Preview Breaking the final hoodoo - Geelong v Brisbane Lions (Friday, 20 June 2025, 740pm)

[Section 5]

Below our defense lineup in the 2023 grand final with Payne being injured at that time.

Out: Coleman & McKenna
IN: Zorko and Answerth

[37] Brandon Starcevich

37

Brandon Starcevich

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

185.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

187.9

3star

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

181.2

3star

,[31] Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

28

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

,[27] Darcy Gardiner

27

Darcy Gardiner

Age

29

Ht

192cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

[35] Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

33

Ht

190cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

,(44) Darcy Wilmot [18] Keidean Coleman,

[26] Conor McKenna,

 

[Sunny Land]

Below our defense lineup in the 2023 grand final with Payne being injured at that time.

Out: Coleman & McKenna
IN: Zorko and Answerth

[37] Brandon Starcevich,[31] Harris Andrews,[27] Darcy Gardiner

[35] Ryan Lester,(44) Darcy Wilmot [18] Keidean Coleman,

[26] Conor McKenna,

If we are up against a 3 pronged KPF team, we are too short. Dizzy is a good option down back & puts his body in the line of fire every time but when up against taller opposition, they will use that as an advantage 100%.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If we are up against a 3 pronged KPF team, we are too short. Dizzy is a good option down back & puts his body in the line of fire every time but when up against taller opposition, they will use that as an advantage 100%.

Other teams get away with it by having a midfield that applies pressure and slows ball movement

That's just become more important for us with the Payne injury.

Also finding someone to help our key backs which is what Doedee was recruited to do and Lester fails to do

 

[Section 5]

If we are up against a 3 pronged KPF team, we are too short. Dizzy is a good option down back & puts his body in the line of fire every time but when up against taller opposition, they will use that as an advantage 100%.

Thats true but it is still a solid back 7
We just need to restrict their F50 entries as a starting point

We are all assuming Dizzy plays because he was pulled out of the VFL.
The club could select Joyce (195cm 96kg) but it's most likely Dizzy (192cm 91kg)

 

[M Malice]

The Cats have 2 elite endurance ball runners on the wings in Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

and Max Holmes, we need to match that run, we need to have Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

and Jaspa Fletcher as our 2 biggest minutes wingers, Levi will not be able to keep up with that run IMO.

 

[twhowler]

The Cats have 2 elite endurance ball runners on the wings in Bailey Smith and Max Holmes, we need to match that run, we need to have Jarrod Berry and Jaspa Fletcher as our 2 biggest minutes wingers, Levi will not be able to keep up with that run IMO.

Agree with this

Time for Levi to find better form in the 2s rather than just slotting him in on a wing.

Kardinia is narrow but long. End to end means some fast breaks. If we are not on mentally and willing to run hard we will get smacked.

Bruce would be a good shout for third wing this week.

Surely McLachlan comes in. Will apply pressure. I like having a leftie small forward too.

I don’t think Dizzy is a downgrade this week at all. Will be slippery and on the ground which is not Payne’s strength. Harris can take Neale and be accountable (his floating around in the vicinity of Hogan in the second half was absurd).

It’s a great test at this stage of the year, but unfortunately for us we have let our season slip so a 1-2 goal loss is not going to help.

We were 7-1! 2-3-1 since. Officially given up our flying start.

Pies were 6-1. Now 11-2

If we lose this week we would be out of the convo for top 2 as well given it would put the cats 2 games clear and a very easy draw to come.

We will likely be 6th after the bye if we lose which is quite a reality check

 

[knaf]

The issues, for me, with our accuracy has been the quality of our forward 50 entries, leading to difficult, under pressure snaps and rushed points. A couple of reasons for this might be because our forward line has not “recovered” form loosing Joe and players are not playing, not sure of or don’t understand their roles. General lack of cohesion.

So the midfield doesn’t have clear targets because leading patterns aren’t working, resulting in just kicking long to a contested situation. Morris becoming the main target and Day playing a clear role seemed to improve the situation abit, but we still had four players flying for marks.

Players like Charlie and Kai being out of form is contributing as I think they try to hard to get into the game rather than play their roles. In addition once one player misses an easy shot it creates pressure on the the next shooter.

Not unsolvable issues, but a test for Fages.

 

[twhowler]

The issues, for me, with our accuracy has been the quality of our forward 50 entries, leading to difficult, under pressure snaps and rushed points. A couple of reasons for this might be because our forward line has not “recovered” form loosing Joe and players are not playing, not sure of or don’t understand their roles. General lack of cohesion.

So the midfield doesn’t have clear targets because leading patterns aren’t working, resulting in just kicking long to a contested situation. Morris becoming the main target and Day playing a clear role seemed to improve the situation abit, but we still had four players flying for marks.

Players like Charlie and Kai being out of form is contributing as I think they try to hard to get into the game rather than play their roles. In addition once one player misses an easy shot it creates pressure on the the next shooter.

Not unsolvable issues, but a test for Fages.

Interesting that this is still the view:



I think Cameron and Lohman are so far out of form that to assume they will be firing for finals is a stretch.

Feels to me like a classic case of reputation masking the reality

I do think we can come back from this but for me saturday was a bit of a turning point. We just consistently drop off when other teams take it up a notch

 

[M Malice]

Agree with this

Time for Levi to find better form in the 2s rather than just slotting him in on a wing.

Kardinia is narrow but long. End to end means some fast breaks. If we are not on mentally and willing to run hard we will get smacked.

Bruce would be a good shout for third wing this week.

Surely McLachlan comes in. Will apply pressure. I like having a leftie small forward too.

I don’t think Dizzy is a downgrade this week at all. Will be slippery and on the ground which is not Payne’s strength. Harris can take Neale and be accountable (his floating around in the vicinity of Hogan in the second half was absurd).

It’s a great test at this stage of the year, but unfortunately for us we have let our season slip so a 1-2 goal loss is not going to help.

We were 7-1! 2-3-1 since. Officially given up our flying start.

Pies were 6-1. Now 11-2

If we lose this week we would be out of the convo for top 2 as well given it would put the cats 2 games clear and a very easy draw to come.

We will likely be 6th after the bye if we lose which is quite a reality check

1- I also really like Bruce Reville, he has a great long kick and his disposal is usually high quality... however his endurance is not a strong point, I wouldn't be putting up against Smith/Holmes, he'd get run off his feet very quickly IMO. I think his best footy and improved endurance and would be a definite asset to our side. Needs a huge off season.

2- I think our top 2 chances are just about done already, the Pies and Cats have a relatively easy run home, I'll concede if we do happen to win on Friday night I'll probably have hope again of snagging a top 2 finish.

3- Can't see McLachlan or Reville coming in, both played a full game in the reserves yesterday and Fagan all but ruled out playing anyone backing up on a 5 day break.

 

[Dalions]

Like we were early last year, we appear to be a team playing for the end of the year rather than being in the present.
The solid start to the year in the W/L ratio has allowed some laziness to creep in and when things get a little tough a bit of panic sets in and then we are done.
I feel we will lift this week to play a much more solid game style but whether that means a win or not is another thing entirely.

Fages has a bit of work to do in the bye to get things back on track and I almost think we are better off having another loss this week, just to really re-set and align with the one focus and a full team approach after the bye.

I often find that our offence works best when it bounces off the defence and personally that needs to be the focus for the rest of the season.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Interesting that this is still the view:



I think Cameron and Lohman are so far out of form that to assume they will be firing for finals is a stretch.

Feels to me like a classic case of reputation masking the reality

I do think we can come back from this but for me saturday was a bit of a turning point. We just consistently drop off when other teams take it up a notch

A bit contradictory with the Joe comments. Mentions we should have kicked more goals the last 2 weeks with composure which would've resulted in big scores

If we'd have done that, had Kai and Charlie somewhere near last year's form and not had Hippy rucking we would be one of the top scoring teams again this year

 

[Gadzorks]

Interesting that this is still the view:



I think Cameron and Lohman are so far out of form that to assume they will be firing for finals is a stretch.

Feels to me like a classic case of reputation masking the reality

I do think we can come back from this but for me saturday was a bit of a turning point. We just consistently drop off when other teams take it up a notch

Love that he calls himself out for Jackson not Jack.

And i think he is right. We are in a great position, we do have structure to sort out at either end now (joe and Jack) but our mid field is elite and our best game can still fall in place.

I'm waiting to see how we come back after the bye.

 

[pod17]

There’s a number of issues, none insurmountable, but some mental shifts need to occur.

The big one, and it’s happened against the Pies, Crows and Giants is that teams around us have really steeled themselves to knock us - the premiers - over. We’ve lacked that killer instinct that we had in our 01-04 teams, or that other dynasties like the Hawks, Cats and Tigers of more recent times. We let the foot off the throat when we are up, kick inaccurately and leave the door ajar. It’s happened even when we’ve won - I can only think of a handful of times where we have handed out a serious thumping.

When we smashed the Hawks a couple of weeks back it looked - to me anyway- we were the ones that came hungry to end the run of losses to them. If we have that mindset this week we are a chance.

Of course, our recent results might be a case of us limping to the bye after a really chaotic schedule that’s been compounded by a short pre season (two in a row), a cyclone, short breaks and some injuries. One last push this weekend before a physical reset should be the message, and I’m sure it will be.

 

[Son of Superboot]

Has anyone put any thought as the effect the umpires adjudication of the "not 15m" marks this year is having on our state of play?
Last year we were the kings of the short pass, and to quote Richo in the GF, the Lions never loose if they have 100+ marks.

Not saying its the cause of of our situation, but it must having an effect ?

 

[Sunny Land]

Love that he cakes himself out for Jackson not Jack.

And i think he is right. We are in a great position, we do have structure to sort out at either end now (joe and Jack) but our mid field is elite and our best game can still fall in place.

I'm waiting to see how we come back after the bye.

Our midfield are not elite right now.

 

[M Malice]

There’s a number of issues, none insurmountable, but some mental shifts need to occur.

The big one, and it’s happened against the Pies, Crows and Giants is that teams around us have really steeled themselves to knock us - the premiers - over. We’ve lacked that killer instinct that we had in our 01-04 teams, or that other dynasties like the Hawks, Cats and Tigers of more recent times. We let the foot off the throat when we are up, kick inaccurately and leave the door ajar. It’s happened even when we’ve won - I can only think of a handful of times where we have handed out a serious thumping.

When we smashed the Hawks a couple of weeks back it looked - to me anyway- we were the ones that came hungry to end the run of losses to them. If we have that mindset this week we are a chance.

Of course, our recent results might be a case of us limping to the bye after a really chaotic schedule that’s been compounded by a short pre season (two in a row), a cyclone, short breaks and some injuries. One last push this weekend before a physical reset should be the message, and I’m sure it will be.

I agree we were ruthless on many occasions but our side from that era still lost their share of games over the course of those seasons.

2001- Lost 5 H&A games.
2002- Lost 5 H&A games.
2003- Lost 7 H&A games and 1 final.
2004- Lost 6 H&A games and the GF.

I also had a look through the finals series of those years and gee we gave some teams a fearful thrashing in a few of those September games.

2001- Tigers 68 points.
2002- Crows 71 points, Port 56 points.
2003- Crows 42 points, Swans 44 points, Magpies 50 points.
2004- Saints 80 points.

 

[twhowler]

1- I also really like Bruce Reville, he has a great long kick and his disposal is usually high quality... however his endurance is not a strong point, I wouldn't be putting up against Smith/Holmes, he'd get run off his feet very quickly IMO. I think his best footy and improved endurance and would be a definite asset to our side. Needs a huge off season.

2- I think our top 2 chances are just about done already, the Pies and Cats have a relatively easy run home, I'll concede if we do happen to win on Friday night I'll probably have hope again of snagging a top 2 finish.

3- Can't see McLachlan or Reville coming in, both played a full game in the reserves yesterday and Fagan all but ruled out playing anyone backing up on a 5 day break.

1. Hmm probably a fair point re Bruce. Maybe he could play hff? Come up the ground and use his kicking to hit targets in the forward line.

2. yeah so do i, but this would be nail in the coffin stuff.

3. McLachlan is a forward pocket, don't reckon it is as much for them to back up? As long as no knocks?

 

[Tom14]

Has anyone put any thought as the effect the umpires adjudication of the "not 15m" marks this year is having on our state of play?
Last year we were the kings of the short pass, and to quote Richo in the GF, the Lions never loose if they have 100+ marks.

Not saying its the cause of of our situation, but it must having an effect ?

Yes - from round 1:

The ridiculous 15m kick interpretation might be putting us off a bit too. If the AFL wants to start being harsh on those fine, but the umpires are calling it inside defensive 50 far more than they are inside forward 50.

Reminds me a bit of that stupid pre-season where they trialled not paying a mark if you kick backwards. Idiot old codgers talking about needing to boot the ball forward ruining footy, actually depresses scoring by not allowing teams to change angles and switch to break up sophisticated, modern defensive zones.

This week's This Week in Football is a banger as per usual: https://thisweekinfootball.com/twif/week-9-2025/

Of most relevance to us is this piece on control vs chaos. I've reproduced the whole thing as I think it is critical to understand a few reasons why we haven't been quite as dynamic offensively:



View attachment 2308141







View attachment 2308145
Quick-release kicks are defined as kicks to and from an uncontested mark occurring in under 3 seconds.
Note: The available data is rounded to the nearest second and may lack precision depending on capture timing.



To add to the excellent analysis I'd also throw in the harsher interpretation of 15m as a reason why quick release kicks are down - there is more risk to a quick kick backwards inside D50.

 

[Tom14]

There’s a number of issues, none insurmountable, but some mental shifts need to occur.

The big one, and it’s happened against the Pies, Crows and Giants is that teams around us have really steeled themselves to knock us - the premiers - over. We’ve lacked that killer instinct that we had in our 01-04 teams, or that other dynasties like the Hawks, Cats and Tigers of more recent times. We let the foot off the throat when we are up, kick inaccurately and leave the door ajar. It’s happened even when we’ve won - I can only think of a handful of times where we have handed out a serious thumping.

When we smashed the Hawks a couple of weeks back it looked - to me anyway- we were the ones that came hungry to end the run of losses to them. If we have that mindset this week we are a chance.

Of course, our recent results might be a case of us limping to the bye after a really chaotic schedule that’s been compounded by a short pre season (two in a row), a cyclone, short breaks and some injuries. One last push this weekend before a physical reset should be the message, and I’m sure it will be.

This might be true but realistically I just think we aren't close to as good a team this year as we were last year.

I'm reminded of our 2022 season more and more - started out really really strong, had a couple of good away wins but fell away in the seoncd half of the season to finish 6th.

 

[Section 5]

I will put this here as it has a bit of traffic.

Members should have received a club email about getting free (GA) tickets for the Suns game.
If posters are like me and only travel to Carrara on a free ticket you maybe best getting in soon
Got my 2 so all sorted for Round 20

 

[twhowler]

I agree we were ruthless on many occasions but our side from that era still lost their share of games over the course of those seasons.

2001- Lost 5 H&A games.
2002- Lost 5 H&A games.
2003- Lost 7 H&A games and 1 final.
2004- Lost 6 H&A games and the GF.

I also had a look through the finals series of those years and gee we gave some teams a fearful thrashing in a few of those September games.

2001- Tigers 68 points.
2002- Crows 71 points, Port 56 points.
2003- Crows 42 points, Swans 44 points, Magpies 50 points.
2004- Saints 80 points.

I always think of 2002 as our most dominant season (despite the close gf).

Interesting to note we did have a patchy period of going 4-3 even in that season. But those losses were to (evenutal) third (away) fourth (away) and sixth (home - melbourne with Neitz going bananas). The patch we are in now we have gone 2-3-1 in. Including a draw to north and loss to the dees who seem almost certain to miss the 8.

So yeah i'd agree those sides were not the invincibles we think of

but we seem to be in considerably worse form this year to me

 

[Nunez]

If we are up against a 3 pronged KPF team, we are too short. Dizzy is a good option down back & puts his body in the line of fire every time but when up against taller opposition, they will use that as an advantage 100%.

Post-bye who'd you select? Would still go Dizzy over Joyce but would also like to get Doedee in when he is ready.

 

[KissKiss]

The Cats have 2 elite endurance ball runners on the wings in Bailey Smith and Max Holmes, we need to match that run, we need to have Jarrod Berry and Jaspa Fletcher as our 2 biggest minutes wingers, Levi will not be able to keep up with that run IMO.

Dempsey runs as hard as anyone in the comp as well on their wing. He gets from goal square to goa square almost better than anyone else at the moment. Definitely need to make sure our wingers are ready to run and run and run this week. Personally think Levi should have been rested 2-3 weeks ago and is well over due. We would be better off with Berry, Fletcher and Bailey leading the wings again.

 

[KissKiss]

That his attitude isn't right is your opinion. If his attitude isn't right like you say, then it's up to the coaching group to address it their way. Dropping him to the ressies is an option (& an easy one) but could be the wrong one depending on what is going on between his ears. In my opinion he's carrying an injury and that is whats having a negative effect on his game not attitude.
Charlie on the other hand has shown a distinct selfish & immature side of himself if things dont go his way. If anyone has an attitude problem it's him....once again just my opinion.

A few people have said that it might be an injury for Lohman but its affecting both his offensive and defensive game. We do struggle with maintaining the pressure in the forward line across a full season and it has such massive flow on effects for the whole ground. At the moment we have Charlie and Lohman starting the rot with not wanting to or not able to chase and pressure enough. There are others like Rayner that also tend to walk out of the forward line a little too much.

I think we are in need of the rest badly but also need a few players to ask them selves hard questions if they want it enough right now. Lohman through injury or other reasons should be asking if he is fit enough to be out there.

 

[Sunny Land]

Post-bye who'd you select? Would still go Dizzy over Joyce but would also like to get Doedee in when he is ready.

Dizzy is one of my favourite players. He over Joyce is a no brainer. Doedee is a different player and one who isnt a KPD. For me he replaces Wilmot. Wilmot's kicking skills need work where Doedee has good decision making and accurate by foot.