Re: Respect for brett ratten
It's not his fault he needs more time.... He needs an extension of 15 years
It's not his fault he needs more time.... He needs an extension of 15 years
-
Mobile App Discontinued
Due to a number of factors, support for the current BigFooty mobile app has been discontinued. Your BigFooty login will no longer work on the Tapatalk or the BigFooty App - which is based on Tapatalk.
Apologies for any inconvenience. We will try to find a replacement.
Mega Thread Brett Ratten
- Thread starter BLUEALLTHRU
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Status
Re: Respect for brett ratten
Jesus Maria, the only plan is success, wake up and have a real hard look at this team and club, its all talk, pick after pick after pick.
CJ, Warnock, Mclean, start holding people accountable, clean out, clean up and get serious.
CJ, Warnock, Mclean = millions, for what? Is this part of a grand master plan, or are we being led by the clueless?
Open your god damn eyes.
Jesus Maria, the only plan is success, wake up and have a real hard look at this team and club, its all talk, pick after pick after pick.
CJ, Warnock, Mclean, start holding people accountable, clean out, clean up and get serious.
CJ, Warnock, Mclean = millions, for what? Is this part of a grand master plan, or are we being led by the clueless?
Open your god damn eyes.
CarltonKid07
All Australian
Re: Time to go Ratts
I like Ratten, but I cant see us going further with him. Much rather a coach like Malthouse, who has a Plan B, Plan A even,
.
I like Ratten, but I cant see us going further with him. Much rather a coach like Malthouse, who has a Plan B, Plan A even,
.
Re: Respect for brett ratten
So Ratts has been coaching us since 2006, has he? So what was Denis Pagan doing during the 2006 & most of the 2007 season?
If only Geelong had sacked Thompson after 5 years (that is almost how long Ratts has been coaching us) with a coaching record of 7th, 12th, 9th, 12th, 4th, Geelong supporters wouldn't have it over the rest of the competition. Or perhaps sacked him after 7 years (5th & 10th). In fact Ratten's coaching record stacks up pretty well in comparison (11th, 7th, 8th, 5th).
Personally I think we need to take advantage of this year's supposed strong draft & recruit totally for need, perhaps trading players to get a couple of extra picks. It has become very clear that we are still short on depth, particularly beyond the 25/26th best players on our list. As has been stated by a number of coaches in recent times, you need to have a core list of 30 players who are competitive at AFL level. We are not there yet, as has been demonstrated with our unfortunate injury run.
So Ratts has been coaching us since 2006, has he? So what was Denis Pagan doing during the 2006 & most of the 2007 season?
If only Geelong had sacked Thompson after 5 years (that is almost how long Ratts has been coaching us) with a coaching record of 7th, 12th, 9th, 12th, 4th, Geelong supporters wouldn't have it over the rest of the competition. Or perhaps sacked him after 7 years (5th & 10th). In fact Ratten's coaching record stacks up pretty well in comparison (11th, 7th, 8th, 5th).
Personally I think we need to take advantage of this year's supposed strong draft & recruit totally for need, perhaps trading players to get a couple of extra picks. It has become very clear that we are still short on depth, particularly beyond the 25/26th best players on our list. As has been stated by a number of coaches in recent times, you need to have a core list of 30 players who are competitive at AFL level. We are not there yet, as has been demonstrated with our unfortunate injury run.
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
Re: Respect for brett ratten
Let's make more excuses for him. Every season we have under achieved.
One finals win vs a team who finished 8th what a record.
Just in case you didn't realize
3 sides who didn't make the 8 last year have thrashed us in the last month.
Even when we are winning the majority of people realize he can't coach, our wins are amazing given how bad he is.
Would another club hire him as senior coach? If not why not?
Let's make more excuses for him. Every season we have under achieved.
One finals win vs a team who finished 8th what a record.
Just in case you didn't realize
3 sides who didn't make the 8 last year have thrashed us in the last month.
Even when we are winning the majority of people realize he can't coach, our wins are amazing given how bad he is.
Would another club hire him as senior coach? If not why not?
Re: Respect for brett ratten
We have had years to do this, you want to revisit what should have been done?
Warnock, Mclean, CJ is millions thrown away, that was our recruiting.
No accountability that is the problem, and it reeks from the top down.
Yer and we dumped Pagan, and look at the garbage that poor bastard had to work with.
A plethora of half back flankers, mids and no talls, consider this, Henderson obtained by default. Waites age and injury history, fgor christ sake planning for this should have been happening years ago.
Wake the fk up and open your eyes.
Its not just Ratts, its the entire club! No one is accountable for anything, even the god damn players.
You keep looking for bandaids, WHERE IS THE GOD DAMN PLAN, IS THERE ONE?
We have had years to do this, you want to revisit what should have been done?
Warnock, Mclean, CJ is millions thrown away, that was our recruiting.
No accountability that is the problem, and it reeks from the top down.
Yer and we dumped Pagan, and look at the garbage that poor bastard had to work with.
A plethora of half back flankers, mids and no talls, consider this, Henderson obtained by default. Waites age and injury history, fgor christ sake planning for this should have been happening years ago.
Wake the fk up and open your eyes.
Its not just Ratts, its the entire club! No one is accountable for anything, even the god damn players.
You keep looking for bandaids, WHERE IS THE GOD DAMN PLAN, IS THERE ONE?
Can we organise a swap ?
Ratten to Brisbane
Voss to Carlton
Just like we did in 1985 when Walls went to Carlton & Parkin went to Fitzroy.
Ratten to Brisbane
Voss to Carlton
Just like we did in 1985 when Walls went to Carlton & Parkin went to Fitzroy.
The swap is Gibbs, for a quality tall, Gibbs is not NECCESARY for our structure, he is cream, another quality tall is NECESSARY for our structure, they are essential.
I am not necessarily saying sack Ratten, but it's pretty clear he has not got anywhere near the best out of this playing group. 1 finals win in the five years he has been at the helm, when we have made the finals 3 of the years. And we have gone backwards this year and are prob a good chance of missing the 8. Adding to that there are still too many bad habits in this playing group.
Considering the talent of the playing group I think it's fair to say he hasn't got anywhere near enough out them over his time.
Considering the talent of the playing group I think it's fair to say he hasn't got anywhere near enough out them over his time.
basil00
All Australian
- Apr 1, 2010
- 786
- 404
- AFL Club
- Carlton
That might work. One of things i hear said of Ratts, is that he is too close to his player. However, i don't know if that is the same with Voss?
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
- Moderator
- #288
Re: Respect for brett ratten
I see the argument that nobody would hire Ratten if he wasn't at Carlton. This is a pretty accurate statement, I admit. However it is lacking in perspective.
Let's look at the coaches.
Buckley - would any other club go after him right now if he wasn't at the Pies? Doubtful as the jury is still out over whether he is improving or diminishing what Mick built.
B Scott - wouldn't get a job anywhere else once North boots him.
Hird - maybe, has good assistants around him right now though.
C Scott - yes.
Clarkson - doubtful.
Hardwick - a few weeks ago ... no, now maybe he has shown he is building something. Early days.
McCartney - still unproven, doubt he would be snapped up if he leaves the Dogs.
Longmire - probably yes.
Neeld - no.
Watters - not sure, unproven.
Sanderson - yes.
Primus - no.
Worsfold - has been to the top to the bottom and heading up again. Unsure if he would be snapped up by another club if he found himself out of a job. Things change quickly.
Lyon - last year, in demand. This year, he's at his last club.
McKenna - no.
Sheedy - no.
Voss - no.
Most coaches wouldn't be snapped up if they were out of a job. Very few coaches who don't win premierships do get snapped up for another shot at it. Some like Eade or Wallace get a longer amount of time because they take charge of sides not rated and they achieve some decent finishing places but they are an exception to the rule.
I see the argument that nobody would hire Ratten if he wasn't at Carlton. This is a pretty accurate statement, I admit. However it is lacking in perspective.
Let's look at the coaches.
Buckley - would any other club go after him right now if he wasn't at the Pies? Doubtful as the jury is still out over whether he is improving or diminishing what Mick built.
B Scott - wouldn't get a job anywhere else once North boots him.
Hird - maybe, has good assistants around him right now though.
C Scott - yes.
Clarkson - doubtful.
Hardwick - a few weeks ago ... no, now maybe he has shown he is building something. Early days.
McCartney - still unproven, doubt he would be snapped up if he leaves the Dogs.
Longmire - probably yes.
Neeld - no.
Watters - not sure, unproven.
Sanderson - yes.
Primus - no.
Worsfold - has been to the top to the bottom and heading up again. Unsure if he would be snapped up by another club if he found himself out of a job. Things change quickly.
Lyon - last year, in demand. This year, he's at his last club.
McKenna - no.
Sheedy - no.
Voss - no.
Most coaches wouldn't be snapped up if they were out of a job. Very few coaches who don't win premierships do get snapped up for another shot at it. Some like Eade or Wallace get a longer amount of time because they take charge of sides not rated and they achieve some decent finishing places but they are an exception to the rule.
Re: Respect for brett ratten
Ratts does not have the sort of cattle that Thompson had. Ratts needs to teach which is hard to do when he is still trying to learn the caper himself. We need to do something before Judd starts to decline because without we will not be winning a flag.
Unfortunately with these types of drafts every club will improve 5% so we need to improve internally along with bringing in newbies.
Ratts does not have the sort of cattle that Thompson had. Ratts needs to teach which is hard to do when he is still trying to learn the caper himself. We need to do something before Judd starts to decline because without we will not be winning a flag.
Unfortunately with these types of drafts every club will improve 5% so we need to improve internally along with bringing in newbies.
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
Re: Respect for brett ratten
It's funny you should mention dumping Pagan considering the garbage he had to work with. I made exactly the same point when Carlton supporters on BF were pushing for Pagan to be sacked & Ratts given the job. I was not convinced Ratts was the answer at the time, but once the decision was made I was more than happy to give Ratts my support & the reality is he has been achieving improvement, either in competitiveness or actual ladder position since his appointment. This season has not gone as planned, but I'm yet to be convinced that sacking the coach & the subsequent settling in time for a new coach, is the answer. We won't see instant success with a Malthouse, Roos, whoever. It doesn't work that way.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't have recruited Judd? If so, you are arguing for continued mediocrity, not just on the field but also off the field. Judd not only brought professionalism to the playing group, but also brought back some corporate credibility to the club. No-one wanted to be associated with our club before Judd arrived. Our levels of sponsorship were lower than even the permanently tragic North Melbourne. If you think we have wasted millions on Judd, then it is painfully obvious that you are just attempting to white-ant our club, perhaps wanting to return to the pre-Pratt era, where certain influential Carlton people were deliberately destabilising our club. I fear some of those people are active again & the likes of Caroline Wilson & Craig Hutchinson are rubbing their hands with anticipation of the 'exclusive' stories they can break about infighting at Carlton.
It's funny you should mention dumping Pagan considering the garbage he had to work with. I made exactly the same point when Carlton supporters on BF were pushing for Pagan to be sacked & Ratts given the job. I was not convinced Ratts was the answer at the time, but once the decision was made I was more than happy to give Ratts my support & the reality is he has been achieving improvement, either in competitiveness or actual ladder position since his appointment. This season has not gone as planned, but I'm yet to be convinced that sacking the coach & the subsequent settling in time for a new coach, is the answer. We won't see instant success with a Malthouse, Roos, whoever. It doesn't work that way.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't have recruited Judd? If so, you are arguing for continued mediocrity, not just on the field but also off the field. Judd not only brought professionalism to the playing group, but also brought back some corporate credibility to the club. No-one wanted to be associated with our club before Judd arrived. Our levels of sponsorship were lower than even the permanently tragic North Melbourne. If you think we have wasted millions on Judd, then it is painfully obvious that you are just attempting to white-ant our club, perhaps wanting to return to the pre-Pratt era, where certain influential Carlton people were deliberately destabilising our club. I fear some of those people are active again & the likes of Caroline Wilson & Craig Hutchinson are rubbing their hands with anticipation of the 'exclusive' stories they can break about infighting at Carlton.
basil00
All Australian
- Apr 1, 2010
- 786
- 404
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Re: Respect for brett ratten
A lot of 1st and 2nd year coaches in that list. So it's hard to make your mind up on them.
A question for you. When and what results do you think Rattens position will become untenable? Do we give him to the end of the year irrespective of results and ladder position?
A lot of 1st and 2nd year coaches in that list. So it's hard to make your mind up on them.
A question for you. When and what results do you think Rattens position will become untenable? Do we give him to the end of the year irrespective of results and ladder position?
Re: Respect for brett ratten
Look, Pagan was stiff, no doubt about that, not saying he could have been the one, but dear god, our list.
You goto Judd and yet you sidestep 3 I have directly mentioned, see what I mean about accountability. Judd has been great, now open your eyes and be honest as to the rest.
ODN, there is no plan, its not just a coach its a system, leaderhip and direction from the top, recruiting assistance coaches and head coach. It works as one with a common goal, weak links are removed.
Look, Pagan was stiff, no doubt about that, not saying he could have been the one, but dear god, our list.
You goto Judd and yet you sidestep 3 I have directly mentioned, see what I mean about accountability. Judd has been great, now open your eyes and be honest as to the rest.
ODN, there is no plan, its not just a coach its a system, leaderhip and direction from the top, recruiting assistance coaches and head coach. It works as one with a common goal, weak links are removed.
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
- Moderator
- #296
Re: Respect for brett ratten
Pretty much.
Our next coach will be in the gun from day one too, in the eyes of some because some will always prefer somebody else.
Some posters predict gloom and doom from the very beginning knowing that winning flags is bloody hard to do and the odds are strongly in their favour they will be proven correct. It doesn't mean they had insight that others do not have, and if they do get something wrong, they will hold on to hope that something goes wrong again so they can return to point one.
Let's face it folks, if you were that damn astute, you would be in the industry and drawing a decent wage from it. All of us are mere dart throwers looking for an opportunity to appear that we have the answers.
Pretty much.
Our next coach will be in the gun from day one too, in the eyes of some because some will always prefer somebody else.
Some posters predict gloom and doom from the very beginning knowing that winning flags is bloody hard to do and the odds are strongly in their favour they will be proven correct. It doesn't mean they had insight that others do not have, and if they do get something wrong, they will hold on to hope that something goes wrong again so they can return to point one.
Let's face it folks, if you were that damn astute, you would be in the industry and drawing a decent wage from it. All of us are mere dart throwers looking for an opportunity to appear that we have the answers.
John Worsfold is a phenomenal coach. There's no way known he won't be snapped up instantly. Took WC from 14th to 8th in his first season, won them a premiership. Yeah, he struggled for a few years there, but is it any surprise with the departures and injuries they had?
Managed to completely turn around the team. 15th, 11th, 16th in 08-10, before launching them into the top 4 last year. They're first on the ladder this year despite injuries to key personnel. Their depth players seem to know exactly what's expected of them, while ours flounder.
Probably lucky for him he wasn't appointed senior coach post Parkin given the state of our list but I'd love to have him coaching the club now.
Managed to completely turn around the team. 15th, 11th, 16th in 08-10, before launching them into the top 4 last year. They're first on the ladder this year despite injuries to key personnel. Their depth players seem to know exactly what's expected of them, while ours flounder.
Probably lucky for him he wasn't appointed senior coach post Parkin given the state of our list but I'd love to have him coaching the club now.
Re: Time to go Ratts
As much as I love Mick and everything he has done for us, his biggest "failure"- for lack of a better word was that he never had a PLAN B.
His Plan A was very good and predictable in that everyone knew it inside and out and it was drilled into the playing group to maintain that discipline.
When Plan A was not working, there was no possibility of changing it up because the playing group knew nothing else other than to maintain the discipline and stick to the structures. It was very rigid but I guess Mick also had the personnel who had the mental capacity to not waver from Plan A even when things looked bad or going downhill.
Obviously everyone knows that his Plan A revolves around strict usage of the boundary only with little to zero usage of the centre corridor simply because of his belief that "the boundary line is your friend"- rightly or wrongly.
I'm not certain a team like Carlton would have the discipline to adhere to such a rigid and disciplined structure. You guys have alot of skilled, pacy types who enjoy the freedom of space, rather than being stuck and confined to one area of the ground where space is limited and contested footy is premium, with a strong focus on stoppages.
Would be interesting to see if he would go around again at another club if another club came calling.
I like Ratten, but I cant see us going further with him. Much rather a coach like Malthouse, who has a Plan B, Plan A even,
As much as I love Mick and everything he has done for us, his biggest "failure"- for lack of a better word was that he never had a PLAN B.
His Plan A was very good and predictable in that everyone knew it inside and out and it was drilled into the playing group to maintain that discipline.
When Plan A was not working, there was no possibility of changing it up because the playing group knew nothing else other than to maintain the discipline and stick to the structures. It was very rigid but I guess Mick also had the personnel who had the mental capacity to not waver from Plan A even when things looked bad or going downhill.
Obviously everyone knows that his Plan A revolves around strict usage of the boundary only with little to zero usage of the centre corridor simply because of his belief that "the boundary line is your friend"- rightly or wrongly.
I'm not certain a team like Carlton would have the discipline to adhere to such a rigid and disciplined structure. You guys have alot of skilled, pacy types who enjoy the freedom of space, rather than being stuck and confined to one area of the ground where space is limited and contested footy is premium, with a strong focus on stoppages.
Would be interesting to see if he would go around again at another club if another club came calling.
Re: Time to go Ratts
Yeah, the ignorance of the footy community is quite amusing at times. Remember back in 09/early 2010 Collingwood supporter's bemoaning Malthouse's lack of a plan B. Now, he's the solution to our one dimensional gameplan.
Though having said that, he had a very evident gameplan that was obvious to all. Something that Ratten has never really had.
Yeah, the ignorance of the footy community is quite amusing at times. Remember back in 09/early 2010 Collingwood supporter's bemoaning Malthouse's lack of a plan B. Now, he's the solution to our one dimensional gameplan.
Though having said that, he had a very evident gameplan that was obvious to all. Something that Ratten has never really had.
- Banned
- #300
Re: Respect for brett ratten
Ross Lyon was supposed to be a huge loss for the Saints. They'd be pretty damn happy with Watters doing more for less money.
Criticising coaching appointments is as easy as criticising recruiters.
I guess we need to go out and get someone like Neeld who was taught by Malthouse, yet has still been labelled by the media and BF experts as the wrong choice. Shame he didn't outcoach Essendon's trillion dollar coaching panel on the smell of an oily rag.
Ross Lyon was supposed to be a huge loss for the Saints. They'd be pretty damn happy with Watters doing more for less money.
Criticising coaching appointments is as easy as criticising recruiters.
- Status