Coaching Staff Brendon Bolton - Senior Coach - Locked in until end of 2020 (23/5/18)

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i understand what you are saying. But the AFl is much more "holistic"now than before . The emphasis on relationships, the club as family approach is being embraced more and more. I see the head coach as the person who is responsible for that holistic culture. he appoints the assistant coaches which have the required experience and skills, so it is not going to be a case of ignore my line coach eg a Voss/Hird/ Judd because I dont think the head coach has played to my level and therefore "wouldnt know" Look at Wayne Brittain who only played in the QAFA for the Zillmere eagles . He generated a lot of respect amongst our players at the time. His lack of success was due to an ageing list and atrocious drafting. And he was our head coach back in the days before line coaches
the difference with britts is that he played football at a senior level and gained the respect of the senior players before being appointed.

by the way i dont have an issue with someone like britts who has played the game at a senior level being appointed coach. my argument is about appointing someone like ang postecocglou who has ever played the game at a senior level.

It doesn't matter how advanced the culture is, footballers are footballers and if they can have clubs sack people like neeld and watters who were inexperienced senior coaches then what hope does some like ANG Postecoglou have - none in my opinion.

The issue of all line coaches knowing more about the game than the senior coach has real issues and and for me does not inspire any confidence in the direction or development of our game plans.
 

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Arr0w

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Happy to be corrected, but I can not recall a senior coach, who has never played VFL/AFL having sustained success at AFL level. Neil Craig had limited success in his first couple of years, but the Crows did fall away on 2010 & 2011. If the likes of a Bolton, have sustained success or win the holy grail, it will open up a path to the "leaders of men" such as a Postecoglou
 
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Happy to be corrected, but I can not recall a senior coach, who has never played VFL/AFL having sustained success at AFL level. Neil Craig had limited success in his first couple of years, but the Crows did fall away on 2010 & 2011. If the likes of a Bolton, have sustained success or win the holy grail, it will open up a path to the "leaders of men" such as a Postecoglou
i think if/when BB has sustained success it will show that you don't have to play senior AFL yes but you need to have played aussie rules at a senior level.

Angelo Postecoglou might only have played football upto junior level, if at all, and never as a senior in any competition. This is my main point about Angie P and others like him - you must have played our great indigenous game at a senior level in order to become an effective AFL senior coach.
 

Arr0w

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i think if/when BB has sustained success it will show that you don't have to play senior AFL yes but you need to have played aussie rules at a senior level.

Angelo Postecoglou might only have played football upto junior level, if at all, and never as a senior in any competition. This is my main point about Angie P and others like him - you must have played our great indigenous game at a senior level in order to become an effective AFL senior coach.
I agree, the odds are stacked against anyone that hasn't played the game at a high level
 

JustaBattler

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The stats say that there isn't enough of a population or sample space to declare either way.
However ( interesting for me anyway) the stats do speak loudly AGAINST coaches who have played at the highest levels - witnessed by teh fact that sop few have won a flag since the game began.
 

Lace_Out

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i think if/when BB has sustained success it will show that you don't have to play senior AFL yes but you need to have played aussie rules at a senior level.

Angelo Postecoglou might only have played football upto junior level, if at all, and never as a senior in any competition. This is my main point about Angie P and others like him - you must have played our great indigenous game at a senior level in order to become an effective AFL senior coach.
Ange played nearly 200 games in the NSL, the highest standard of football back then and probably better than most teams now. He also represented Australia 4 times.

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Happy to be corrected, but I can not recall a senior coach, who has never played VFL/AFL having sustained success at AFL level. Neil Craig had limited success in his first couple of years, but the Crows did fall away on 2010 & 2011. If the likes of a Bolton, have sustained success or win the holy grail, it will open up a path to the "leaders of men" such as a Postecoglou
Wayne Brittain took us to 6th in 2001 - never played VFL/AFL - did play for Zillmere in the QAFL. didnt do much after that though
 

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mediumsizered

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i'm not so sure that would have been the case. Im not suggesting we would have won a premiership however it would have shown a different pattern of thinking and we may have progressed quicker.
Given Brittain coached us to our first wooden spoon & we then got whacked with draft penalties & were financially up the creek, I doubt very much that he could have done any better than what he did.

Brittain only ever got the senior coaching position at Carlton because he was anointed by Parkin. If a proper recruitment process had taken place (highly unlikely for our club at the time), he wouldn't have made the short list.
 

passmark

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And yet Parkin and the club were lauded at how he went about the transitional handover to Brits.
Yes, remember it well.

It was seen as the first of its kind, a footballing legend handling over the reigns to a young professional new coach.

We should have known Jack would not have let it have time to work.
 
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Ange played nearly 200 games in the NSL, the highest standard of football back then and probably better than most teams now. He also represented Australia 4 times.

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Angelo played soccer and never played our indigenous game called football.

He was a good local soccer player who whilst never reaching great heights as a player had the right credential to then become a senior club manager. He does not have the credentials to become a senior AFL coach.
 

Lace_Out

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I never said he had the credentials to coach at AFL. I thought originally the comment was about world football and not our game so my bad.


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Last night I heard Brett Lee being interviews about the upcoming test squad. The topic turned to Pat Cummins and his injuries/workload.

Brett was asked about Pat Howard, who is the Australian cricket team's High Performance Manager (managing training/workloads/sports science).

Brett Lee said someone with a Rugby background had no business telling a fast bowler how many balls he should be bowling.

Shane Warne and Shane Watson (both Prima Donnas, admittedly) have been scathing about Howard in the past too.

I have no problem bringing in someone from another sport. In fact I think it can offer huge benefits. BUT it seems the players do/would have a problem.

So, someone like Ange (as an example) may be the best tactician available (even for Aussie Rules), but he may struggle to garner full respect from the playing list.
 

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Last night I heard Brett Lee being interviews about the upcoming test squad. The topic turned to Pat Cummins and his injuries/workload.

Brett was asked about Pat Howard, who is the Australian cricket team's High Performance Manager (managing training/workloads/sports science).

Brett Lee said someone with a Rugby background had no business telling a fast bowler how many balls he should be bowling.

Shane Warne and Shane Watson (both Prima Donnas, admittedly) have been scathing about Howard in the past too.

I have no problem bringing in someone from another sport. In fact I think it can offer huge benefits. BUT it seems the players do/would have a problem.

So, someone like Ange (as an example) may be the best tactician available (even for Aussie Rules), but he may struggle to garner full respect from the playing list.
I honestly think most of that could be solved with an introductory seminar entitled: 'How I can use my brain to identify trends and learn new concepts, instead of folding my arms and acting like a dickhead'
 
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Given Brittain coached us to our first wooden spoon & we then got whacked with draft penalties & were financially up the creek, I doubt very much that he could have done any better than what he did.

Brittain only ever got the senior coaching position at Carlton because he was anointed by Parkin. If a proper recruitment process had taken place (highly unlikely for our club at the time), he wouldn't have made the short list.
Brittain, similar to Ratten, was massacred with injuries the year he lost his job. Was an unfortunate victim of circumstance. But equally agree he would unlikely to have been able to do much more than Pagan the draft penalties. But then again, you wouldnt have lost players like Manton, Hickmott, Murphy, Beaumont, Camporeale, Ratten and even Bradley (who was still playing good football prior to his retirement) who all arguably left a few years before their time due to less than harmonious relationships with Pagan
 

therubbernub

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Last night I heard Brett Lee being interviews about the upcoming test squad. The topic turned to Pat Cummins and his injuries/workload.

Brett was asked about Pat Howard, who is the Australian cricket team's High Performance Manager (managing training/workloads/sports science).

Brett Lee said someone with a Rugby background had no business telling a fast bowler how many balls he should be bowling.

Shane Warne and Shane Watson (both Prima Donnas, admittedly) have been scathing about Howard in the past too.

I have no problem bringing in someone from another sport. In fact I think it can offer huge benefits. BUT it seems the players do/would have a problem.

So, someone like Ange (as an example) may be the best tactician available (even for Aussie Rules), but he may struggle to garner full respect from the playing list.
Brett Lee is effectively saying that he doesn't believe in sports science. It doesn't really matter what the experience is of the messenger if the science behind what he says is solid and up to date.
 

ferrisb

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Brett Lee is effectively saying that he doesn't believe in sports science. It doesn't really matter what the experience is of the messenger if the science behind what he says is solid and up to date.
Don't entirely agree.

If Dennis Lillee had said this is how much a young fast bowler should bowl, Brett Lee might listen.

It's not sport science he is questioning, it's the authority of the person delivering the message.

I think the sporting pedigree matters; not because it makes the message any better but because the message will be received differently.
 

therubbernub

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Don't entirely agree.

If Dennis Lillee had said this is how much a young fast bowler should bowl, Brett Lee might listen.

It's not sport science he is questioning, it's the authority of the person delivering the message.

I think the sporting pedigree matters; not because it makes the message any better but because the message will be received differently.
All learning is the same is it not? We go to school/univ accepting that the people we listen to know the correct facts. I think the key is how the information is delivered. If the person is delivering the information in an intelligent way that the individual player can relate to then respect will just come. If it isnt packaged correctly then it doesnt matter who delivers the information- it wont be accepted. BB seems pretty adept at delivering his message to not just players but all ancillary staff as well
 

ferrisb

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Pfffft. I didn't listen to anyone at school/uni.... ;)

I agree with you that the delivery of the message is the important thing. In almost any scenario, your presentation needs to be relevant and relatable. Otherwise the audience switches off.

But we are getting way off topic.

Seriously though, how good is BB? :thumbsu::p
 

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Brittain, similar to Ratten, was massacred with injuries the year he lost his job. Was an unfortunate victim of circumstance. But equally agree he would unlikely to have been able to do much more than Pagan the draft penalties. But then again, you wouldnt have lost players like Manton, Hickmott, Murphy, Beaumont, Camporeale, Ratten and even Bradley (who was still playing good football prior to his retirement) who all arguably left a few years before their time due to less than harmonious relationships with Pagan
After winning a wooden spoon, there was no point Bradley playing on with a major rebuild being required (but unfortunately being prevented by a lack of decent draft picks).

When Ratten retired in 2003, his body was done. In fact I would go as far as saying he never fully recovered from the dislocated elbow suffered in Round 22, 2001. Hickmott's body had also let him down, no doubt contributed to by the way he played the game.

Manton was done & dusted after 2002 when he was no longer a regular in the seniors & was probably allowed to play on in 2003 because of our lack of draft picks.

Murphy was no loss at all & Campo became a liability when he stopped doing the hard yards. He got offered a 1 year contract by the club, but jumped at the 2 years offered by the Dopers however he didn't exactly play inspiring football during those 2 years.

Beaumont played one full season with the Hawks & then only 6 games the following season. His body ended up letting him down.

The sad reality is that Parkin left our list in a terrible state, but unfortunately the Carlton faithful believed much of the spin coming out of the club at the time & therefore did not foresee the big crash which we experienced.
 
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