and not what I actually state. For one I have claimed that narkle has been poor in recent weeks. I don’t attribute significant potential growth to either of them because of their age. Completely consistent. I’ve already seen enough from narkle that he can be a great attacking mid/foward. I do not see it in close. In saying that I don’t think close is a dud either. I think he could play a stokes role further up the ground Utilising his handball and pressure. although I’m uncertain whether he can read the play sufficiently to find enough ball up the ground.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

It ignores no such thing. I think you have misread my intention. It’s very simple. The metric that determines wins and loses is goals for minus goals against.

it’s not tackles, foward pressure, disposals, hit outs, kms run or how high your socks are pulled up. Those are all means to an end. The end being scores for minus scores against.

to rate any metric that is just a means to an end higher than the metric that is the end itself is insane. This is not my subjective opinion. It’s objective reality.

You can't just pick the output metric of a system and measure every component against it.

 

[cats_09]

It ignores no such thing. I think you have misread my intention. It’s very simple. The metric that determines wins and loses is goals for minus goals against.

it’s not tackles, foward pressure, disposals, hit outs, kms run or how high your socks are pulled up. Those are all means to an end. The end being scores for minus scores against.

to rate any metric that is just a means to an end higher than the metric that is the end itself is insane. This is not my subjective opinion. It’s objective reality.

What if Team A scores more goals than Team B, but Team B registers a greater number of behinds that not only makes up the differences but also exceed it?

In that case, the team scoring more goals doesn't actually win the match

 

[Romeoh1]

Coming along nicely.

 

[standupand]

It ignores no such thing. I think you have misread my intention. It’s very simple. The metric that determines wins and loses is goals for minus goals against.

it’s not tackles, foward pressure, disposals, hit outs, kms run or how high your socks are pulled up. Those are all means to an end. The end being scores for minus scores against.

to rate any metric that is just a means to an end higher than the metric that is the end itself is insane. This is not my subjective opinion. It’s objective reality.

Right, but it would be ridiculous to assess the effectiveness of a ruckman by the number of goals he or she kicked or saved rather than hit outs to advantage. It's the same for other role players. In Close's case, chases, sprints, running, pressure acts, assists etc these are the better indicators of how well he's performing his role in the team.

 

[Seeds]

What if Team A scores more goals than Team B, but Team B registers a greater number of behinds that not only makes up the differences but also exceed it?

In that case, the team scoring more goals doesn't actually win the match

Replace goals with weighted goals and point if you want to be pedantic. I will let you see if you can guess the weights.

 

[Vdubs]

And were either of those players 20 gamers in their second year in the list?

Close is actually tracking very similar to Varcoe in his second season - so let's see what happens when Close gets more games under his belt

Pity he doesn't have the X factor, tackling strength, pace or outrageous talent that Varcoe had. But Close is a fine player.

 

[Nickoo]

And were either of those players 20 gamers in their second year in the list?

Close is actually tracking very similar to Varcoe in his second season - so let's see what happens when Close gets more games under his belt

I would have thought Close is doing better than Varcoe in his second year.


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[Warhorse]

Having a shocking month and still scared of attempting to kick goals. Needs a spell in the 2nds. Is he injured?

 

[Seeds]

And a rookie who's in his second year on the list

So? His body is far more advanced then a second year draftee. More like a fifth year.

 

[Seeds]

I would have thought Close is doing better than Varcoe in his second year.


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You would be wrong then.

varcoe, being far younger then close in his second season, averaged far higher goals and tackles. Close averaged two more possessions per game without any of the run and carry and line breaking of varcoe possessions.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Having a shocking month and still scared of attempting to kick goals. Needs a spell in the 2nds. Is he injured?

Doesn't look right. Ineffectual last couple of games and yes, needs to get more hungry around goals.
Starting this thread killed him

 

[MacStradbroke]

Pity he doesn't have the X factor, tackling strength, pace or outrageous talent that Varcoe had. But Close is a fine player.

Varcoe was the scaredest player I’ve ever seen in the hoops for the first 3 or 4 years of his career. Close tracking very well, especially given where he was recruited in comparison.

 

[Seeds]

Varcoe was the scaredest player I’ve ever seen in the hoops for the first 3 or 4 years of his career. Close tracking very well, especially given where he was recruited in comparison.

wtf? He was the best defensive player in the club. At the age of 19.

now closes willingness to take a shot on goal in open play. That’s scared.

 

[MacStradbroke]

wtf? He was the best defensive player in the club. At the age of 19.

now closes willingness to take a shot on goal in open play. That’s scared.

dont need courage to run down players from behind. Improved out of sight as he got older/more confident.

I think Close could take more shots, but absolutely love his team play more. Not sure why He is being bagged, other than some of us needing to hate on someone. (Not hate, but Menegola is mine, kills me)

 

[Kitcat]

He is inexperienced and has found it hard to maintain his very good form for a sustained spell. He was managed a few weeks ago but played as Higgins was injured. For example, Fogarty started very well at Carlton but couldn’t maintain it and he was a high draft pick. Close needed a break and didn’t get it.

 

[FredLeDeux]

dont need courage to run down players from behind. Improved out of sight as he got older/more confident.

I think Close could take more shots, but absolutely love his team play more. Not sure why He is being bagged, other than some of us needing to hate on someone. (Not hate, but Menegola is mine, kills me)

Particularly in local footy, it's often a sign of the opposite in fact.

 

[cats_09]

So? His body is far more advanced then a second year draftee. More like a fifth year.

Geeze, out 5th year players must have missed their sessions in the gym then across all their pre-seasons

Going by the clubs website and player profiles - Close is the lightest weight player on the list at 71kg, the only player within 5kg of him is first year player Holmes listed at 74kg

Looking at Close and how "far advanced" his body is, he looks like a 2nd year rookie who could benefit from some additional pre-seasons in the gym - he is a light weight with nothing on him. He may be 23, but he isn't filled out like a 23yr old football player who would be in their 4th or 5th year on the list

 

[My Tilly]

You would be wrong then.

varcoe, being far younger then close in his second season, averaged far higher goals and tackles. Close averaged two more possessions per game without any of the run and carry and line breaking of varcoe possessions.

Varcoe also had to break into a team which was as dominant as they come. That forward line was stacked. Johnson and Chapman were already stars and Stokes made one forward pocket his own for the next 5 years.
Ablett was moved to midfield, Varcoe held his own and the rest is history. His pressure without the ball terrorized defenses.

Apart from Dangerfield, who is predominantly in midfield, Close only has Miers as genuine competition. Dahlhaus wouldn't get a game in our 2007 team averaging 12 disposals, 3 tackles, 0.4 goals, 0.5 assists the past two seasons. Wouldn't cut it.

Close is going along ok but nothing more than that at this stage.

 

[Vdubs]

Varcoe was the scaredest player I’ve ever seen in the hoops for the first 3 or 4 years of his career. Close tracking very well, especially given where he was recruited in comparison.

Not the VARCOE I saw. Disagree completely.