Brent Harvey - Let's get serious

[Masqualero]

I think most people rate him as a gun HFF/Mid who played to a great level for many years without establishing himself as the best or one of for a whole year.

He doesn't get brought up because his flag was early in his career and he wasn't a gun yet. He also played for North which unfortunately for them doesn't get too much media attention.

Absolute gun though.

 

[demondavey]

Because he was the worst 400 game player that played AFL games in 2016 OF ALL TIME.

Sorry, you're not making sense....

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Well that's debatable isn't it?

No it's not.

 

[demondavey]

No it's not.

Well according to some people it would be, just like not all opinions are universally shared. It's called democracy.

 

[Farm Boy]

Get the chip off your shoulder and quit trying to patronise me to make yourself feel intelligent. It isn't working.

The way it works is that the umpires vote on the award, so regardless whether you feel someone else is better is really irrelevant. At that particular point in time, votes were given a certain way. Since 2000 I'd be pretty happy with the winners and I'd say they got them right. Woewodin and Cooney haven't had great careers but hey, they obviously had great seasons.

Don't bother responding if you're going to come back with a sarcastic or patronising retort to inflate your own self opinion at the expense of what I have explained simply enough for you.

Ok, so Joe Blo could have a terrible year and be deserving. Pretty stupid logic but whatever. I am not going to derail a Harvey thread arguing with you.

 

[Richo83]

If you think Harvey was left to run tag-free the closer he got to goal you are kidding yourself. As the CD graphic shows, he was the most damaging player in the AFL by a number of deviations for a 5 year period between 2010 - 2014, which makes him far more damaging than the players you mention above during that period.....note where Dangerfield sits.

I remember Harvey's career, I also remember teams not tagging him and sticking a wingman/half back flank on him. It's difficult for teams to sit a tagger on a forward flanker as it unbalances your side, the tagger is supposed to help out in the midfield, not double team a player who's likely to burn them both anyway.

You will have to compare Martin to Harvey in selective single seasons because the reality is Martin has only performed at Harvey's level for an entire season once or twice at 27 years of age. When Martin produces his eighth season of 30+ goals let me know.

Martin finished third in the brownlow vote last year and has been playing at an elite level for three years now. I also don't understand why quantity beats quality.

But fine, I'd take Ablett, Judd, Cousins, Buckley, Black, Mitchell, Voss, Bartel (mr versatility, stepped up in key moments), Swan (gun finals performer) over him. Possibly some more but that list would cause too much angst.

That Harvey is easier to tag might come with the fact his true height is 167cm and Martin's is 187cm so obviously it was going to be harder for him to cope with gorillas like Ling, Picken, Jones and Crowley hanging off him......BUT he beat the tag more often than not.

But that's what makes players like Dangerfield and Martin special, their ability to play forward with their combination of speed, agility, height and strength. I get that it's not Harvey's fault that he was short, but it does factor into his versatility.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

If you think Harvey was left to run tag-free the closer he got to goal you are kidding yourself. As the CD graphic shows, he was the most damaging player in the AFL by a number of deviations for a 5 year period between 2010 - 2014, which makes him far more damaging than the players you mention above during that period.....note where Dangerfield sits.

You will have to compare Martin to Harvey in selective single seasons because the reality is Martin has only performed at Harvey's level for an entire season once or twice at 27 years of age. When Martin produces his eighth season of 30+ goals let me know.

That Harvey is easier to tag might come with the fact his true height is 167cm and Martin's is 187cm so obviously it was going to be harder for him to cope with gorillas like Ling, Picken, Jones and Crowley hanging off him......BUT he beat the tag more often than not.

Your graph only shows kicks inside 50? We all know Boomer loved to call for the ball and kick the s**t out of it. Can you bring up the graphs with score assists and retention of kicks please? As reading that graph the only thing you can tell is that Boomer played forward of center and kicked the ball a lot.

 

[demondavey]

Ok, so Joe Blo could have a terrible year and be deserving. Pretty stupid logic but whatever. I am not going to derail a Harvey thread arguing with you.

Suits me.

 

[Keith Ape]

This is a great thread to weed out the posters who know nothing about footy and blatant trolls.

It's fine to not rate him as high as Voss/Buckley and others, but I'm sure during his prime (which lasted around 15 years) the majority wished they had him or someone similar in their team.

 

[Xhoquelin]

He’s the AFL games record holder. No matter how much people want to undersell his contribution to the game he will have that distinction for a good while.

I don’t think he was ever really the best player in the game but he would have been in the top 50 for about 15 years and came close in 2007 to the Brownlow. Longevity matters and he could’ve played 500.

 

[ezard15]

Most valuable player to his club ever.

Greatest effort at overcoming the disadvantages of being a midget

 

[Feerits Elf]

One of the reasons I can only put this down to is that he doesn't get the recognition because he never won a Brownlow, yet Cooney & Woewodin won one. Go figure. There's no denying he absolutely trumped those two. He was actually better than so many 'champions' we have apparently given that title.

Yep, same reason Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey and Gary Ablett Sr never get any plaudits

 

[Feerits Elf]

Most valuable player to his club ever.

Greatest effort at overcoming the disadvantages of being a midget

Tony Liberatore doesn't like this

 

[calyam]

He had a great career and was a truly excellent player. ChampionData, via their Player Ratings, ranked him as one of the most damaging players in the competition (and that recorded just his last five seasons). I think he is definitely underrated on this board. Nevertheless, there were clearly midfielders that peaked higher and even if you factor in longevity I think it would be a reach to mention his name as a top 5 midfielder of his generation.

 

[perplexed]

Your graph only shows kicks inside 50? We all know Boomer loved to call for the ball and kick the s**t out of it. Can you bring up the graphs with score assists and retention of kicks please? As reading that graph the only thing you can tell is that Boomer played forward of center and kicked the ball a lot.

Please refer to the y-axis.

 

[kangaspurs]

I have him below the level of those you have in your OP (Hird, Buckley, Voss, Roo, Cousins, Crawford, Harvey, Black, etc) because each of these players was, for a reasonable period of time, the best player in the game, or in the best 2-3 players going around.

Harvey I have in the same category as someone like Brad Johnson - out and out club champion, outstanding CV ... but not in the top handful of players at any given time.

That is demonstrably false.

In 2007 he finished equal 2nd in the Brownlow and followed it up with an equal 6th the year after. Across those two years he was awarded 3 media Player of the Year Awards and was All-Australian and BnF winner in both, 2007 in a top 4 team and 2008 in a top 8 team.

In a strange way, Boomer actually gets underrated because of his longevity. People marvel at the amount of years and games he played while forgetting just how good he was. No one in the game was a better kick inside 50 throughout his career and I think he's right up there, if not top, for goal assists since Champion Data has counted the metric to go along with his 500+ goals. Not to mention that 500-odd goals is, frankly, a ridiculous amount for a 172cm half forward/midfielder, no matter how many games he played.

The 'couldnt handle a tag' thing is a misconception as well, mainly brought about because of a few high profile times where he was comfortably beaten and reacted poorly. People are happy to remember them while not considering all the times he was tagged as 'North's only good player' and still tore the opposition to shreds, even into his mid-late 30's.

He also should have been a 5 time AA. He was categorically robbed in 2014.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Great player, sure. But longevity does not always equal automatic champion/legend status

#makeyourgamescountdontcountyourgames

 

[demondavey]

Great player, sure. But longevity does not always equal automatic champion/legend status

#makeyourgamescountdontcountyourgames

His statistics do though. His longevity means he outlasted everyone. That needs to count. He was better at being out there and staying fit & strong.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

His statistics do though. His longevity means he outlasted everyone. That needs to count. He was better at being out there and staying fit & strong.

Absolutely. I respect his professionalism to the game - just not so much how he played at times. He had to do something right to last that long at the top while not being as physically gifted as many of his colleagues.

I wouldn't have him in the top 5 mids over the past 20 years though - he would be top 50 for me over 20 years for me. Great player, but I feel the greatness of his career is slightly inflated because of the length (just as some players have their careers judged poorly because they played fewer games than others)

Just my opinion, however

 

[thetank]

Gun player, severely underrated. Cutting edge half forward, never lost speed, agility or skills.

 

[DashinD]

Consistently very good. However his only standout attributes were consistency and longevity. Didn't have the brilliant gamebreaking streak or the 'I'm going to pull my team over the line' that the elite tier have.

 

[tazaa]

I dont get some of the opinions on here.
He only ran one way? Because he was the best kick of the footy in the team which any coach would want forward of centre.
If he didnt get back it was most likely to keep the tagger out of the play.
And if he got tagged weekly it only justifies how good and dangerous he was.

To kick over 500 goals as a 172cm footballer is a great achievement. To be elite for most of his 19 year career is also a highlight.
And as Champion Data states, leads the league for assists and is the most damaging kick amongst his peers and opposition.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Definitely underrated.

Great player... super, super damaging.

 

[Engimal v3]

I try not to do the whole "everyone hates my club" thing that people tend to do on BigFooty, but I genuinely do think that Boomer is vastly underrated because of the team he played for. I think if he played in a Collingwood or a Richmond sort of side, he'd be regarded much higher.

Regardless, his record speaks for itself. For around 14 years, he would have been the undoubtedly #1 fear of coaches playing North, and North had their fair share of time around the top end of the ladder. That is absolutely insane.

Couple that in with the fact that he's 'officially' 172cm tall (anyone who's seen his height by year knows that's debatable and possibly a bit shorter), and it's remarkable that he played as well as he did.

Just an absolutely gun, an AFL champion and you'd be a fool to say otherwise. Would have to have won as many games off of his own boot as anyone that I've ever seen.

 

[bradrowe#32]

Always worried about him, especially with his goal-kicking ability.