Coaching Staff Brendon Bolton - Senior Coach - Locked in until end of 2020 (23/5/18)

[TheHeatleyStand]

Caro can just keep ramping things up because she's not invested and it's her style
The club will have to continue to stay in the trenches

hard to believe players or officials from elsewhere will find this a rewarding destination by the time the season comes to an end

and then there's our boardroom with Kate
will she feel like she's going to be a circuit breaker for peace?
what's this mean for mlg?

i thought the whole thing was set up and SOS was always going to be finding it tough

not very smart by the club


pyrrhic victory

but let's see about long term fallout

 

[Doro]

Wrong !

Ooh nice rebuttal. The number one pick will be available to trade but will cost a kings ransom. Speaking about it being on the table is fine as they aren't at the club yet. Speaking about trading players is something to be more circumspect with.

 

[Gethelred]

If a person says no it’s not tradeable
Then stakes go higher
If you come out with oh everything is tradeable
Can you not see the difference
Business 101

This is very much a sticking point for you.

It's a different philosophy to yours. In your way, you lean back in your chair, arms crossed, and you bluntly tell them it's not for sale. If they want what you've got, they have to make an offer to get your attention, but you don't make that clear to them, you just steadfastly say that the person in question is not for sale. The question there becomes, what happens if they literally take you at your word, and leave to go pursue another option?

In SOS's way, he hasn't weakened his position any if at all, but he's open to the conversation of a trade. It means that, if approached, they can make him an offer or he can set his price.

Bear in mind the difference between a conventional marketplace and the tasks of list managers in the AFL. Who you * over this year, you may need to have a working relationship later on. You cannot burn a bridge, because you never know exactly when you need that person to use as leverage at some other point.

I can see the merit in your position, can you see what I'm getting at? There is never a single way to skin a mongoose.

 

[Doro]

If a person says no it’s not tradeable
Then stakes go higher
If you come out with oh everything is tradeable
Can you not see the difference
Business 101

Pick one gets spoken of in this way every year. Hasn't been traded since 2001.

 

[Ruckus]

If a person says no it’s not tradeable
Then stakes go higher
If you come out with oh everything is tradeable
Can you not see the difference
Business 101

If Silvagni had last night stated everything is for sale at X price, then you might have a point - all he's done in saying what he has, however, is keep all options on the table. It would be negligent to not be keeping an open mind at this point, so far out from trade period. Nothing he has said so far on this issue lessens our bargaining position, of reduces the value of any assets.

 

[Iamcarlton]

It was a predicted interview
He gave numbers
Completely missed the point of were we are lacking
Last year was a mirage
Back line is fine when you get players on field
As a supporter I would have like him to address our weeknesses and say yes we need more talent in the middle /wing / pressure small forwards
But no
Back to keeping blind faith

He'll address those issues at the only time he can at trade time and draft day .

 

[Aphrodite]

Any chance this thread can get back on topic - BRENDON BOLTON!


Discussion I have seen in here belongs:-

List Management:-
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2018-list-management-discussion-pt-2.1198027/page-76

Draft talk:-
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/carltons-2018-draft-thread.1187246/page-173#post-56831436

Pick Watch 2018:-
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/pick-watch-2018.1189238/page-28

Carlton In The Media:-
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...articles-podcasts-etc-part-2.1148214/page-329



*It's really pretty simple and makes it so much easier for all of us to follow the topic at hand and not have another thread derailed.

 

[mediumsizered]

What a silly comment.
They haven’t been building for 9 years
Just it didn’t turn out the way they wanted. Not all teams who build properly make a strong list.

So what have they been doing since their last finals appearance (this question can be applied to a number of AFL clubs)?

It shits me enough the way the media are ignoring the evidence before them as to what we started 3 years ago & SOS articulated it beautifully on Footy Classified last night (if you haven't watched it, make sure you do), but when our own supporters ignore it, while at the same time praising other clubs who have been building & rebuilding for a number of years (the Tigers first bottomed out in 2004 & then again in 2007), it is disingenuous.

 

[mediumsizered]

That is making no sense. So we had heaps of players under 21, I agree but then let’s get back to it,only 5 moths younger would mean that they still have players that are young too.
When all added up it was 5 months different.

11 players aged 21 or under compared to 4 players aged 21 or under. That is a fact. To strip it down a bit further, we had 12 players with less than 50 games experience, they had 6, yet the average games per player for the 2 teams was almost the same. The outliers in all of this are Simpson, Murphy, Thomas & Kreuzer who between them have played 950 of the 1819 games experience we had on the field on Friday night. The other 18 players accounted for 869 games, which equates to an average of 48 games per player. Break it down a little bit further & Ed, Jones, Mullett & Shaw accounted for a further 447 games between them, leaving a total of 422 games shared among 14 players at an average of 30 games each. This is a terrible imbalance & also a perfect example of why the average age & average games played is a very misleading way of comparing teams.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Top sides we play a different game. An in-close, tight, hard congested game, which seems to suit us. We have the ability playing that way to close down good sides. Even though we didn't win that often, although we did win a few in the first half of our reset and led 7 times in last qtrs and lost as well last year, we were a damn hard side to play against. Against s**t sides we try to play that zoning, offensive game that the players literally have no idea about and those sides cut through us like tissue paper.

We need to go back to the plan we do best, only difference being take the game on when we have the ball, get back hard to cover when we don't have it. Try to create something from our natural game plan and expand. We'd do that better than zoning. If we have to kick down the line try to get get players forward to create a situation where we outnumber the opposition rather than all sitting back. Be better than watching the chip, chip backwards all the time. There's a time to switch play, there's other times you have to set up down the line.

This is pretty accurate. The contested game is a game style that should not suit a side with as many young players as ours. That's why i believe that there is too much talent in this side for us to be as inept as we have been and there are certainly enough senior players out there to be competitive even without doc.

I think with a young team (not just in age but in games played together) with as many list changes as we've had, we need to keep it simple. Bolton is perhaps guilty of trying to implement a system to a team that isn't capable of doing it yet. But that is bad coaching!

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

So what have they been doing since their last finals appearance (this question can be applied to a number of AFL clubs)?

It shits me enough the way the media are ignoring the evidence before them as to what we started 3 years ago & SOS articulated it beautifully on Footy Classified last night (if you haven't watched it, make sure you do), but when our own supporters ignore it, while at the same time praising other clubs who have been building & rebuilding for a number of years (the Tigers first bottomed out in 2004 & then again in 2007), it is disingenuous.

Brisbane basically had to restart their rebuild after losing yeo, docherty, polec and longer. Losing them is essentially like us losing cripps and docherty before 2016 started.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

11 players aged 21 or under compared to 4 players aged 21 or under. That is a fact. To strip it down a bit further, we had 12 players with less than 50 games experience, they had 6, yet the average games per player for the 2 teams was almost the same. The outliers in all of this are Simpson, Murphy, Thomas & Kreuzer who between them have played 950 of the 1819 games experience we had on the field on Friday night. The other 18 players accounted for 869 games, which equates to an average of 48 games per player. Break it down a little bit further & Ed, Jones, Mullett & Shaw accounted for a further 447 games between them, leaving a total of 422 games shared among 14 players at an average of 30 games each. This is a terrible imbalance & also a perfect example of why the average age & average games played is a very misleading way of comparing teams.

St Kilda has the list profile of a much stronger side than they are (if you subscribe to the age=good theory).

Syndey had 10 players under 50 games on the weekend that won away to north melbourne with josh kennedy missing most of the game. That doesn't include isaac heeney who's 22 and played 73 games or tom papely who's 22 and played 53 games.

Having lots of inexperienced players running around is not an excuse to become a glorified set of training cones.

 

[mediumsizered]

St Kilda has the list profile of a much stronger side than they are (if you subscribe to the age=good theory).

Syndey had 10 players under 50 games on the weekend that won away to north melbourne with josh kennedy missing most of the game. That doesn't include isaac heeney who's 22 and played 73 games or tom papely who's 22 and played 53 games.

Having lots of inexperienced players running around is not an excuse to become a glorified set of training cones.

Sydney's side also included Franklin, Parker, Lloyd, Rampe, Smith, & they didn't lose their #1 ruckman in the early stages of the 1st quarter, resulting in 2 young forwards & 2 KPD having to rotate through ruck contests. More importantly though, how do you think our younger players would fare if they were playing alongside these players instead of Jones, Rowe, Mullett, Lamb, Thomas, Shaw (from Friday night's game), most of whom have been the mainstay of our team for most of the season together with O'Shea, Casboult, Graham, Kerridge & Wright?.

When young players walk in the door at the Swans, they are greeted by the above-named Swans players along with Grundy, Hannebery, Jack, Kennedy, McVeigh, Rohan. These players set the standard for the younger players. Bolts would love to have these players on our list to guide the plethora of younger players we have on our list, but he doesn't, instead he has the abovenamed Carlton players. Murphy, Kreuzer & Docherty are our equivalent of the Swans' core group of experienced players.

When we introduced a stack of younger players to the club back in the late '70s, e.g. Buckley, Sheldon, Harmes, Marcou, McConville, Johnston, Brown, Young, Francis, they walked into a club with players of the calibre of Jesaulenko, Doull, Southby, McKay, Austin, Keogh, Armstrong, Ashman. How do you think our current young players would go training & playing alongside this group instead of our current group of mature aged players?

We won't see enough significant growth among our younger players until many of them become the teachers instead of the pupils. This is what Bolts is referring to when he states the upside of our current plight is that our younger players are getting more games under their belt than what they would have if our club had a better balanced list.

 

[Soapy V]

Phillips has certainly been better this year when he has got his chance but that won't help given you can only play one ruck these day. Credit where it is due though McKay's averaging 2 goals a game before Friday, where interestingly he may have played his best game for us. Not huge improvements yet but on the way up.

My concern is those talented youngsters that have gone backwards. Weitering, SPS and SOJ.

Please refer to SOS interview on FC.


“Development is never linear”

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Please refer to SOS interview on FC.


“Development is never linear”

there's no guarantees that it's linear, not linear or never going to happen!
lol

you can't just quote that and leave it at that

everybody needs to admit we don't know!

SOS wasn't great as picking for gws.. so many misses

did it with a huge amount of pics

our development program is hardly a proven program

 

[Soapy V]

there's no guarantees that it's linear, not linear or never going to happen!
lol

you can't just quote that and leave it at that

..........but I did

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

..........but I did

not being objective is hardly anything to boast aboutt

 

[Soapy V]

there's no guarantees that it's linear, not linear or never going to happen!
lol

you can't just quote that and leave it at that

everybody needs to admit we don't know!

SOS wasn't great as picking for gws.. so many misses

did it with a huge amount of pics

our development program is hardly a proven program

No one knows for absolutely sure that any of our young players will be any good or not.

So why are people complaining or worrying about something that hasn’t happened yet?

Same as saying Bolton isn’t a good coach. How do we really know? He needs to be able to develop and build this list and it takes time. I don’t get how people can say he’s no good

 

[Soapy V]

not being objective is hardly anything to boast aboutt

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

a good coach has a great club that provides great infrastructure!
we don't have that

no money
no initiatives and innovations
unless you want to share those with us it's hard to be too glass half full

 

[Arr0w]

No one knows for absolutely sure that any of our young players will be any good or not.

So why are people complaining or worrying about something that hasn’t happened yet?

Same as saying Bolton isn’t a good coach. How do we really know? He needs to be able to develop and build this list and it takes time. I don’t get how people can say he’s no good

Because so many people live in the past.

They must have a huge rear vision mirror

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

nobody lives in the past because we all live in the present
but the past provides context

 

[Arr0w]

But........ right on cue

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

yeah

it's important to keep things in context

 

[Soapy V]

nobody lives in the past because we all live in the present
but the past provides context

Yet so many are so negative about the future