Brad Lloyd

[Nothing]

OUT:

• Michael Johnson (rested),
  
• Chris Mayne (Omitted),
  
• Nathan Fyfe (Rested),
  
• David Mundy (rested),
  
• Zac Clarke (Rested),
  
• Hayden Ballantyne (rested),
  
• Michael Walters (Knee),
  
• Lee Spurr (rested),
  
• Zac Dawson (rested),
  
• Nick Suban (Hamstring),
  
• Stephen Hill (Hamstring)

I'm sure I've heard some bandy about that Mayne was never dropped, yet there he is, omitted.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Man your profile picture and claremont serial killer stuff is the biggest lol
Also this is pretty fingered
considering we picked tommy t train (sheridan) and Hayden 'Tony' Crozier pick 16 and 19 as well

With Sheridan, didn't GWS get a mini draft of 12x17 year olds in 2010?

So Sheridan was in effect, pick 28 and Crozier was pick 20 (you were out by just a whisker) being in effect pick 32.

I want someone useful in the late first round, but I don't expect 2nd round picks to be world beaters, but I do want them to be solid c graders and we came close but not close enough with these 2.

 

[PintofPale]

I find the two interesting stories about our list over recent years to be
(1) overperforming with an average list 2012-15: Aside from Pav, McPharlin, Sandi and the emerging Fyfe, we had more than our share of plodders, but made one grand final & a home prelim.
(2) falling off the cliff 2016: combination of our stars aging/retiring, the aforementioned plodders, and inability to stick a good first round draft selection.

I'd like to think now we've got a more balanced list, but haven't yet seen the rise up the ladder that we'd like. Any analysis of 'Pitt over Darling' etc focuses on the detail and ignores the bigger picture.

 

[malpaso]

I find the two interesting stories about our list over recent years to be
(1) overperforming with an average list 2012-15: Aside from Pav, McPharlin, Sandi and the emerging Fyfe, we had more than our share of plodders, but made one grand final & a home prelim.
(2) falling off the cliff 2016: combination of our stars aging/retiring, the aforementioned plodders, and inability to stick a good first round draft selection.

I'd like to think now we've got a more balanced list, but haven't yet seen the rise up the ladder that we'd like. Any analysis of 'Pitt over Darling' etc focuses on the detail and ignores the bigger picture.

Good post. I think the last two seasons have been about putting a group of players that will play for awhile together. Injuries have hampered that but I believe the fruits will start to bear about the middle of next year. Really hopeful we can have a solid offseason and add some handy players.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

You used to be funny man. Now your jokes just fall flat.

Lift your game!

Previously I have given you advice, but now I say you should avoid my wrath and vengeance. Do not try and overreach yourself or accomplish the impossible because you will only succeed in harming yourself. The past is over! Delete your posts and turnover your account to the mods.

Do not dispute with me because my loins are girded for battle with you and I stand at the ready. Even if you hide in the sky or in the Earth, I shall bring you down from the turning celestial sphere, I shall pull you up like a lion, I will not leave anyone alive in your realm. If you do not seek mercy then let us see what God's will is.

 

[Arcassius]

Previously I have given you advice, but now I say you should avoid my wrath and vengeance. Do not try and overreach yourself or accomplish the impossible because you will only succeed in harming yourself. The past is over! Delete your posts and turnover your account to the mods.

Do not dispute with me because my loins are girded for battle with you and I stand at the ready. Even if you hide in the sky or in the Earth, I shall bring you down from the turning celestial sphere, I shall pull you up like a lion, I will not leave anyone alive in your realm. If you do not seek mercy then let us see what God's will is.

I had to look that one up -

I prefer wearing pants myself for those occasions that warrant a battle. You old people certainly do things differently

 

[Frigate]

Hindsight in draft selection is wonderful. 2011 draft had GWS taking 11 of the top 14. Pick 16 was Sheridan. 21 was Tom Mitchell father\son - so irrelevant too. . Hamling 32. Crozier - we probably got that nearly right. The mistake was not taking Brad Hill (went 33). It was a pretty crap lower order draft. If it was not for GWS, we would have landed Coniglio.

We ended up with Hamling and Hill, for Crozier and a few picks in a round about way.

In that year the only key forward was J Patton. And even he went at #1 and cannot hold a spot.

So the statement "we should draft key position forwards" - is the stupidest statement ever.
Key forwards ire the hardest position in the comp. They are few and far between - so who are the A grade key forwards :
Franklin
Cameron
Lynch
Reiwoldt
Hawkins
Hogan
Dixon
Gunston makes it in a good team


So it is not like "yeah he is a good key forward - his name is Jack Watts, we need a KP forward".
Sidebottom was probably the pick at 11 - not a Key forward. Nic Nat at 2 - Hill at 3, Hurley at 5, Ziebell at 9, Shuey at 18 (priority) - we took Walters at 53 ffs. No other key forwards in that draft really.

A selection goes wrong. Like Fyfe. We get him at 17. Yay. We do not take McGovern. Boo. We take Hill instead of Rich yay....

The difficulty is finding players that will be best 22. Picking a forward for the sake of it is not enough. McCarthy is a potentially elite player (forward), but still struggles, as does Cox and Tabs having a break out year despite injury. He was taken at 14 (CM).
We were the only other club to take a key forward with Apeness. Next we took Alex Pearce. at 37 in 2013.

I think people forget the concessions that have come in, and the free agency also. We struggled to lure players at the best of times. We have done better lately.

I predict good times ahead. We just need to get our list on the park.

 

[eastfreo75]

Let’s hope Bondy is next. Get proper support around Ross rather than the rabble he walked into.

We could only dream of having someone like Paul Roos running the Football department and list management in a combined role

Have you heard him on some of ideas for the Blues in terms of trades?

Totally stupid. Great coach but not idea on list management.

 

[yyou]

fresh blood in the role hopefully leads to better results.
bottom line is we are a bottom team, so let's get someone in who can get us up to the top

 

[Rob]

Exactly. We need someone who can get the inside running in WA - not another fish in the crowded sea of Vic recruitment. Does anyone think a TAC / APS school coach is going to give a Freo recruiter a hot tip to check out a kid who's flying under the radar? Why would he want that kid shipped off to a state 3000kms away? I'm amazed Bond was duped into thinking that having a Vic-based head recruiter was a good idea.

This.

To think we were ever going to be better at recruiting Vic talent than Victorian clubs is at best arrogance and at worst downright negligent.

Outside mature agers, how many draft bargains have we picked up from Melbourne?

 

[stax on the mull]

Hindsight in draft selection is wonderful. 2011 draft had GWS taking 11 of the top 14. Pick 16 was Sheridan. 21 was Tom Mitchell father\son - so irrelevant too.

We submitted a first round pick for Tom Mitchell and Sydney had to match it.

 

[its free real estate]

This.

To think we were ever going to be better at recruiting Vic talent than Victorian clubs is at best arrogance and at worst downright negligent.

Outside mature agers, how many draft bargains have we picked up from Melbourne?

We've never been great at Vic recruiting historically, but we have had some bargains with Mundy, Crowley and McPhee (at a stretch). However I can't think of too many from the past 10 years that I would call a steal. Maybe Darcy?

The problem is we used to get WA bargains from the rookie list and PSD through Sandilands, Johnson, Duffield, De Boer, and those bargains seem to have dried up.

 

[go_the_dockers]

We've never been great at Vic recruiting historically, but we have had some bargains with Mundy, Crowley and McPhee (at a stretch). However I can't think of too many from the past 10 years that I would call a steal. Maybe Darcy?

The problem is we used to get WA bargains from the rookie list and PSD through Sandilands, Johnson, Duffield, De Boer, and those bargains seem to have dried up.

Hard to argue with that.

 

[Paracleet]

Hard to argue with that.

We did just upgrade a WA rookie list bargain in the last 24 hours, so you could argue with it on the basis of it not being correct I suppose.
Don't get sucked into Clays' vortex of perpetual self important negativity.

 

[wayToGo_]

No arguing from me that our drafting a while back was rubbish but I think we've done ok from Victoria lately...

Lachie Weller - pick #13, sold for pick #2
Ed Langdon - pick #54, was a bargain
Luke Ryan - pick #66, was a bargain
Taylin Duman - pick #3 rookie draft, looks a bargain
Sean Darcy - pick #38, looks a bargain
Sam Switkowski - pick #73, looks a bargain
Tom North - pick #65, looks a bargain

Brayshaw and Cerra were expensive but both look the goods to me.

It's certainly improved from the Crozier & Sheridan picks imo. I think we've picked up some good bargains from Tasmania and South Australia as well. Even Nyhuis from NT is looking a good pick. Given the picks we've had I don't think we've missed much from WA recently. Taking Kelly a year earlier is the only thing I can think of.

 

[Rob]

We've never been great at Vic recruiting historically, but we have had some bargains with Mundy, Crowley and McPhee (at a stretch). However I can't think of too many from the past 10 years that I would call a steal. Maybe Darcy?

Mundy and Darcy are notably not from Melbourne. Mundy was a pick 19 as well, so he would have been pretty highly rated before the draft. Ed Langdon was a good get, and probably our best from Melbourne. But even he has taken a few years to come good.

You're right, we've never been great at drafting from Victoria, and we simply never will be whilst there are 10 teams there. The resources that we throw at Victorian recruiting should really be towards the top end for drafts like our most recent where we have top picks and need the best possible player. This idea that we are somehow going to spot a bargain in junior ranks out of the backyards of most of the other teams in the comp is fanciful bullshit. We might get an occasional one (like Langdon), but the return on investment will always be low. Especially considering come contract negotiation time those guys will have plenty of clubs crawling around driving their price up.

Our 2 best picks were Barlow and Ryan, both mature age selections and well known to everyone. We were just lucky enough to take the punt when we did.

The problem is we used to get WA bargains from the rookie list and PSD through Sandilands, Johnson, Duffield, De Boer, and those bargains seem to have dried up.

There's a few later draft picks floating around. Neale was pick 58 and from SA, Walters was pick 58 (WA), Blakely was pick 34 (WA), Alex Pearce pick 37 (Tassie). Even Fyfe at 20 is insane in hindsight. Which shows my point - with less eyes on guys from outside Victoria, that's where you can get the draft gems. Our rescruiting resources should primarily be directed towards WA, with most of the rest not in Melbourne. Having the list manager based in Melbourne, in that context, is ****ing crazy.

 

[its free real estate]

We did just upgrade a WA rookie list bargain in the last 24 hours, so you could argue with it on the basis of it not being correct I suppose.
Don't get sucked into Clays' vortex of perpetual self important negativity.

Considering you've argued for years against my "vortex of perpetual self important negativity", and considering my predictions came to pass, and none of yours did, what does this say? If your reasoning has no predictive power then what value is it?

What was it you said a few months back, "we're building a very special team"? Yes, it's no less inexperienced than the one that played in 2010, but instead of making finals and beating Hawthorn, it struggles to beat Carlton at home and gets pumped by Hawthorn.

What's worse, being self important, or being delusional?

 

[its free real estate]

No arguing from me that our drafting a while back was rubbish but I think we've done ok from Victoria lately...

Lachie Weller - pick #13, sold for pick #2
Ed Langdon - pick #54, was a bargain
Luke Ryan - pick #66, was a bargain
Taylin Duman - pick #3 rookie draft, looks a bargain
Sean Darcy - pick #38, looks a bargain
Sam Switkowski - pick #73, looks a bargain
Tom North - pick #65, looks a bargain

Brayshaw and Cerra were expensive but both look the goods to me.

It's certainly improved from the Crozier & Sheridan picks imo. I think we've picked up some good bargains from Tasmania and South Australia as well. Even Nyhuis from NT is looking a good pick. Given the picks we've had I don't think we've missed much from WA recently. Taking Kelly a year earlier is the only thing I can think of.

Langdon and Darcy are bargains - the rest not really. I don't count guys like Ryan because there's years of exposed form at senior levels. For the same reason I don't count Broughton or Mzungu (or Tim Kelly)

Also, there's a case of counting your chickens before they hatched with a lot of blokes in their first and second seasons. I think we all would have said Suban was a steal at pick 24 in years 1 and 2, or Zac Clark at 37, but it just didn't pan out like that.

Is Chris Mayne a bargain? Pick 40, will probably end up playing 200 games across two clubs, won an RS nomination, played in a GF, might still play in another. I bet Mayne ends up with a better career than half the players in your list above, but I don't know if we would have considered him a bargain.

 

[Taylor]

We submitted a first round pick for Tom Mitchell and Sydney had to match it.

With their next available pick, as was the system at the time. Signing Tom to a 4 year big money deal to agree as his father had just moved across to coach. It was the most done deal since before Tom Scully's dad got poached to work for GWS on a big contract to lure Tom across.

 

[Paracleet]

Considering you've argued for years against my "vortex of perpetual self important negativity", and considering my predictions came to pass, and none of yours did, what does this say? If your reasoning has no predictive power then what value is it?

What was it you said a few months back, "we're building a very special team"? Yes, it's no less inexperienced than the one that played in 2010, but instead of making finals and beating Hawthorn, it struggles to beat Carlton at home and gets pumped by Hawthorn.

What's worse, being self important, or being delusional?

Hahaha what predictions? Quote just one specific prediction. Saying we're shit year and you're bound to be right some of the time.
What are you even doing here? Didn't you swear to never return last time you left in a fit of histrionics?

 

[its free real estate]

Saying we're shit year

Amusing mistake from the insufferable pedant.

 

[its free real estate]

From 2015, when we were 8-0:

Depends. I expect a slide down the ladder at some point over the next two years. If he can introduce youngsters and still keep a healthy winning rate (40-50% over a season) then he's definitely worth retaining. If the bottom completely falls out of the club, then he isn't. If he looks for quick fixes through trading and free agency, to keep the best 22 'mature aged' then Freo should move him on.

Thankfully he didn't do the latter. We're somewhere between prediction one and two, closer to two. My thinking has evolved on this, it is mostly not Lyon's fault that we're in this situation, although he'll be the one holding the bag for it.

 

[PurpleReign95]

With Sheridan, didn't GWS get a mini draft of 12x17 year olds in 2010?

So Sheridan was in effect, pick 28 and Crozier was pick 20 (you were out by just a whisker) being in effect pick 32.

I want someone useful in the late first round, but I don't expect 2nd round picks to be world beaters, but I do want them to be solid c graders and we came close but not close enough with these 2.

good point
never thought of it like that

 

[stax on the mull]

With their next available pick, as was the system at the time. Signing Tom to a 4 year big money deal to agree as his father had just moved across to coach. It was the most done deal since before Tom Scully's dad got poached to work for GWS on a big contract to lure Tom across.

Yeah, just speculating that it was probably the kind of player we were looking for at the time, and there's really not many midfielders still available, and Sheridan is a bit of a reach. Its a pretty thin draft when you go through the misses after GWS skimmed most of the cream, and the players we got back that went in the 30's are among the better picks in that year.

 

[Taylor]

Let's not start an argument over who got us into

Yeah, just speculating that it was probably the kind of player we were looking for at the time, and there's really not many midfielders still available, and Sheridan is a bit of a reach. Its a pretty thin draft when you go through the misses after GWS skimmed most of the cream, and the players we got back that went in the 30's are among the better picks in that year.

We had his dad working with us prior to his move to Sydney too, which was why Sydney paid Mitchell so much money and contract length to get his nomination of them as a father son destination.