Brayshaw and Cerra.

[arsesmart]

Honestly, almost every single time I would be trading pick 1 out for a top 5 pick and another first.

Its stupidly over-rated to the point of absurdity, like you said, its not the NBA, its a team game and 2 picks are worth so much more than 1.

Depends on the draft pool at that top end though (and where your list is at).

 

[wayToGo_]

Everyone says this and his goals last night were great but who would you rather have, Walters leading and getting dunked on time after time in the forwardline or be the player actually kicking inside 50? Walters has had a pretty poor season overall with the role given to him, it's easy to complain about his attitude but if the way we're using him isn't working then something should change.

He can't be the guy kicking inside 50 playing as a half forward? He's an excellent midfielder but we've got 3 gun elite tracking mids under 21yo that run exceptionally well both ways. He wants to be a leader and our forward line needs leaders. It's not like he hasn't shown he can impact as a pure small forward as he did for years alongside his mate Ballas.

 

[Taylor]

Any lack of team success that there may be is probably less to do with the player going #1 (and the value they bring) and more to do with the side picking them.

That is a good point. A significant number of first round picks have changed clubs in the last 20 years of the draft. Finishing bottom to get the first pick might carry some serious baggage that leads to those players moving elsewhere, or the team not progressing - changes of coach etc.

Hodge was taken with pick #1, but they didn't finish last for it.
Headland was taken with an earned pick #1.
Boyd wasn't selected by the club he won the flag with.
Banfield was taken at #1 by the club he won the flag with, but it was Sydney's priority pick they took him with.

 

[tacopavlich]

He can't be the guy kicking inside 50 playing as a half forward? He's an excellent midfielder but we've got 3 gun elite tracking mids under 21yo that run exceptionally well both ways. He wants to be a leader and our forward line needs leaders. It's not like he hasn't shown he can impact as a pure small forward as he did for years alongside his mate Ballas.

It's hard to be a leader when you're having no impact, which he is in the role he's been given. All I'm saying is he has way too much talent to just shove him in a role that's not working for him and shrug our shoulders. It's up to the coaching staff to get the most out of our players, and if we want success next year or the year after Walters is an important part of that.

 

[arsesmart]

That is a good point. A significant number of first round picks have changed clubs in the last 20 years of the draft. Finishing bottom to get the first pick might carry some serious baggage that leads to those players moving elsewhere, or the team not progressing - changes of coach etc.

Hodge was taken with pick #1, but they didn't finish last for it.
Headland was taken with an earned pick #1.
Boyd wasn't selected by the club he won the flag with.
Banfield was taken at #1 by the club he won the flag with, but it was Sydney's priority pick they took him with.

Absolutely. A team like modern-era Carltoon has more been in the business of collecting #1 picks rather than finals.

 

[Taylor]

Absolutely. A team like modern-era Carltoon has more been in the business of collecting #1 picks rather than finals.

It also says to me that if you have a chance to secure a #1 pick while being higher up the ladder, it can really work out for you.

 

[wayToGo_]

It's hard to be a leader when you're having no impact, which he is in the role he's been given. All I'm saying is he has way too much talent to just shove him in a role that's not working for him and shrug our shoulders. It's up to the coaching staff to get the most out of our players, and if we want success next year or the year after Walters is an important part of that.

Possibly yet another sign we need a much better forward line coach but Walters also needs to also take some personal responsibility. That is literally the definition of what a leader does. He is a small forward - he's not being played out of position. I suspect if you asked Walters he'd say it's on him to step up.

 

[tacopavlich]

Possibly yet another sign we need a much better forward line coach but Walters also needs to also take some personal responsibility. That is literally the definition of what a leader does. He is a small forward - he's not being played out of position. I suspect if you asked Walters he'd say it's on him to step up.

While true, good coaching is about nuance and flexibility. If he was just a run off the mil small forward I would be inclined to agree, but he's one of our best players and more importantly one of our highest skilled players. Having a stubborn "Walters should play X role drink a cup of concrete if he doesn't like it" seems like an awful way to go about things.

 

[wayToGo_]

While true, good coaching is about nuance and flexibility. If he was just a run off the mil small forward I would be inclined to agree, but he's one of our best players and more importantly one of our highest skilled players. Having a stubborn "Walters should play X role drink a cup of concrete if he doesn't like it" seems like an awful way to go about things.

No actually that is very much the best way to coach. Because you want to create a champion team not a team of champions. Players are paid to play, and they should all be willing to play whatever role is deemed in the best interests of the team by the coach, even if that role isn't exactly what they want to. All the best teams are the best because all 22 are committed to playing the role assigned to them.

 

[tacopavlich]

No actually that is very much the best way to coach. Because you want to create a champion team not a team of champions. Players are paid to play, and they should all be willing to play whatever role is deemed in the best interests of the team by the coach, even if that role isn't exactly what they want to. All the best teams are the best because all 22 are committed to playing the role assigned to them.

And finding the best roles for your players is also important, as well as getting the most out of your best players. A champion team is a team where each player is playing to their strengths. Are Freo so overflowing with talented ball users that we can be happy to relegate Walters to just a role player? Your argument is the type of thought process that saw Pavlich playing midfield under Harvey. A role that was deemed more important for the team at the time, rather than play to his strengths and get the most out of our best players.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Honestly, almost every single time I would be trading pick 1 out for a top 5 pick and another first.

Its stupidly over-rated to the point of absurdity, like you said, its not the NBA, its a team game and 2 picks are worth so much more than 1.

I don’t think I can argue with that logic. When there’s only 5 on the court, 1 player makes a huge difference, completely different to AFL.

At times with the very high picks it’s almost like they are closer to their
ceiling because they are dominating the competition they were selected from.

They are physically & mentally ready to go virtually straight away, but some of them don’t have much growth beyond what is a pretty high starting point.

Then there’s others who aren’t quite physically or mentally there yet, but are every bit as good, if not better. You get a recruiter who develops that formula & he would be worth his weight in gold.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Mitch doesn't need a fan

Mitch Crowden - Haiku

Looks like Gladstone Small
Tackles like a maniac
Needs to find more ball

 

[wayToGo_]

And finding the best roles for your players is also important, as well as getting the most out of your best players. A champion team is a team where each player is playing to their strengths. Are Freo so overflowing with talented ball users that we can be happy to relegate Walters to just a role player? Your argument is the type of thought process that saw Pavlich playing midfield under Harvey. A role that was deemed more important for the team at the time, rather than play to his strengths and get the most out of our best players.

Still aren't reading what I am writing. I am saying every player should first think they are a role player as part of a team. Our team defence doesn't work unless all 18 on the field are working as one. They can be more than a role player, but if they aren't playing their allocated role first then they are letting their team down.

Walters is a small forward. Does anybody on this planet not think he is a small forward? Yes he can play as a midfielder as well but he can play both roles - hence being a mid/fwd. Clearly Justin wants to develop our young midfield. You put Sonny in the middle and that takes away an opportunity from a young mid who is probably also a lot better running defensively.

Comparing the situation to what happened with Harvey is just a really dumb comparison.

 

[tacopavlich]

Still aren't reading what I am writing. I am saying every player should first think they are a role player as part of a team. Our team defence doesn't work unless all 18 on the field are working as one. They can be more than a role player, but if they aren't playing their allocated role first then they are letting their team down.

Walters is a small forward. Does anybody on this planet not think he is a small forward? Yes he can play as a midfielder as well but he can play both roles - hence being a mid/fwd. Clearly Justin wants to develop our young midfield. You put Sonny in the middle and that takes away an opportunity from a young mid who is probably also a lot better running defensively.

Comparing the situation to what happened with Harvey is just a really dumb comparison.

clearly we aren't on the same page and you're also not getting what I'm saying either so I'll leave it at that. It's ok to disagree with me but don't be rude about it.

 

[Ysaye]

Mitch Crowden - Haiku

Looks like Gladstone Small
Tackles like a maniac
Needs to find more ball

Gladstone Small? Showing your age there a bit IP!

 

[masai]

Gladstone Small? Showing your age there a bit IP!

Reminds of the skit from Red Faces, that had some chaps doing impressions to a song. They were “doing the Gladstone Small”.

Necking was not his strong suit.

 

[Joao]

Mitch Crowden - Haiku

Looks like Gladstone Small
Tackles like a maniac
Needs to find more ball

I'm with Ysaye here.

Gladstone Small? Showing your age there a bit IP!

 

[ImperialPurple]

Gladstone Small? Showing your age there a bit IP!

I'm with Ysaye here.

Don’t see anyone disagreeing with me


(In my defence I did gave to google ‘name of no neck cricketer’... and there he was. Then the memories came flooding back! )

 

[Joao]

Don’t see anyone disagreeing with me

Well, Mitch obviously rocking a nice tan but got a fair way to get to Small in the skin tone stakes.

 

[Ysaye]

Don’t see anyone disagreeing with me


(In my defence I did gave to google ‘name of no neck cricketer’... and there he was. Then the memories came flooding back! )

Yes to be fair I also knew exactly who and what you were getting at...guess that means i'm also exposed to my own comment?

 

[Bring back Drum]

Top votes for Cerra from the coaches.

Also shows how important 3 goals are in conditions like those.

Votes v Melbourne
10 – Adam Cerra (FREO)
8 – Michael Walters (FREO)
6 – David Mundy (FREO)
2 – Nat Fyfe (FREO)
2 – Blake Acres (FREO)
1 – Nathan Wilson (FREO)
1 – Jack Viney (MELB)

 

[theGav56]

Any lack of team success that there may be is probably less to do with the player going #1 (and the value they bring) and more to do with the side picking them.

Exactly. They are drafted by the bottom side for a start.