Confirmed Brayden Sier [re-signed]

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Elmer_Judd

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He certainly hasn't come on like expected, ATM though his trade value isn't high and has shown the ability to be in our very best side, I'd prefer to hold ATM.

The kid pretty much played no elite football as a junior, has big upside IMO.
Yeah I suspect the Pies are probably better off keeping him than trading him if you are bullish on his upside, cause his current currency is pretty much only 10 cents in the dollar .

Pies need to trade back into the draft though and Sier may want to seek Greener pastures elsewhere.

Frankly i think The Pies might be best served to try package him and Aish to a club like Gold Coast for a 2nd round(ish) pick.

I think the Pies will make some wholesale changes to your list and hit the draft.
 

THE_GUN

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Big bodied mids often take longer to come on, isn't worth selling him now as he has very low trade value, we're better off rolling the dice in the hope he improves.
yeah not worth selling now as you would get nothing for him , Maybe fix up some of his off field issue's and might get a bite
 

Quicky

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Yeah I suspect the Pies are probably better off keeping him than trading him if you are bullish on his upside, cause his current currency is pretty much only 10 cents in the dollar .

Pies need to trade back into the draft though and Sier may want to seek Greener pastures elsewhere.

Frankly i think The Pies might be best served to try package him and Aish to a club like Gold Coast for a 2nd round(ish) pick.

I think the Pies will make some wholesale changes to your list and hit the draft.
We will make changes but it will be to injured aging players like Wells, Goldsack, Reid, Dunn. Not to guys like Aish and Sier and certianly not for a 2nd rounder. Why would we get rid of two young players who have both been featuring in the best 22 for one 2nd rounder. It makes no sense.
 

THE_GUN

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We will make changes but it will be to injured aging players like Wells, Goldsack, Reid, Dunn. Not to guys like Aish and Sier and certianly not for a 2nd rounder. Why would we get rid of two young players who have both been featuring in the best 22 for one 2nd rounder. It makes no sense.
If these 2 players are in your best 22 it might be time for a rebuild
 

Frank Gallagher

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Yeah I suspect the Pies are probably better off keeping him than trading him if you are bullish on his upside, cause his current currency is pretty much only 10 cents in the dollar .

Pies need to trade back into the draft though and Sier may want to seek Greener pastures elsewhere.

Frankly i think The Pies might be best served to try package him and Aish to a club like Gold Coast for a 2nd round(ish) pick.

I think the Pies will make some wholesale changes to your list and hit the draft.
Aish won't be going anywhere unless he requests a trade, and if he does it'll be to a SA club.

As for Sier, he stood up under intense finals pressure last year, he has what it takes, he's had an interrupted season so far, if we traded everyone who had a down year in similar circumstances we wouldn't be able to field a team.
 

Quicky

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If these 2 players are in your best 22 it might be time for a rebuild
Aish has been playing as our third small defender and has had a good season following his return from injury. He isn't a critical guy but he's been good.

Sier at his best is pretty awesome (see below) but he has been a long way off that this year.

The idea of trading them both for a single 2nd rounder is very unlikely.

 
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Frank Gallagher

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If these 2 players are in your best 22 it might be time for a rebuild
We have 22 players unavailable, lose a few more and we'll have to ask for special permission to play unlisted players from our VFL side, the only rebuild needed is of our off field staff.
 

Elmer_Judd

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We have 22 players unavailable, lose a few more and we'll have to ask for special permission to play unlisted players from our VFL side, the only rebuild needed is of our off field staff.
To be harsh but honest, sometimes you have to cut your losses with players with a history of chronic/recurring injuries. Not saying this is the case with Sier, but in a general sense.
 

Frank Gallagher

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To be harsh but honest, sometimes you have to cut your losses with players with a history of chronic/recurring injuries. Not saying this is the case with Sier, but in a general sense.
Don't get me started man, we've made a lot of very poor decisions in retaining injured players, I for one want Moore gone, dude will miss as many games as he plays IMO, he's left us a man down that many times I've lost count.
 

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THE_GUN

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We have 22 players unavailable, lose a few more and we'll have to ask for special permission to play unlisted players from our VFL side, the only rebuild needed is of our off field staff.
Stop trading for injury riddled players - Simple
Im sure you have seen this list before

Its the same players that are injured every year

there are plenty who have missed more games than him over the past 4 years
72 Broomhead
62 Elliott
61 Goldsack
59 Scharenberg (missed 99 over 6)
53 Wells (in 3 years)
44 Reid

41 Langdon
40 Aish
36 Dunn (in 3 years)
34 Beams
32 Varcoe
30 Moore

24 Adams
24 Greenwood
19 De Goey


If Collingwood assemble and retain a list like the above then cant complain about injuries
 

THE_GUN

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Aish has been playing as our third small defender and has had a good season following his return from injury. He isn't a critical guy but he's been good.

Sier at his best is pretty awesome (see below) but he has been a long way off that this year.

The idea of trading them both for a single 2nd rounder is ridiclous.

I honestly dont see anything special in Sier , Even Relton Roberts has a good highlight clip but surely 4 years for 18 games and still cant play more than 60% game time.

Your team is going into games a player short
 

barrackers

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Stop trading for injury riddled players - Simple
Im sure you have seen this list before

Its the same players that are injured every year

there are plenty who have missed more games than him over the past 4 years
72 Broomhead
62 Elliott
61 Goldsack
59 Scharenberg (missed 99 over 6)
53 Wells (in 3 years)
44 Reid

41 Langdon
40 Aish
36 Dunn (in 3 years)
34 Beams
32 Varcoe
30 Moore

24 Adams
24 Greenwood
19 De Goey


If Collingwood assemble and retain a list like the above then cant complain about injuries
If only it was so simple - most we break, as opposed to being recruited broken. From your list over half (Broomhead, Elliott, Goldsack, Scharenberg, Reid, Langdon, Moore and DeGoey) we drafted. Although Goldsack only manage 4 AFL games in 2016, he missed just 6 games through injury the remainder were played in the VFL, this year he's played most VFL games too, so his injury figure is at best half the 61 mentioned. Similarly Broomhead has played a lot of VFL footy; he chalked up 50 VFL games a couple of weeks back.

Of the other 7 Wells is the only one we haven't got value out of and it's too soon to judge Beams' return.

Wells - Was a free agent, however 3 out of 14 seasons at NM he played more than 18 games, admittedly 2 of his last 3 years at North were injury affected (2, 10 and 19 games the year immediately prior to us recruiting him). Played 10 games in his first season in black and white, and hasn't got close to that since. Effectively replaced Swan, those career was unexpectedly cut short, but we shouldn't have given Wells more than 2 seasons.

Aish - only 2 seasons at BL playing 21 and 11 (3 NEAFL) games. He's played more than a few VFL games, so those numbers you provided are inflated, including VFL he's played 19, 17 and 16 games in his first 3 CFC seasons. An impact injury has cut into the back end of his fourth season.

Dunn - excluding this year, his previous 7 seasons have yielded 18 (2 VFL), 18 (1 VFL), 22, 22, 4 (14 VFL), 17 (2 VFL), and 4 games in 2018 before doing his knee twice

Beams - 11 AFL seasons with 5 seasons of less than 18 games - 2011 (16 AFL, 1 VFL), 2013 (8, 1 VFL due to a groin injury), 2015 (16), 2016 (2 games due to shoulder & knee injuries) and 2019

Varcoe - 13 AFL seasons with 6 seasons of less than 18 games - 2008 (16 AFL, u/k VFL), 2012 (1 AFL, 1 VFL), 2013 (14 AFL, 2 VFL), 2016 (17 AFL), 2017 (8 AFL, 1 VFL). He's played 3 VFL games alongside his 12 AFL games this year. 2 badly interrupted years at Geelong, however he also put together two sound years immediately before we recruited him. 1 badly interrupted year at Collingwood. Varcoe was acquired through the trade of Lumumba who's long since retired.

Adams - 15 AFL, 4 NEAFL and 12 AFL, 2 NEAFL, 1 suspension in his only two seasons at the giants. Only 12 AFL games in his first year with us, but also played 4 VFL games, was suspended once and a held over emergency before missing 4 games with a finger injury. 18 games and 2 suspended in 2015. 14 AFL games in 2016 with the rest missed through three different injuries (knee, hamstring, ankle). 22 and 23 games in 2017 and 2018.

Greenwood - played a lot of VFL before breaking through in his last season at NM. In that last season he played 22 games, missing 2 through injury. Missed his first 10 matches with us through injury, but only missed 1 VFL match thereafter and played 21 games in his second season at Collingwood. 16 AFL in 2017 and 16 AFL, 3 VFL in 2018.
 
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THE_GUN

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If only it was so simple - most we break, as opposed to being recruited broken. From your list over half (Broomhead, Elliott, Goldsack, Scharenberg, Reid, Langdon, Moore and DeGoey) we drafted. Although Goldsack only manage 4 AFL games in 2016, he missed just 6 games through injury the remainder were played in the VFL, this year he's played most VFL games too, so his injury figure is at best half the 61 mentioned. Similarly Broomhead has played a lot of VFL footy; he chalked up 50 VFL games a couple of weeks back.

Of the other 7 Wells is the only one we haven't got value out of and it's too soon to judge Beams' return.

Wells - Was a free agent, however 3 out of 14 seasons at NM he played more than 18 games, admittedly 2 of his last 3 years at North were injury affected (2, 10 and 19 games the year immediately prior to us recruiting him). Played 10 games in his first season in black and white, and hasn't got close to that since. Effectively replaced Swan, those career was unexpectedly cut short, but we shouldn't have given Wells more than 2 seasons.

Aish - only 2 seasons at BL playing 21 and 11 (3 NEAFL) games. He's played more than a few VFL games, so those numbers you provided are inflated, including VFL he's played 19, 17 and 16 games in his first 3 CFC seasons. An impact injury has cut into the back end of his fourth season.

Dunn - excluding this year, his previous 7 seasons have yielded 18 (2 VFL), 18 (1 VFL), 22, 22, 4 (14 VFL), 17 (2 VFL), and 4 games in 2018 before doing his knee twice

Beams - 11 AFL seasons with 5 seasons of less than 18 games - 2011 (16 AFL, 1 VFL), 2013 (8, 1 VFL due to a groin injury), 2015 (16), 2016 (2 games due to shoulder & knee injuries) and 2019

Varcoe - 13 AFL seasons with 6 seasons of less than 18 games - 2008 (16 AFL, u/k VFL), 2012 (1 AFL, 1 VFL), 2013 (14 AFL, 2 VFL), 2016 (17 AFL), 2017 (8 AFL, 1 VFL). He's played 3 VFL games alongside his 12 AFL games this year. 2 badly interrupted years at Geelong, however he also put together two sound years immediately before we recruited him. 1 badly interrupted year at Collingwood. Varcoe was acquired through the trade of Lumumba who's long since retired.

Adams - 15 AFL, 4 NEAFL and 12 AFL, 2 NEAFL, 1 suspension in his only two seasons at the giants. Only 12 AFL games in his first year with us, but also played 4 VFL games, was suspended once and a held over emergency before missing 4 games with a finger injury. 18 games and 2 suspended in 2015. 14 AFL games in 2016 with the rest missed through three different injuries (knee, hamstring, ankle). 22 and 23 games in 2017 and 2018.

Greenwood - played a lot of VFL before breaking through in his last season at NM. In that last season he played 22 games, missing 2 through injury. Missed his first 10 matches with us through injury, but only missed 1 VFL match thereafter and played 21 games in his second season at Collingwood. 16 AFL in 2017 and 16 AFL, 3 VFL in 2018.
Everything you hav posted even with the optimistic spin pretty much backs up my point, How the players were acquired really doesnt matter but more the players being unable to stay on the park.

Wells , Scharenberg , Broomhead , Elliot , Moore and even past players like fosolo who have moved on , Collingwood has a record of keeping too many injury prone players for way too long on the list.

Scharenberg i rated highly as a draftee but fact remains he is nearly 24 years old and 30 odd games and also 1 injury away from being just about a do not touch type player.

The list manager has been far too kind with these players and needs to be questioned about the players that have arrived from other clubs with injury clouds over them
 

Quicky

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I honestly dont see anything special in Sier , Even Relton Roberts has a good highlight clip but surely 4 years for 18 games and still cant play more than 60% game time.

Your team is going into games a player short
Sier was always going to take time. He didn't play TAC footy so was going to need development. He showed what he's capable of in 2018 and contributed plenty to our on field performance, even with limited game time. Looking at the numbers our best centre clearance combination included Sier. We won more of them when he was in there. Averaging over 20 disposals from that 60% game time and I don't know how you can conclude we were playing a guy short, looking at last year. This year he has struggled with injuries which has affected form. I guess we all view the game differently but if you can't see some talent there I'd suggest you're a poor judge.
 

THE_GUN

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Sier was always going to take time. He didn't play TAC footy so was going to need development. He showed what he's capable of in 2018 and contributed plenty to our on field performance, even with limited game time. Looking at the numbers our best centre clearance combination included Sier. We won more of them when he was in there. Averaging over 20 disposals from that 60% game time and I don't know how you can conclude we were playing a guy short, looking at last year. This year he has struggled with injuries which has affected form. I guess we all view the game differently but if you can't see some talent there I'd suggest you're a poor judge.
You see thats the thing , You are going by a hand full of games rather than his career to date

hate to bring up a player who richmond selected ahead of franklin but even Tamblings games when you look at certin blocks in isolation looked good

Sier in his 4th year and still only played 18 games of which 12 would have been extremely ordinary

When a player goes into a game and can only play 60% game time and get 15/16 touches going at 65%

I think thats going in a man down as its restricting your rotations

Sier would need to have a massive year next year to even be on an AFL list with what he has been able to produce so far

but hey im not saying he is a totally lost cause just that he has not shown anywhere near the level as whats been hyped by Pies supporters
 

Quicky

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You see thats the thing , You are going by a hand full of games rather than his career to date

hate to bring up a player who richmond selected ahead of franklin but even Tamblings games when you look at certin blocks in isolation looked good

Sier in his 4th year and still only played 18 games of which 12 would have been extremely ordinary

When a player goes into a game and can only play 60% game time and get 15/16 touches going at 65%

I think thats going in a man down as its restricting your rotations

Sier would need to have a massive year next year to even be on an AFL list with what he has been able to produce so far

but hey im not saying he is a totally lost cause just that he has not shown anywhere near the level as whats been hyped by Pies supporters
I provided context regarding Siers development, his encouraging performances last year and the cause of his poor form this year. You're welcome to ignore that if you want but it's important for context.
 

barrackers

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Everything you hav posted even with the optimistic spin pretty much backs up my point, How the players were acquired really doesnt matter but more the players being unable to stay on the park.

Wells , Scharenberg , Broomhead , Elliot , Moore and even past players like fosolo who have moved on , Collingwood has a record of keeping too many injury prone players for way too long on the list.

Scharenberg i rated highly as a draftee but fact remains he is nearly 24 years old and 30 odd games and also 1 injury away from being just about a do not touch type player.

The list manager has been far too kind with these players and needs to be questioned about the players that have arrived from other clubs with injury clouds over them
Undoubtably, at lest St Kilda were kind enough to poach Nathan Freeman, even if I didn't like the deal at the time.
 

Seedsfan

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injuries & lack of pre season ?

when will he get fit enough to have a pre season, Looks like wont happen
Given Collingwood’s track record it’s equally as likely to be poorly managed as it is his body failing
 

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