Brand Split Pre-PG Era

[Dont be a lemon]

Everybody wanks about the Attitude Era (late 1997-early 2002) and how good it was. And when it was good it tended to be really, really good. But it is now 2013 which has got me thinking... What about the 'era' that came afterwards? What do people think of that time in WWE?

In April 2002 WWE split their wrestlers between the Raw and SmackDown shows and gave them separate belts to wrestle for (creating the World Heavyweight Championship in September).

In May 2002 they famously got "the F out!" and stopped sticking ATTITUDE on their advertisements but continued aiming their product primarily at an adult audience.

In 2003 they introduced Raw-exclusive and SmackDown-exclusive pay-per-views with only the 'big 4' having wrestlers from both shows. They also 'restarted' ECW as brand in 2006 but I wasn't watching around that time so can't comment much of that particularly. In 2007 they made all the pay-per-views united once again.

In July 2008 they made all their programming TV-PG (Raw and the PPVs had previously been TV-14) and started aiming their product at a younger, more 'family' audience. This can be considered the end of the 'prime' brand split 'era'. Eventually the wrestlers frequently rocked up on the other shows and by mid-2012 WWE completely ended the brand split for TV (they still do house shows separately).

So yeah April/May 2002 - July 2008 is what could be called the Brand Split Pre-PG Era. The Attitude Era was over but WWE was still targeting an older audience.

Notable names who were perhaps at their peak in this era include Brock Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero (before his sad death), Chris Benoit (before his surprisingly weird death), Kurt Angle, Shawn Micheals Mark II, John Bradshaw Layfield, Edge, Randy Orton, John Cena, Batista, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Triple H and others I'm sure.

I didn't watch a lot from 2006 onwards so I'm sure I've left out many important details of then.

Anyway, now that 2020 isn't really that far away and some of you might have thinning hair, what did YOU think of the Brand Split Pre-PG Era?

 

[Indie_]

2002-2004 was a very good time in wrestling imo.

Evolution remains one of the greatest stables of all time.

 

[SupportMe]

I stopped watching wrestling from late 04' to about Wrestlemania 2011 so I didn't experience this entire period.

Stuff I liked

• The rise of guys like Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit and Brock Lesnar
• Kurt Angle continuing his ascension to one of the best of all time
• Eric Bischoff as GM and most of what that entailed
• Paul Heyman

What I didn't like

• The pasteurised version of the nWo appearing mere months after the Invasion
• Hulk Hogan in general with the exception of his appearances at Wrestlmania X8 and XIX
• HHH burying everyone. Seriously in an 18 month period he went over RVD, Booker T, Scott Steiner, Goldberg and Kevin Nash. Only feud he came out of badly was with his mate Shawn
• Undertaker. His career hit a poor patch during this period IMO - the "Big Evil" gimmick sucked and most of his matches were poor
• Goldberg not winning at Summerslam 03' - the fans were ready for him to be champion and losing killed his momentum
• WHAT?

 

[MarcMaverick]

I stopped watching wrestling from late 04' to about Wrestlemania 2011 so I didn't experience this entire period.

Stuff I liked

• The rise of guys like Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit and Brock Lesnar
• Kurt Angle continuing his ascension to one of the best of all time
• Eric Bischoff as GM and most of what that entailed
• Paul Heyman

What I didn't like

• The pasteurised version of the nWo appearing mere months after the Invasion
• Hulk Hogan in general with the exception of his appearances at Wrestlmania X8 and XIX
• HHH burying everyone. Seriously in an 18 month period he went over RVD, Booker T, Scott Steiner, Goldberg and Kevin Nash. Only feud he came out of badly was with his mate Shawn
• Undertaker. His career hit a poor patch during this period IMO - the "Big Evil" gimmick sucked and most of his matches were poor
• Goldberg not winning at Summerslam 03' - the fans were ready for him to be champion and losing killed his momentum
• WHAT?

I don't know. I think by him having this gimmick bought his career a decade or so. At least 6 years. I believe that if it wasn't for American Bad-Ass/Big Evil era He would have retired in 2005. Hey he has been around for almost 3 decades and has seen the New Generation-Attitude Era-Ruthless Aggression Era-Post Ruthless Aggression Era to the PG era. And that was just in the WWF/E. He was in WCW as Mean Mark Callous and that's when he put his foot in the door.

Yeah that kinda sucked considering that he was red hot at the time. I had a hunch that it was something to do with him wasting all of Bischoff NWO cronies back in WCW and Eric was still bitter about it.

That was the modern day prototype for SuperCena and SuperOrton and SuperSheamus. I also think that he performed badly against Benoit. All those listed should have been WHC at least for 2 months, but because HHH was a whining baby the rest was history.

I loved that they had WCW(Eric Bishcoff) and ECW(Paul Heyman) and they provided some weird and wacky ideas that were not thought of by Vince McBland. RAW roulette, Elimination Chamber, Unsanctioned Matches, Three Stages of Hell. Rising of new stars. I could on and on about this point but it would make this post a wall of text and thus a tl;dr post.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

I had a hunch that it was something to do with him wasting all of Bischoff NWO cronies back in WCW and Eric was still bitter about it.

I thought Bischoff in WWE was employed for his on screen role and didn't have any actual booking power?

 

[PVF]

I loved this era in the WWE.

-The Crusierweight division was ******* awesome with Rey Mysertio, Paul London, Gregory Helms, Tajiri and probably s**t load more I'm missing.

-I miss the brand exclusive PPV's. It actual builded up matches alot better because it was a two month build-up compared to just a month now. And it was actually exciting when two wrestlers from different brands would crash the other show and feud with eachother.

-This was when Cena was actually really good and I was a fan of his.

-I actually remember there was a time when Smackdown! was actually better than RAW during this time.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

I actually remember there was a time when Smackdown! was actually better than RAW during this time.

I remember quite a few people saying that. Apart from not being live it was treated as equal.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

This is the period I started watching so I'm pretty familiar with it all.

While it had some great moments it also had some very boring peridods and in many respects was the sign of things to come.

Wrestlemania XX to Wrestlemania 21 is a very underrated time I think. Guys like Eddie and Benoit were given the world championships for the first time, Orton won his first world title, JBL had one of my favourite reigns as WWE champion (this is the time I think PVF is referring to when he says Smackdown! was better than RAW) not to mention the mid card in that time with guys like Angle, Jericho, Edge Batista, HHH and Booker T.

Things started to change after WM 21 as Cena and Batista were champs. Cena's run started out okay with a cool rivalry with Christian and Jericho, but by the time he was through with Jericho, Cena was already getting booed. Cena held the title until December before Edge cashed in MITB only for Cena to win it back at the Royal Rumble, while Batista after obliterationg the Smackdown roster vacated the title due to an injury which led to Angle being the new champ.

It picked up again in 06, as the ECW One Night Stand made a bigger impact, RVD was great as both ECW and WWE champ and for a while there it was unpredictable with a three way rivarly between him Cena and Edge. Bobby Lashley came in very Ryback-esque on smackdown and Mr Kennedy quickly became my favourite wrestler during Jericho's time off. MVP was also the other debutant that I thought was crazy good. Funny how none of these three ever made it big in the WWE.

After a woeful wrestlemania 22 I wouldn't order another PPV until Jericho's return at Armeggedon 2007. Before this, Edge and Undertaker started their year long rivalry after Undertaker had beaten Batista, thier match at Wrestlemania 24 is incredibly underrated and I would say it was the best match of Edge's career. Wrestlemania 24 was in my opinion the best wrestlmania however that ofcourse depends on where you draw the line. Wrestlemania 19 was also fantastic if that qualifies for this era.

Other features of this era was that it was the last time the classic RAW and Smackdown! titantrons were used, when WWE went into HD that's when it all changed to what we have now. When did they start calling us the 'WWE Universe'?

It was also probably the peak for women's wrestling. Trish and Lita had some great matches and feuds, Trish also had a very good match with Mickie James at Wrestlemania 22.

All that and I didn't have to research anything

 

[Lensen]

it was ******* terrible but gets looked back on fondly with rose coloured glasses

for every lesnar/guerreros etc bit of awesomeness there was triple h boring everyone to bits or trying to push scrubs like rodney mack

it was just as dull and stale as it is now, just that nothing much has really changed since to the appearance and format of the show

 

[Dont be a lemon]

it was ******* terrible but gets looked back on fondly with rose coloured glasses

...

it was just as dull and stale as it is now, just that nothing much has really changed since to the appearance and format of the show

So WWE has been bad for 11 years?

 

[Uncle_Leo]

The Katie Vick Era?

 

[Lensen]

So WWE has been bad for 11 years?

well, it's never been as good as it was in 2001 let alone before that

 

[Sons_of_a_Gun]

I agree with Lenny, these years are what put me off watching wrestling and am only sporadically watching now, but although there was some individual brilliance, as well as evolution was good, there was some shocking stuff and i really was pissed off with the brand split.
The other problem i had with it is i think 2001 was clearly the best year of wrestling ever and definitely the year i enjoyed the most, and here's why,

Kurt started the year as champ,
Austin and Triple H feud,
Austin wins the rumble, Kane was epic, then Rock takes it off Angle to set up Stone Cold vs the Rock,
Wrestlemania 17 was off the chain, fave PPV of all time, Jericho, The Hardcore title match (Kane, Show, Raven), Angle v Benoit, McMahon vs McMahon, the first TLC, Taker and Trips, and Austin vs Rocky, with the Austin flip and teaming with McMahon. I remember watching that on VCR (LoL) just thinking my life had changed, bit over dramatic i know, but i was a teenager,
Austin teaming with Trips and McMahon feuding with the Hardy's and Kane and Taker,
Angle and Benoit's whole feud was great,
Edges KOTR breakout,
Trips' quad injury,
Invasion angle, now i know this is somewhat controversial but i give it a massive tick. Lots of twists, some great feuds, and stuff to keep you watching, Austins flip, Angles flip and flip back, Austin vs Booker, Austin vs Angle, Rock and Booker, Taker and DDP, Edge and Christian split then feud, Jericho and Rock and i'm sure lots more, Some great stuff there,
Jericho's winning as big underdog, and reign as Undisputed Champion.
Into 2002 and Trips' return at the rumble.

Easily my fave year of wrestling and the crud today doesn't compare IMO. Off to download WM X-seven and watch it for the 27th time.

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

Great topic to discuss. And a great period in WWE history aswell. I for one thought this was a very successful time for WWE and was one I enjoyed thoroughly. Just a few points to that era in comparsion to todays PG era and how I believe WWE can learn from its past success.

• The Brand extension was obviously more successful back in 2003-08 due to the marquee talent on the companys roster during this time. Just think, of all the names in their prime character wise, available at all shows. Its still enough to make your mouth water now. RAW posessed Triple H, Goldberg, The Rock (Hollywood), Steve Austin, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Batista, Booker T, RVD, Kane, Scott Steiner, Christian (who at the time was really onto something), Edge, Ric Flair, Randy Orton & Eric Bischoff. SmackDown! posessed Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, John Cena, JBL, Big Show, Eddie Guerrero, Rhyno, Worlds Greatest Tag Team and all the Cruiserweights. The roster will never again become that strong, but I believe if SmackDown! was actually given a damn and more marquee players and storylines, then WWE's brand extension could actually continue to prosper

• One thing I cannot get my head around is why WWE got rid of the Cruiserweight Championship or more to the point, dropped the whole concept all together. Great high flying Cruiser action is what gave WCW an extra bow in its huge climb and successful ratings lead in the MNW's. The same goes for the lack of Tag-Team wrestling, and Im talking real tag teams not just a plodder partnered with Kofi Kingston every 2 months. You can't tell me in 5 hours of TV a week, 6 including Main Event, that there is no room for a Cruiserweight belt. Why not give all the smaller talents hopelessly floating around the company a reason. A chance to fight for a cause and not just job. The Cruiserweights provided some amazing characters too (see Jamie Noble, Hurricane, Chavo). Exciting mathes are what peopler want, and surely there is time on SmackDown! (Instead of two segments dedicated to a RAW Rebound) for a Cruiserweight story and more original tag teams

• I liked the Brand Extension then because each show had its own personality. I really preferred the different stages each show had. RAW with the giant Titantron and SD! with the huge fist. Each brand felt like you were watching different promotions. When you tune into RAW or SD! now its all the same set, a great set nonetheless, but theres no character to the shows. White universal ropes? Please go back to the red and blue respectively. If production crew was able to construct two different stages back then, well they sure as hell can now. The new HD set marked the end of SmackDown! as anything but a 2nd rate wannabe and took away its individuality when in reality its a huge phenominal on its own, 700+ shows in.

• Last but not least, I loved how in the brand extension era you could see the crowd, filled up to the high rafters. You could see the massive arenas. These days WWE always black out the crowd and only have those dim red or blue lights on the crowd. Obviously crowd numbers are well down on past era's and the high seats are tarped off. WWE don't wanna highlight empty seats. But even sold out crowds are darkened off. I just believe it gives such a big event feel watching at home to see the nose bleeds seats jam packed and an impression of an arena full. WWE are clever and only sell opposite camera side first, so please WWE give us light!

 

[NSWCROW]

I basically missed all of 2002-2003
1st thing i saw when i got Fox back was the raw after WM20

 

[NitroFan]

Hardly mouth watering roster, even on paper and much less so in practice. hhh was an incredible bore and his dominance and saturation of the shows was at an absurd level. steiners only memorable moments were swearing when he debuted and having an atrocious match against hhh at the rumble. rock and austin were both gone pretty early on in the period. goldberg wasnt around for too long and after a great debut didnt do a whole lot.

And a successful period for wwe? it was actually a pretty bad period buisness wise. iirc thier worst ever buyrate (to that point. not sure if it still is) was recorded in 2004. and i would be amazed if attendances are down now on what they were in 2003-2005 at least. do you have some statistics to support the 'obvious' claim of attendances being down now?

It makes me laugh a little seeing such a positive response to the period. having been on the iwc for that entire time i can say with a great deal of confidence that the general feelings towards wwe werent disimilar to what they are now.

 

[Lensen]

look on the positive side, NitroFan

in 2023 we can read about how cena/orton/sheamus etc were all super exciting to watch, never boring and that this was a true golden era

 

[Biggy_Boy]

It makes me laugh a little seeing such a positive response to the period. having been on the iwc for that entire time i can say with a great deal of confidence that the general feeling towards wwe werent disimilar to what they are now.

Yep. Strange to see people reminiscing about it fondly. From what I recall, the online response to the product was very similar to how it is now.

The rosters back then certainly weren't that strong. Triple H completely dominated on RAW for several years, whilst Smack Down was so devoid of talent, they made JBL carry the title for a year.

I did like Bischoff as GM though.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

steiners only memorable moments were swearing when he debuted and having an atrocious match against hhh at the rumble.

Wrestled for the World Heavyweight Championship (when it was Raw's belt) at the Royal Rumble and the February PPV, then was dropped completely for WrestleMania

in 2023 we can read about how cena/orton/sheamus etc were all super exciting to watch, never boring and that this was a true golden era

s**t... today's kids/teens in ten years will really say that :|

Hopefully I won't be... how much does culture change in 10 year segments?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Have you seen 2004 movie Team America: World Police? WWE at this time was similar. But whereas that movie was satirical comedy, Vince McMahon played US nationalism completely straight. It was over the top - peaking in awfulness with Muhammad Hassan - and a big shift from the Attitude Era's anti-political correctness, anti-authoritah themes.

 

[Bomberboyokay]