News Brad Crouch to Saints (STK make offer; Band 3, ADL to match?)

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Panther Blood

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Im ringing but no one is picking up.

Yes I have a general enquiry. WTF are you doing in handling this Brad Crouch situation.
Genuinely made me LOL 👍😂
 

hey shorty

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We're now at what 'we can live with' haha

Usual suspects.

The AFC will never reach its potential with supporters that have such low expectations.

Soft as butter.
The value of Brad sits at a pick in the midteens if we can manufacture that then all is OK.

Not good, but OK.
 

Mego Red

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What incentive does Saint Kilda have to trade picks with us to give us a better outcome? Why wouldn't they just take Brad for free and keep their picks in that scenario?

People are not angry at the club yet. They're angry at the possibility that the club may choose not to match the bid and just accept this compensation. There is no point making threats like "if Saint Kilda don't offer enough to give us band 1 compensation, we'll match the bid" if we're not going to follow through. It just leads to clubs calling our bluff - exactly like Saint Kilda has done in this instance.

This is not a Nick Stevens scenario, it's not as though we are risking losing Brad for nothing. If we match the bid and Saint Kilda refuses to play ball on a trade, then he plays for us next year. Given our list profile, it's not like we should be hard up for cash, and we're not exactly likely to be premiership threats either way. If he still wants out at the end of 2021, maybe whichever club is interested then will realise we won't be taken advantage of, and will put a proper contract in front of him.

Or, better scenario, we get something good out of Saint Kilda. Certainly, it couldn't be anything worse than pick 23!

The only real arguments for not matching the bid are A) being "good citizens" to Brad which, I mean, fu** him, that's not what we're here to do and he hasn't exactly been a good citizen himself, and B) fear that we may get stuck with him and his (marginally) inflated contract for a few years. I'm willing to risk B) in order to avoid being seen as absolute pushovers in trade week.

Look at our reputation at bidding on academy players. We've done it often enough now that clubs are lining up to help us trade up during in the draft, just to avoid the risk of us putting in an early bid. That's what establishing a strong reputation does, clubs will give you a bit extra than you deserve just to avoid you sticking it to them.

Whereas our reputation in trading our our players is that we'll roll over and let clubs get away with low-balling us. It's time to do something about that.
Good post - but surely you see why St Kilda would benefit from offering us something of value in exchange for us choosing to not match?

Sure, they could hope we just take 23. But even they must think that's too light.

We could match, and then things get weird and challenging for them and Brad.

Or they could trade the Atkins compo for their 2021 2nd, and we could decide that and 23 is worth it. It's not much, but another 2nd could be useful next year. Maybe we get more - but that's the principle.
 
Rather him walk to the psd and get nothing than get bent over. fu** em.
Unfortunately it takes a strong Club to allow him to walk to the PSD and get nothing.

I agree. Crows need to see the bigger picture here, than Pick 23.

If it isnt already, it will always be a feeding frenzy on the AFC.
 
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The value of Brad sits at a pick in the teens, if we can manufacture that then all is OK.
Mitch mcGovern - a 4th forward getting less than 10 touches a game and averaging a goal a game secured us pick 13 and Shane McAdam

If we match the bid, then Brad either needs to be traded, can sign on with us or can go to the draft. Assuming he shies away from the draft and is keen to get to St Kilda, then St Kilda must not get the free hit of no trade and loss of draft capital
 
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Given our history of stuff ups, my biggest concern is that we knew the deal that St Kilda were going to lodge and gave our blessing to lodge it and we missed out on Pick 2 because we didn't do our due diligence by checking first whether trigger bonuses were included in the compo calculations.
 
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Every player would quickly have crazy unachievable incentives included in their contacts for no other reason than free agency compensation. Every player would receive band 1 compensation

It wouldn't be hard to stop that though. Just calculate the incentive component based on fixed past criteria. Use the player's previous 2 or 3 years. So in Brad's case a b&f incentive would be included. It's subject to some dodgery, but nowhere near as much, easy or riskless as your goals kicked example.
 

The Sloane Ranger

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I have it on good authority that Brad is angry with the club. I don't know why (but I asked). However, it sounds like Nicks likes him....maybe can talk him round.
Angry at the club for only offering him 4 yrs at $750k a season

Or

Angry at the club for not giving him more.drug education

Or

Maybe angry at the club for not giving him a full time minder so he didnt find himself in trouble

Or even

Angry at the club for not giving him more gambling education

Hmmm you might also want to check your mail on Nicks....

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Murray2503

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Why would the saints act on a threat when there's no benefit doing so. It's us who must act to force a trade, there's serious doubts whether we'll do that. As it stands, Saints are odds on to pay nothing and they pay no more if forced to trade after we've matched.
It's in the saints best interests to make sure pick 23 (which is costing them nothing) comes to us. Therefore in order to get us to not match (which is the last thing they want) they need to satisfy us with another mid 20's pick that will be sorted tomorrow (or possibly already has) and executed when we can trade the picks. WB will need to be across all this and agree to trade their pick 14 for pick 23 and the pick we receive from StK. The last thing the saints want is us to match. If we match they will need to give up pick 15 or pull out. Then we are left with a player who we don't want and doesn't want to play for us to be traded. Other clubs would be in a massive position of power. Saint Kilda wants Crouch and will be trying their utmost to sort it out and make sure we don't match. We don't want to match but if we are forced into that position we will. As I said above that's the last thing they want.
*We agree to not bid on JUH at 1.
 
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Given our history of stuff ups, my biggest concern is that we knew the deal that St Kilda were going to lodge and gave our blessing to lodge it and we missed out on Pick 2 because we didn't do our due diligence by checking first whether trigger bonuses were included in the compo calculations.
Yes. Im more likely to believe in the Crows incompetence, than the Saints low balling us.
 
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We're now at what 'we can live with' haha

Usual suspects.

The AFC will never reach its potential with supporters that have such low expectations.

Soft as butter.
So outline exactly what you think they should have done. You want them to match and keep Brad? You must have been pissed when we told him to explore FA then, right?
 

Flip Side

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I have it on good authority that Brad is angry with the club. I don't know why (but I asked). However, it sounds like Nicks likes him....maybe can talk him round.

he should be angry with Barrett, doing his best to lead the “Brad not worth $$$“ fan club
 
If we take the compensation pick, the only acceptable trade would be getting St Kilda to take one of our fringe players for massive overs.

The AFL won't approve something like pick 39 for pick 17 because it's too one sided. Throw a player in there instead and it could work.

The overs I'm thinking of are Jake Kelly or Paul Seedsman for a 2021 first.

However this would never happen because St Kilda could just trade that "overs" for Brad (which becomes fair value) and not take on a list clogger
 

hey shorty

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Mitch mcGovern - a 4th forward getting less than 10 touches a game and averaging a goal a game secured us pick 13 and Shane McAdam

If we match the bid, then Brad either needs to be traded, can sign on with us or can go to the draft. Assuming he shies away from the draft and is keen to get to St Kilda, then St Kilda must not get the free hit of no trade and loss of draft capital
Carlton wrongly overvalued the guy, that wasn't what he was worth. Even so, in the good games he did play for us he showed a bit of matchwinning ability.
 
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I posted this morning that I felt it would be a "no match" and we would take the band 2 compo, and we'd trade picks with the Saints to make the outcome better. I still believe that's the likely outcome.

Theres no point in matching if you don't want the player. Match and trade makes no sense when you have a compo pick available to you which evaporates in a trade and match scenario. Yes Kelly said band 1 or match, but saying that keeps the Saints honest in negotiations. Assuming they want Brad enough it ensures they want to avoid a match situation.

It blows my mind that they didn't just pay Brad enough to guarantee that. A free hit was on offer which was surely worth an extra $100k pa. But Brad's patchy history obviously worried them enough to make them lower their base and add a bunch of triggers.

We obviously don't want Brad on the terms the Saints have put forward. He shopped himself last year and would have gone to GC had they not got cold feet (or another reason). We put a decent offer to him which he rejected and which we then withdrew. That, together with the difficulties we have had with him was probably enough for us to put a line through him.

I get the anger about not getting pick 2, but I don't quite get the anger at the club. This isn't a trade. Adelaide can't control what St Kilda or the AFL do. The criticism is that we clearly misread his market value. It sounds to me as though, if this wasn't an RFA year for Brad, we would have been looking to trade him anyway, given that we told him to explore offers. So we clearly saw an opportunity to get a band 1 pick, probably based on what GC offered him last year.

In the context of all that, I'm ok with the club taking the compo and trading picks to get us a better final outcome. Pissed with no band 1, pissed with the Saints for not making a better offer, pissed with the AFL for their stupid manipulation, pissed that another first round pick (which he basically was) has turned into a bust and wasted talent, pissed with the club for getting itself into this position. But ok with them trying to make the best of another sh*t hand.

Why are St Kilda trading in your example? They've no need to give us anything until we've matched. As of right now, Brad is their player.
 

Mego Red

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Was an odd one wasn't it? Offer a guy $1m then turn around and go "actually, nahh". I wonder why an AFL controlled club would do that? Very mysterious...
Why do you think they offered Brad $1m?

Everything I've read is Brad's manager approached THEM with his interest, and $1m as the price tag.

They were flattered but clearly not that interested.
 
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The only other explanation there is for the delay is both Adelaide and St Kilda truly believed that the offer was enough to get us Band 1 compo, suddenly the AFL turn around and say 'nup, we're not gonna do it" and both parties are now sitting there like "Now what?" and have to spend the next 3 days trying to hammer out some sort of deal neither party wanted, but satisfies both.

How incompetent would that be on both clubs' part, given that Band 3 is allegedly the outcome: not even close?
 
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I think that's why it was lodged sunday, so that the start of trade overlapped the deadline. It'll be "do the pick swap or we will match".

I don't think it really works this way, though.

Once we choose not to match, the trade is done. We get the compensation pick, they get Brad.

At that point, if they agree to some obviously unbalanced trade that sees us getting a much better result than them, the AFL will know it was part of a deal. And that kind of deal is not above board.

Or, if they turn around and say "yeah nah, we're just going to forget about that trade we promised", what could we do about it? Complain to the AFL that Saint Kilda aren't willing to do the dodgy with us anymore?

Or, the trade is not obviously unbalanced, in which case what is the point?
 
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If they know we aren't going to match, they don't need to do any deals. They can just sit back and watch us implode.

And even if we do force them into some side deal using the (zero) leverage we have, at worst it would have to be a deal the AFL would actually tick off. So it would never be heavily in our favour.

If they're saving $1m+ in the process I'm sure they would be over the moon at that outcome
Its a funny one isn't it. A free agent happy to stay or go (really only interested in $), a club not really wanting him but not willing to lose him for nothing, and a club that wants him but not so much they're willing to overpay to seal the deal.

That's what we are dealing with here, all.parties looking to take advantage of the FA but probably the least motivated of any parties ever in any FA deal.
 
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I keep hearing folk say that the Saints hold all the cards, how is this so?
They want Brad, they pay up. I’m not sure how them wanting to keep picks for the off chance of getting King is your concern. The Saints midfield will cost them going further next year and if they pass off on Crouch and slip backwards next year the fans would lynch the club. It’s up to them to get it done

It's simple. They've lodged a contract and to force a trade we need to match it. It appears that we are hesitant to do that. As it stands, until we match, we hold no cards at all.
 
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Good post - but surely you see why St Kilda would benefit from offering us something of value in exchange for us choosing to not match?

Sure, they could hope we just take 23. But even they must think that's too light.

Again, I don't think this is how it works. They can't just agree to do a lopsided trade with us in exchange for us accepting their free agency bid. That's textbook draft tampering.
 
Would be funny if we accept Pick 23 as compo and 10 years from now this kid has had an elite career.

Mods if Im still posting in 10 years time, please shoot me.

You just know the club will roll out the "Sloane was pick 44" line, like we always do when we get reamed.
 

Mego Red

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Why are St Kilda trading in your example? They've no need to give us anything until we've matched. As of right now, Brad is their player.
They are giving us something to PREVENT us matching. That's still our right.

Even St Kilda must think just 23 as compensation is far too light.

But adding something small to 23 gets us closer to being made right, and means St Kilda has gotten him for less than if they force us to match.
 
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